1/5th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders Diary

[CSMMo]

A few years ago, I was gifted a hand written diary from a good friend in Scotland who has since passed on. I accepted it gratefully, but have not had time to peruse it until now (I've retired!). I set about transcribing it and find it enthralling. It starts on mobilization, early assignments and training, the voyage to Egypt, then Lemnos and, finally, he is in the thick of it. You can imagine the shock of his first charge to take Turkish trenches (12 July) and the privations so normal on Gallipoli.

There are some conundrums, however. The diary stops abruptly with the notation "1st Jany. 1916" and the rest of the book is blank.  There is no place I have yet found (30 of 74 pages transcribed so far) where I see the name of the author. He is well spoken (written), has a brother in the unit (C Coy.), is under Col (Lt. Col?) Darrach and Major Stewart (I glimpsed a "Major Brown" in an as yet un-transcribed page) and there is a clipping from some newspaper or magazine of a photo (1920's?) of "Hamilton's Guard of Honor" formed up to greet F.M. Haig with two X's perhaps denoting the author?  All are in civilian clothes wearing their medals.

With great respect for the acumen of the folks who are this forum - Any suggestions?

Mike Morrison

[Guest]

Hi Mike- Would that Father Christmas brought me such treasures-Ah well, in my dreams.A couple of comments:

 

   The diary is likely to stop because of the evacuation from Gallipoli- though Long Long Trail only dates this from 8th January 1916.

 

1)The odds are that he survived - 1/5th only have one casualty recorded as a fatality between 31st December 1915 and mid-Jan 1916- and that is a Private G.Smith who died at Pieta, Malta.  Unable to say thus far whether there were any wounded and who they were.

 

2) Odds are that he is an officer, given the restrictions on ORs keeping diaries- Your description of the notebook with its pages and even more blanks suggests this strongly. But is there anything you have read that suggest/confirms whether he is officer or OR??? That would shorten the list of runners and riders very considerably.

 

3)  A scan of the pic. would help- I am not one but some of the medal collectors on GWF are so good they can spot someone's service record down as far as yesterday's breakfast cereal just by looking at the gongs.

 

4) Can be narrowed a bit further by comparing the diary with the 1/5 War Diary- which is at The National Archives here in England but which has been digitised though only available through Ancestry:

WO 95/4321

 

Edited 1 February , 2021 by Guest

[CSMMo]

Great suggestions.. Thank you. Yes, I'm a lucky man. This came from the same man (the late Commander Ian Hamilton, Retired RN) who gave me General Hamilton's (no relation - I checked!) Gallipoli Diary signed to "Freddy" with a clipping of the book review pasted inside as well.  He had wonderful stories of his service in the RN.

(1) Thank you for that info. At one point, after an attempt, with the HLI and others (he surmises KOSB), to seize three trench lines he describes the battalion's losses thusly, "our casualties were over half of the 980"

(2) The author's spelling and vocabulary indicate a decent education, and he seems to know names of places they go to on their journey.  A lot of that knowledge may well have been because a lot of the content had to be written after the fact.  Duties, though ("Digging..." several times), indicate a Private's work. Remember, they weren't supposed to have cameras, yet there is a wealth of photos from all fronts.

(3) Attached - 

(4) Great suggestion I hadn't thought of.  I'm on it!

 

Mike

 

 

Edited 3 February , 2021 by CSMMo

[Guest]

The pic........ If you could just get him to move 6 inches to his right so we can see his medals.........  

 

  It does tend to OR- the front row don't have any medals to indicate an officer-just the usual Pip,Squeak and Wilfreds-the one at the right end may have a MM but the way it droops could also be South Africa with bars.  But an ex-officer in the rear row on guard for Doug-even when out of the army? 

 

[michaeldr]

14 hours ago, CSMMo said:

The diary stops abruptly with the notation "1st Jany. 1916" and the rest of the book is blank.  There is no place I have yet found (30 of 74 pages transcribed so far) where I see the name of the author. He is well spoken (written), has a brother in the unit (C Coy.), is under Col (Lt. Col?) Darrach and Major Stewart (I glimpsed a "Major Brown" in an as yet un-transcribed page)

 

He was probably/possibly with Captain Brown, Second-Lieutenants Deas & McGilvray, Lieutenant Whetter (RAMC) and 204 other ranks who were evacuated to Mudros on 31st December 1915

Darrach = Lieutenant-Colonel D. Darroch

Stewart is probably the second in command Major R A Clapperton-Stewart

Brown is probably 'D' Company Lieutenant R Brown (others in D Company mentioned as Capt R F McKirdy & Lt J E McGlashan)

Is this the same Brown mentioned previously (31 Dec 1915) as a Captain?????????

