GROBBY Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 I AM RESEARCHING A PTE HYAM LAZARUS SR NO 557351 OF THE 1001 st LABOUR COMPANY AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE SERVICE HISTORY OF THE UNIT I.E IF THEY WENT TO FRANCE AND WHEN OR ANY OTHER HISTORY THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 30 minutes ago, GROBBY said: I AM RESEARCHING A PTE HYAM LAZARUS SR NO 557351 OF THE 1001 st LABOUR COMPANY AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE SERVICE HISTORY OF THE UNIT I.E IF THEY WENT TO FRANCE AND WHEN OR ANY OTHER HISTORY THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP Always a bit difficult with enquiries such as this to know if you are wanting details on just the unit, or the man too ?? However - Pte Hyman LAZARUS 557351 LC certainly went to France as his MIC shows France because no theatre added and as no date it was after 31/12/1915 Got the British War Medal & Victory Medal pair [always assuming there isn't also another Medal Roll or MIC for a 1914 or 1914-15 Star lurking somewhere!] Image courtesy of Ancestry - with thanks. The best book on the LC generally is Starling and Lee's "No Labour - No Battle" but I do not have it to hand. Got to say 1001st Labour Coy seems a very high number to me ??? What was your source? Could be worth a check. :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GROBBY Posted 19 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2021 HI THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY .I AM MOSTLY AFTER THE UNIT AS THE NUMBER DOES SEEM HIGH BUT I GOT THIS FROM THE BRITISH JEWRY BOOK OF HONOR 1914-1920 AND THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF THIS UNIT AND THE 1002nd AND I CANNOT FIND ANYTHING ON THESE UNITS . THE SER NO IS ALSO FROM THE MEDAL RECORD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GROBBY Posted 19 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2021 HYAM LAZARUS JOINED THE LABOUR CORPS ON 30/6/16 AND TRANSFERED TO THE RFC ON 22/5/17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Just a further observation - and I don't yet know how to resolve but there are a number of H. LAZARUS with 1914 or 1914-15 Medal Rolls. It's not inconceivable that he was discharged from an earlier unit to later re-enlist/be conscripted as a less fit man into the Labour Corps. ;-/ M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GROBBY said: HYAM LAZARUS JOINED THE LABOUR CORPS ON 30/6/16 AND TRANSFERED TO THE RFC ON 22/5/17 If I have found the right man / this is the same man then he appears to have a number of 87557 RFC/RAF records should be available from National Archives via Find My Past Here is a starter from the NA/FMP: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11751207 :-) M Edited 19 January , 2021 by Matlock1418 correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, GROBBY said: HYAM LAZARUS JOINED THE LABOUR CORPS ON 30/6/16 AND TRANSFERED TO THE RFC ON 22/5/17 37 Squadron, then 153 Squadron just before the Armistice, Auxiliary rigger, born Sebastopol, cabinet maker by trade. Next of kin, Bessie, nee Kartowski, 52 Downs Park Road, Hackney. Children Lisa, b1924 and Leon G, b 1930. Edited 19 January , 2021 by sadbrewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GROBBY Posted 19 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2021 THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP . I HAVE ALL HIS RFC/RAF INFORMATION IT WAS HIS ARMY INFORMATION I REALY NEED . I ALWAYS HAVE TROUBLE WITH THAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 I have checked in 'No Labour No Battle', 1001 Company was formed in April 1918 of Russian Jews from the East end of London, so he must have been in a different LC Coy. Searching near numbers with service records may give an indication of which LC Coy he joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 ACI 414 of 19th April 1918 announce the formation of the Labour battalions and companies composed of Russian subjects. Men recruited into these units could not be transferred to any other unit without authority from the War Office. Recruits were generally of poor physique, predominantly from occupations such as tailoring and not used to heavy physical labour. Many spoke either little or poor English and this presented further difficulties for non Jewish officers. Due to extended training it was June 1918 before the first company (1001st) arrived in France, three more companies 1021st, 1002nd and 1022nd arrived in June, August and December. This amounted to around 2000 men who were put to work clearing the battlefields and creating the cemeteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 (edited) 1001 Company was a 'Russian Company' formed in 1917 from Russian subjects living in Britain, mainly Jews living in the East End of London. They were mostly placed in the Labour Corps. In April 1918, these men were formed into labour battalions and companies. Training was extended to include improving physique as most were from occupations like tailoring, in addition, many spoke little of no English. It was not until June that the first company (1001) arrived in France, followed by more thereafter. They were particularly employed in clear battlefields and create cemeteries following the Armistice. 1001 arrived at Havre on 10 June 1918 and was sent to Marieux in the VI Corps area on 15 June to replace 149 Company Chinese Labour Corps. The company was found to be unfit, without military knowledge and with 'unsatisfactory' officers, and could only move '30 cubic/feet/man/day'. Capt JH Rogers from 60 Company was posted in to instruct on drill and improve discipline and 114 reinforcements arrived in July. Further information is not available, but the company stayed in France until September 1919. Later 'Russian' companies arrived later and were of better quality and better prepared. Derived from: From 'No Labour, No Battle' by John Starling and Ivor Lee, (2009, 2014, Spellmount, Cheltenham). Edited 19 January , 2021 by Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Also 'No Labour No Battle' numbers 555600 to 559100 allocated to Russian companies May to September 1918. Is there a name mix up here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Gents = Handy of you all to have "No Labour - No Battle" to hand when I do not - 1001 was niggling me. 5 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said: Is there a name mix up here? There's the rub = ??? Is RFC/RAF the same man ??? :-/ M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GROBBY Posted 19 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2021 THE HYAM LAZARUS I AM RESEARCHING WAS BORN IN SEBASTOPOL RUSSIA I THINK CAME TO ENGLAND ABOUT 1893/4 JOINED THE ARMY 30/6/17 AND TRANSFERED TO THE RFC 22/5/17 I HAVE A 50 WING WING ORDER DATED 1/12/18 TRANSFERING HIM FROM 37SQDN ATT 44 SQDN TO 153 SQDN . I KNOW THERE IS A HARRY LAZARUS IN THE RFC AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER H LAZARUS OR THAT HE WAS NOT IN 1001 LONG LONG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Confusion has crept in Grobby, which Hyman Lazarus are you researching, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 1 minute ago, jay dubaya said: Confusion has crept in Grobby, which Hyman Lazarus are you researching, Grobby has consistently referred to Hyam, the MIC posted by Matlock1418 is HYMAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Thanks GB, so the 1001st is the red herring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GROBBY Posted 19 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2021 MY PROBLEM IS I CANNOT FIND ANY ARMY SERVICE HISTORY FOR HYAM LAZARUS BUT CAN FOR HYRAM LAZARUS . HYAM LAZARUS WAS A RUSSIAN JEW AND LIVED IN WHITECHAPEL LONDON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 50 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said: Grobby has consistently referred to Hyam, the MIC posted by Matlock1418 is HYMAN. Have i thrown curved ball? Not sure I have improved things. ??? But Grobby has not contradicted until recently - perhaps an old error or an recent error on my part [I acknowledge I missed the different spelling of the forename] ??? Such things do happen then and now! :-/ That said the names and 557351 would seem to sit in the Russian companies block 1 hour ago, Gardenerbill said: 555600 to 559100 allocated to Russian companies May to September 1918 So would seem to fit a Russian immigrant So how did Grobby get the 1001 Coy of his OP? I can't read the RFC/RAF file on FMP so ??? 47 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: so the 1001st is the red herring I can't see the reported British Jewry Book of Honour either so ??? Grobby - Where did the 1001 come from? ??? :-/ M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 (edited) 557351 Hyman Lazarus's Service Record is on Ancestry. It states that he lived in Stepney (but was registered as an alien in Whitechapel), was born in 1879 in Russia and had been in England for 12 years. So since 1891. His English was poor. He married Sarah Goodman in 1915 and had one child; Kate. He was enlisted into the '1001 Russian' of the Labour Corps on 10 May 18 and arrived there on 09 Jun 18 at Sevenoaks. He travelled to Havre from Southampton 09/10 Jun 18. 0n 12 Dec 18, he went to hospital in the 'field'. He had a medical inspection at La Targette (north of Arras - undated, but I think on discharge as he claimed no disability). Here is an extract with more detail: Acknown Edited 19 January , 2021 by Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Well done Acknown, so it was an issue of Hyman and Hyam... confirms what we’ve already said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 10 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: Well done Acknown, so it was an issue of Hyman and Hyam... confirms what we’ve already said Not so fast....from the Western Daily Express March 1st, 1927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Rigger (Aero) 87557 Hyam Lazarus gives his NoK as his wife Bessie Lazarus of 52 Downs Park Road, Hackney. Marriage on 5th July 1916 in Whitechapel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 1 hour ago, Acknown said: 557351 Hyman Lazarus's Service Record is on Ancestry. Only been able to dip in/out today so hadn't got that far. So 557351 was in 1001 LC But ... 5 minutes ago, sadbrewer said: Hmmm? Hyam Lazarus - husband of Beatrice Goodman - a puzzling entry but I suppose few Lazeruses to be notified so in name of Goodman instead. So now got Beatrice - v- Sarah ??? Also have a query over RFC/RAF man being the same - has anyone else seen his FMP RFC/RAF record? I can't access. Have we been chasing after the wrong man? 2 hours ago, GROBBY said: MY PROBLEM IS I CANNOT FIND ANY ARMY SERVICE HISTORY FOR HYAM LAZARUS BUT CAN FOR HYRAM LAZARUS And ... Hyram Lazarus ... That's another name! :-/ M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 I think they are both called Hyam Lazarus ( or a misspelling of it it) the RFC one married Bessie Kartowski....the other married Beatrice Goodman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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