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Remembered Today:

Medal for Gallantry awarded to 176 Cpl SH Ferrier 10th Light Horse Regiment AIF for Hill 60 Gallipoli action


gilly100

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On Friday 4 December 2020 in the Commonwealth of Australia Gazette C2020G00981 under Gallantry & