Could you identify these uniforms for me please

[Alexwfc99]

[FROGSMILE]

Picture 1 is a soldier of the Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby) Regiment probably with his family.

 

Picture 2 an [edit] Australian Imperial Force (AIF) soldier (notice the different design of his jacket) standing at left, and two British Army soldiers at right and centre, all of unknown regiments.

 

Picture 3 is a sergeant from a Rifles styled regiment (nothing else to reveal which one) marked out by his black buttons and wearing what appears to be the ribbon of a 1914 Star.  It suggests the photo was taken in 1918, or early 1919.

 

Photo of jacket courtesy of Australian war memorial.

 

 

Edited 7 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[jay dubaya]

The man seated in 2nd image is the same man in 3rd image promoted to Sergeant.

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

Not AEF - AIF (Australian Imperial Force).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[Alexwfc99]

16 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Picture 1 is a soldier of the Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby) Regiment probably with his family.

 

Picture 2 an Australian Expeditionary Force (AEF) soldier (notice the different design of his jacket) standing at left, and two British Army soldiers at right and centre, all of unknown regiments.

 

Picture 3 is a sergeant from a Rifles styled regiment (nothing else to reveal which one) marked out by his black buttons and wearing what appears to be the ribbon of a 1914 Star.  It suggests the photo was taken in 1918, or early 1919.

 

Photo of jacket courtesy of Australian war memorial.

 

 

Thanks for this mate! The sgt is my great great grandad he was in the krrc then rifle brigade in 1917, I thought the first one might’ve been him when he first joined in 1902 for the Staffordshire regiment but I was wrong so thanks for that mate! And interesting he had a picture with and Australian! He has one with a sailor I think as well I will find it for you! 

Just now, jay dubaya said:

The man seated in 2nd image is the same man in 3rd image promoted to Sergeant.

Yeah that’s right I should’ve made that clear at the start

[Matlock1418]

Hi Alex,

Welcome to GWF

 

This post/thread is potentially soon to get deliberately moved by the GWF Moderators to the 'Uniforms, Cap Badges and Insignia' sub-form - but fear not - that will be in your best interest probably as the relevant uniform experts tend to prowl there [including the likes of @Frogsmile who has already posted here!]

 

That said I think the third photo of the serjeant [with the 3 rank chevrons on his sleeves] is also sporting what appears to me to be a 'Star' medal ribbon [can't see a 1914 Rose]

So gives a possible dating of post-Nov. 1917 for a 1914 Star [or post late 1919 when the 1914 Clasp and Rose if/might have been awarded] or post-Dec. 1918 for a 1914-15 Star.

So before British War Medal and Victory Medal were awarded in 1919

So perhaps a real medal expert [not me!] required too!

 

If you care to offer up any possible name(s) then this thread may prove to be even more helpful to you by it remaining here in 'Soldiers and their units'

Good luck.

:-) M

Edit: FS - I inadvertently follow in your wake regarding the medal ribbon!

Edited 7 March , 2021 by Matlock1418
edit

[Alexwfc99]

20 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Picture 1 is a soldier of the Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby) Regiment probably with his family.

 

Picture 2 an Australian Expeditionary Force (AEF) soldier (notice the different design of his jacket) standing at left, and two British Army soldiers at right and centre, all of unknown regiments.

 

Picture 3 is a sergeant from a Rifles styled regiment (nothing else to reveal which one) marked out by his black buttons and wearing what appears to be the ribbon of a 1914 Star.  It suggests the photo was taken in 1918, or early 1919.

 

Photo of jacket courtesy of Australian war memorial.

 

 

 

[Alexwfc99]

2 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Hi Alex,

Welcome to GWF

 

This post/thread is potentially soon to get deliberately moved by the GWF Moderators to the 'Uniforms, Cap Badges and Insignia' sub-form - but fear not - that will be in your best interest probably as the relevant uniform experts tend to prowl there [including the likes of @Frogsmile who has already posted here!]

 

That said I think the third photo of the serjeant [with the 3 rank chevrons on his sleeves] is also sporting what appears to me to be a 'Star' medal ribbon [can't see a 1914 Rose]

So gives a possible dating of post-Nov. 1917 for a 1914 Star [or post late 1919 when the 1914 Clasp and Rose if/might have been awarded] or post-Dec. 1918 for a 1914-15 Star.

So before British War Medal and Victory Medal were awarded in 1919

So perhaps a real medal expert [not me!] required too!

 

If you care to offer up any possible name(s) then this thread may prove to be even more helpful to you by it remaining here in 'Soldiers and their units'

Good luck.

:-) M

Yeah the sgt name is William Ash from willenhall, Walsall! 

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Alexwfc99 said:

Yeah the sgt name is William Ash from willenhall, Walsall! 

To help the chase - Got a number?

:-) M

[Alexwfc99]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

To help the chase - Got a number?