 

Details from Westlake's 'British Regiments at Gallipoli'

Edited 2 February , 2021 by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Lieutenant-Colonel D. Darroch

 

This could well be him - Duncan Darroch (1868–1923), 6th of Gourock, Renfrewshire, Lord of the Barony of Gourock

as the 1/5th A & S H were the Renfrewshire Battalion

edit to add: from the 52nd Div History - "Lt-Col. Duncan Darroch was watching the consolidation, when a sniper shot him, wounding him very severely near the shoulder." And a footnote gives that he "never recovered from this wound, although he lingered on for nearly eight years until he died from its effects." He was wounded 5.30 pm 12th July 1915

 

Edited 2 February , 2021 by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

1 hour ago, michaeldr said:

Stewart is probably the second in command Major R A Clapperton-Stewart

 

see http://pandorawreckancestors.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/RACS-1915.png

[from http://pandorawreckancestors.net/blog/page/2/]

[michaeldr]

2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Brown is probably 'D' Company Lieutenant R Brown (others in D Company mentioned as Capt R F McKirdy & Lt J E McGlashan)

Is this the same Brown mentioned previously (31 Dec 1915) as a Captain?????????

 

 

The 52nd Div History also notes that after the wounding of Lt-Col Darroch, Maj Clapperton-Stewart, Lt-Col B H H Mathew-Lannowe (invalided 23 Nov), Maj J Agnew (wounded 8th Dec), Lt-Col F Lyle (wounded 8th Dec) and the death of Maj P M'L Thomson (KiA 24th Dec)

"The command fell for a while on the shoulders of a young officer, Major R Brown." 

[CSMMo]

A little bit from our anonymous author about LTC Darroch - "The bombardment was at its height, I could see nothing ahead but thick smoke & the shells bursting – whiz – went past my ear but I was all right – the M.G. fire from the Turks was terrific, but we didn’t falter. On we went like madmen – I lost my head completely, but remember falling into the third line of trenches captured from the Turk – picked my self up – I had lost my helmet.  The heat was at its height - The sweating was running out of me - No time to lose – preparations were immediately commenced with to consolidate our positions– we were a mixed lot I was amongst HLI & our own boys – there stood the old Colonel as fresh as a cucumber – giving instructions – He was the only officer in our trench"

Then - "A cry pierced the air – word ran along the trench that we were to retire – unfortunate – the wounded would be left to the mercy of the Turks – a smoke cloud enveloped us as we jumped the parados, but the truth came to us.  Our colonel shouted – no retire – Advance! – We plucked up courage & prepared to meet the onslaught – we shouted as only Scots can shout & moved forward. Chasing the Turks, taking another trench which was well consolidated – there I met my brother – all was well –"  (These entries are part of an extensive entry from "12/7/15")

And then this - "14/7/15 – Reported myself back to Major Stewart who was acting C.O. Col. Darroch having been wounded"

 

4 hours ago, michaeldr said:

 

This could well be him - Duncan Darroch (1868–1923), 6th of Gourock, Renfrewshire, Lord of the Barony of Gourock

as the 1/5th A & S H were the Renfrewshire Battalion

edit to add: from the 52nd Div History - "Lt-Col. Duncan Darroch was watching the consolidation, when a sniper shot him, wounding him very severely near the shoulder." And a footnote gives that he "never recovered from this wound, although he lingered on for nearly eight years until he died from its effects." He was wounded 5.30 pm 12th July 1915

 

I feel confident that you are right. See excerpts below.

[CSMMo]

5 hours ago, michaeldr said:

 

He was probably/possibly with Captain Brown, Second-Lieutenants Deas & McGilvray, Lieutenant Whetter (RAMC) and 204 other ranks who were evacuated to Mudros on 31st December 1915

Darrach = Lieutenant-Colonel D. Darroch

Stewart is probably the second in command Major R A Clapperton-Stewart

Brown is probably 'D' Company Lieutenant R Brown (others in D Company mentioned as Capt R F McKirdy & Lt J E McGlashan)

Is this the same Brown mentioned previously (31 Dec 1915) as a Captain?????????

 

Details from Westlake's 'British Regiments at Gallipoli'

From the diary: "Good News’ – Battalion is formed into 4 coys. Instead of 8 – E. & F. Coy forming “C” Coy. – Battn. Under orders to move – Leave Greenock & the excited people on bright day in the beginning of May 1915 & entrain for Dundee – Billeted in Poorhouse Dundee for one week – Thence to Dunfermline & join the 157 Infy. Bde."

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, CSMMo said:

Billeted in Poorhouse Dundee

   Stacks the odds to Other Rank.

And looks like a tedious exercise  of going through the Medal Roll to see which names  come up more than once and with "2B" as theatre.  As this is a 1915 Star matter, it may be better to zap the A and S 1915 Roll as being a bit shorter.  You may notice that a large number of Scottish surnames begin with the letter "M"............welcome to the whacky world of Scottish genealogy!

 

   

[CSMMo]

a large number of Scottish surnames begin with the letter "M"............welcome to the whacky world of Scottish genealogy!

 

   

Tell me about it! I'm second generation away from Scotland, my name is Michael McKim Morrison. Going back in my family there are Archibald's and Daniel's going way back when Malcolm takes over!

Suggestions as to where might one find the A and S Roll?

 

Mike 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, CSMMo said:

Tell me about it! I'm second generation away from Scotland, my name is Michael McKim Morrison. Going back in my family there are Archibald's and Daniel's going way back when Malcolm takes over!

Suggestions as to where might one find the A and S Roll?

 

Mike 

 

   Should be on Ancestry

[CSMMo]

Finally found his name. He talks about a couple of days at "the Ambulance" with fever, then, "after reporting to the O. in C. pat myself on the back on hearing him say – Thomson! You will remain here for a day or so until the Battn. comes out of the “line”."

So there should be two Thomsons in C Company, 1/5th A. & S. H., probably Privates.  Too much digging and being told off for fatigue duties to be otherwise.

I can't find unit rosters on Ancestry.  They make it difficult to find them!

 

Mike Morrison

[Guest]

Hi Mike.

     Hooray!   At least that spares you the horrors of Mc and Mac in Scottish family history.  Unfortunately, the Thomsons are not far behind- I speak with authority as that is my surname (spelt differently) .  The Medal Rolls at The National Archives give a tally of 404  "Thomsons" of the A and S during the war-  but it is not all bad news as it includes officers and those with "Thomson" as a middle name.  There are 3 Thomson A and S fatalities of the Great War of the 5th Bn, on CWGC-inc. one who died at Mudros in 1915-so an outside edge that it is his brother (Though he might have mentioned something like that in his diary)

   Medal Rolls?   Find a name-Other Rank preferably-of the A and S- shove it into Ancestry on Medal Rolls-then just go backwards and forwards through the film to see what that roll contains- there is a strapline to do so at the bottom of the screen. No point trying to zap Ancestry direct for a roll- be there to the end of time.  I do not know if a Medal Roll has a consistent method of organisation but it had to be organised somehow and there may-just may- be a sequence per battalion.  Your work is halved for the 1915 Star as half or more medal card holders of the Great War came after the 1915 Star.  It should narrow down very greatly by looking at "Date of Entry" into a theatre of war  and, of course, which theatre- 1/5 A and S were the only battalion at Gallipoli, so "2B" will save a lot of work as well as the landing date.

   Trying to find 2 different Thomsons at the same time stirred something in my memory that this was a problem from somewhere else- Of course, the Thomson Twins in Herge's "Tintin"!!

 

Good luck!

 

Mike T.

[clk]

Hi Mike,

 

Going along with Guest

 

On 01/02/2021 at 22:16, CSMMo said:

He...has a brother in the unit (C Coy.)

 

If his brother used the same surname, you might be able to narrow it down to a few surnames. I think that it would be quite a bit of work though, with no guarantee of a positive outcome. For example, 1935 Patrick Docherty (1/5th Bn -KiA 12.7.1915. CWGC link). On the 14/15 Star roll his dis-embarkment date is given as 1.6.1915, in theatre (3). I think that the date is incorrect, as that's the date that the Battalion left Devonport, and the theatre code for Egypt (3) is used because they stopped off there 'en route' to Gallipoli.

 

Image sourced from the Long Long Trail

 

So, presuming that all the men from the Battalion are typed up in the same way, in my example Patrick Docherty and a Thomas Docherty might have been brothers.

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

Regards

Chris

[CSMMo]

Found an interesting resource called Soldiers of Inverclyde and is an alphabetized list of area soldiers who were mentioned and/or whose photos were published in the Port Glasgow and Greenock area newspapers from 1900-1918.  https://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/assets/attach/5132/Intimations-Military-1914-1918.pdf Copyright is held by Inverclyde Libraries. Museums and Archives.  ALSO, found out his younger brother was promoted to Sergeant on 19/10/15. Slowly getting closer to an identification of Private Thomson,1/5th A&SH.

[clk]

Hi Mike,

 

13 hours ago, CSMMo said:

Slowly getting closer to an identification of Private Thomson,1/5th A&SH.

 

From the 14/15 Star roll, the contenders I saw seem to be:

 

1822 (renumbered to 200387) Archie Murray - Has service papers (including a handwritten letter). Father, Archibald

2045 (renumbered to 200507) David - No other info found

1714 (renumbered to 200319) David - Has service papers. Father, Dugald of 7 Dellingburn Street, Greenock

1560 Hugh (DoW 18.9.1915) - Has service papers. Father, Robert; brother John

1452 John - Has attestation page. Nothing else found

1142 Robert, a sergeant (renumbered to S/30093) - Nothing else found

1679 Robert (renumbered to 200295) - Has some service papers (including some handwriting). Father, Dugald of 7 Dellingburn Street, Greenock

1762 Robert (renumbered to 200350) - Has some service papers. NoK Duncan (struck through), Miss J Thomson

 

Regards

Chris

 

[CSMMo]

Thanks Chris.  That narrows it down tremendously.  There seem to be a couple of contenders there.  The search goes on!

Mike

[CSMMo]

I'm 95% sure I've identified our diarist. Thanks to Chris (clk),  michaeldr and Ancestry,  He is David Thomson 1714/200319, who survived Gallipoli, Egypt and France, was promoted Sergeant and awarded the Meritorious Service Medal and the Distinguished Conduct Medal (for incidents in France).  His younger brother (who was 17 when he attested) was Robert 1679 who was invalided to Southampton with Typhoid (Enteric Fever) and was shuttled around to a couple of other hospitals before rejoining his regiment and finishing out the war. Thanks to all for your suggestions.  The Forum comes through as always.

Now that I have finished the first draft transcription (70 hand written pages, 21 typed), I have to figure out how to format it and present it. His battle descriptions as well as descriptions of the privations of Gallipoli, the call-up, early assignments and training, voyage(s) which ended up at Gallipoli are riveting. Could it be that they were the first kilted soldiers the Turks saw?

Many thanks,

 

Mike

[MaureenE]

I wrote a previous GWF post "Upload your transcriptions to Archive.org (Internet Archive)" when I came across a diary/memoir on Archive.org

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/230450-upload-your-transcriptions-to-archiveorg-internet-archive/?tab=comments#comment-2292808

 

Cheers

Maureen

[CSMMo]

Thanks Maureen.  Looks interesting.

 

[CSMMo]

An update - The Gallipolian published Part One with Part Two to come in the next edition.

Finding interested descendants would be the icing on the cake for me.  Otherwise, it's going to Stirling Castle if they want it.

Mike Morrison

[McLean Museum]

Hi there. My name is Vincent Gillen. I work at the McLean Museum in Greenock and have written a book about the 5th Argyll's and am webmaster for inverclydeww1.org

The museum would love to have the diary if Stirling decline. There is so little in the way of such material in the McLean. Thanks for posting

[CSMMo]

Vincent,

I am so sorry, but the diary and the transcription are in the hands of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders Museum at Stirling Castle.  If you message me your email, I will send you my transcription of it, or you can find it serialized in two recent editions of "The Gallipolean", Journal of the Gallipoli Society. I do wish that I had known of your organization when I was trying to find descendants (no luck) or local interest.

Regards,

Mike Morrison