Thomas Lane-i/c mule trains gallipoli

[charlie962]

On 03/05/2021 at 12:56, chris marshall said:

he told me he was i/c involved with the mules re supplies

Would that be mules at Gallipoli ?

The 13th Divisional Signal Company certainly re-equipped with mules at Port Said after theyd been evacuated from Gallipoli and they will have used them in Mesopotamia subsequently.

 

The 13th Div Signal Co were still in Mespot March 1919 so that would fit with 53910 being on an AVL.

[michaeldr]

If the suggestion of the 13^th Division is correct, then the story of landing at W Beach would be possible in early July,

and the later story of an incident involving "Australian cavalry" could well be a reference to members of the Australian Light Horse (fighting dismounted at this time), while the 13^th Division were at Anzac in August

[charlie962]

4 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

If the suggestion of the 13^th Division is correct,

But we do need to provide a better family link between the man at Horsedge St and Chadderton.

 

 

[michaeldr]

Indeed so, Charlie

[charlie962]

 

11 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

Indeed so, Charlie

 I meant to add that I think you are agreeing that nothing on the Military side rules him out, so far!

Charlie

 

(the cat walked across the keyboard as I was typing)

[chris marshall]

many thanks for all your interest and info

incredibly impressed

as to horsedge court/st not come across this before

thomas lane birth cert has in 1887born at  2 holland st ,radcliffe

marriage to bertha smith in 1911 has them at13 rhodes st,presume  oldham(not written on cert just 13 rhodes st)

1939 register has him  living at 129 burnley lane chadderton,oldham

 

will contact oldham historical research group

will get bertha lane birth cert(2nd daughter of thomas and bertha lane-born 1912)-thomas occupation?

the driver aspect-never known him to drive,never had a car in civvy

will check 1911 census

thanks again

b r

chris m

many thanks for all your interest and info

incredibly impressed

as to horsedge court/st not come across this before

thomas lane birth cert has in 1887born at  2 holland st ,radcliffe

marriage to bertha smith in 1911 has them at13 rhodes st,presume  oldham(not written on cert just 13 rhodes st)

1939 register has him  living at 129 burnley lane chadderton,oldham

 

will contact oldham historical research group

will get bertha lane birth cert(2nd daughter of thomas and bertha lane-born 1912)-thomas occupation?

the driver aspect-never known him to drive,never had a car in civvy

will check 1911 census

thanks again

b r

chris m

many thanks for all your interest and info

incredibly impressed

as to horsedge court/st not come across this before

thomas lane birth cert has in 1887born at  2 holland st ,radcliffe

marriage to bertha smith in 1911 has them at13 rhodes st,presume  oldham(not written on cert just 13 rhodes st)

1939 register has him  living at 129 burnley lane chadderton,oldham

 

will contact oldham historical research group

will get bertha lane birth cert(2nd daughter of thomas and bertha lane-born 1912)-thomas occupation?

the driver aspect-never known him to drive,never had a car in civvy

will check 1911 census

thanks again

b r

chris m

[jay dubaya]

I’m impressed that you’ve responded in triplicate 

[chris marshall]

trigger happy!

[Guest]

Michael,

 

I have a number of Aussie Light horsemen who were attached to HQ as mounted Despatch riders from Anzac to Suvla.

 

From what I read they were on horses not mules.

 

S.B

[michaeldr]

11 hours ago, charlie962 said:

I think you are agreeing that nothing on the Military side rules him out, so far!

Charlie

Correct - it would probably have been more helpful had my opening "If" been in bold caps

 

regards

Michael

 

[charlie962]

14 hours ago, chris marshall said:

the driver aspect-never known him to drive,never had a car in civvy

Driver here means 'driving' horses or mules rather than motor transport. Similar term used in the Artillery and Army Service Corps but relatively rare in RE.

 

13 Div Sig Co had horses and mules. They left their horses behind (at Mudros) for that first brief 'visit' in July 1915 but presumably took them the following month.

Edited 5 May , 2021 by charlie962

[chris marshall]

thanks for correction

chris m

[chris marshall]

i have been looking at medal cards for thomas lane

will there be anything on the record to show if the person was in gallipoli

would there be a note of a special/different medal for gallipoli?

i noticed some had france noted on them

thanks

chris

also if he was i/c mules would that mean he was in army service corps perhaps

and if so perhaps why when they were looking for a runner/no regular one available/that was why he was given the job

just thoughts

chris m

[PRC]

19 minutes ago, chris marshall said:

will there be anything on the record to show if the person was in gallipoli

 

There were no campaign medals or clasps. The first Theatre of War entry, (France, Gallipoli, etc) as well as date of first entry was a potential guide as to whether a man received the 1914 Star or the 1914/15 Star. But for those who went overseas to a Theatre of War after the 31st December 1915 that was irrelevant. Bear in mind the final evacuation of Gallipoli didn't take place until January 1916, so in theory it could be possible for a man to arrive in Gallipoli after the 31st December 1915, but that has to be a very small group. The overwhelming majority of those who served at Gallipoli will qualify for the 1914/15 Star. Further caveat - some men will have Egypt shown as the first Theatre of War, even though the first Theatre they actually saw combat in was Gallipoli. In my experience it seems to be a particular problem when the man concerned transferred subsequently  into one of the Corps - Engineers, Medical, Service, Machine Gun, Labour, etc.

 

Some of the MiC's will therefore show Gallipoli, others (2b) Balkans - which is also Gallipoli -  and others (3) Egypt. Even the latter are worth investigating further.

 

1 hour ago, chris marshall said:

also if he was i/c mules would that mean he was in army service corps perhaps

 

You are possibly looking at a couple of scenarios here. If you are talking a mule train then the man in charge is likely to be a senior N.C.O. serving with the likes of the Zion Mule Corps.

Those would be unlikely to be just standing around and in a position to be sent as a runner, although I have no expertise or specialist knowledge in this area.

 

What I suspect you have here is a man in charge of some \ all of the mules of an Infantry Battalion Transport Section.These would spend most of their time to the rear while the Battalion was in the front line, although the mules could be used to ferry up ammunition at night and bring food and water. The mule handler would therefore have to know the position of his battalion and how to find it in the dark, as well as the positions of Supply Dumps. Such a man kicking his heels in the Transport lines during daylight might well have been requisitioned as a runner

 

Other units such as the Engineers, Medical and Artillery may have had cause to have similar Transport section, although in the case of the latter two these the mules are more likely to be handled by the Army Service Corps assigned to the unit.

 

Speculation on my part but worth bearing in mind.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[chris marshall]

many thanks to everyone who has postedon my gfatherthomas lane-much appreciated

peter/old sweats mentioned artillery but no idea of this until...

someone mentioned absent voters list,another thought was a birth cert

so got the birth cert of my aunt/youngest daughter of thomas lane-born november 1914

a result- his occupation was down as Royal Horse Artillery!(cotton spinner in brackets below,which i knew)-a very big surprise

 

from the long long trail it seems the XV brigade of the RHA were part of the 29th division( mostly lancashire regts) at gallipoli landing at cape helles on 27 may 1915

which seems to fit

so searching on

again many thanks for all the info/ideas posted

best regards

chris marshall

[jay dubaya]

The two RFA drivers I mentioned earlier are L/17666 overseas 25th December 1915 and 10665 overseas 14th July 1915, both shown as (3) Egypt. The only Thomas Lane with the RHA (service no. 206262) I can find on the MICs has a middle initial A and was overseas post 31st December 1915.