:-) M

Yeah 6450 

[FROGSMILE]

The picture of the sergeant looks as if it might be a father and two sons or an older brother with two younger, uncle with nephews, etc.  Family of some sort.  Both of the soldiers are in a Rifle regiment, as you can see from the black buttons.

I don’t believe the silver rosette to which Matlock refers was issued with the medal ribbon initially, I seem to recall it was a later addition to distinguish the 1914 Star from the 1914-1915 Star when the ribbon only was worn.

Edited 7 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

8 minutes ago, Alexwfc99 said:

Yeah 6450 

William ASH = OK that seems a 1914 star [without a clasp & rose] - According to his MIC

:-) M

Edited 7 March , 2021 by Matlock1418
addition

[FROGSMILE]

12 minutes ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear All,

Not AEF - AIF (Australian Imperial Force).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Slip of the mind Kim, I will edit.

[Matlock1418]

William ASH = The BWM & VM Medal Roll shows he was also, earlier 4743, 1 KRRC.

As does the 1914 Star Roll as a Rifleman, pre-RB

:-) M

Edited 7 March , 2021 by Matlock1418
added detail

[Alexwfc99]

2 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

The BWM & VM Meals Roll shows he was also, earlier 4743, 1KRRC.

:-) M

That’s right yeah he joined 3bn south Staffordshire regiment in 1902 as well so I don’t know how he ended up in the rifles? 

[FROGSMILE]

20 minutes ago, Alexwfc99 said:

Thanks for this mate! The sgt is my great great grandad he was in the krrc then rifle brigade in 1917, I thought the first one might’ve been him when he first joined in 1902 for the Staffordshire regiment but I was wrong so thanks for that mate! And interesting he had a picture with and Australian! He has one with a sailor I think as well I will find it for you! 

Yeah that’s right I should’ve made that clear at the start

Although black buttons were sometimes in too short a supply to issue, it might be that the photo where he is a seated Corporal relates to earlier service with the South Staffordshire, or some other regiment.  He might not have joined the KRRC / RB until going overseas.  Quite a lot of men were compulsorily transferred on arrival at an infantry base depot (IBD) whose role was to send men where they were needed most.  These earlier units are not usually recorded on medal index cards and historical trace can be lost if the soldiers service record was among the vast bulk that were lost by bomb damage in WW2.

Edited 7 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

4 minutes ago, Alexwfc99 said:

he joined 3bn south Staffordshire regiment in 1902 as well so I don’t know how he ended up in the rifles?

Do you know what terms of service? - He might have been in Reserve

???

4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

He might not have joined the KRRC / RB until going overseas.

Potentially as FS suggests

Perhaps especially if from Reserve.

???

:-)M

Edited 7 March , 2021 by Matlock1418
typo

[Alexwfc99]

Just now, Matlock1418 said:

Do you know what terms of service - He might have been in Reserve

Potentially as FS suggests

Perhaps especially if from Reserve.

???

:-)M

yeah militia I think 6912 was his attestation number 

[Matlock1418]

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

it might be that the photo where he is a seated Corporal might relate to earlier service with the South Staffordshire or some other regiment

Would he have been likely to revert to Rifleman with KRRC?

If from the Reserve??

???

:-) M

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, Alexwfc99 said:

That’s right yeah he joined 3bn south Staffordshire regiment in 1902 as well so I don’t know how he ended up in the rifles? 

He might have completed his terms of service with the South Stafford’s in which case he’d be free to enlist with some other regiment.  Alternatively he might have been sent to a different regiment after being wounded or sick and then recovering.

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Alexwfc99 said:

militia I think 6912

FS - Over to you!

;-) M

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Would he have been likely to revert to Rifleman with KRRC?

If from the Reserve??

???

:-) M

I don’t know enough about his service to say, as the 3rd Militia Battalion (as it then was) has only been mentioned in relation to 1903.  At this stage we don’t know when he re-enlisted, or was mobilised, depending on whether or not his original engagement had expired.

Edited 7 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Alexwfc99]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

He might have completed his terms of service with the South Stafford’s in which case he’d be free to enlist with some other regiment.  Alternatively he might have been sent to a different regiment after being wounded or sick and then recovering.

Would make sense as I have a postcard he sent to my great nan in 1917 from Lichfield barracks which was south staffs hq

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Alexwfc99 said:

I have a postcard he sent to my great nan in 1917 from Lichfield barracks which was south staffs hq

Date???

Hadn't he moved on from the SS by then

?

:-) M

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, Alexwfc99 said:

Would make sense as I have a postcard he sent to my great nan in 1917 from Lichfield barracks which was south staffs hq

Yes, Lichfield was the Depot of both the South Staffordshire and North Staffordshire Regiments. I imagine he perhaps served with the Rifles late in the war and they would then have been responsible for administering the issue of his medals.  Unless his service record has survived or his operational units are listed in his Medal Roll entry it will be very difficult to trace the precise timing of his movements between units.

Edited 7 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE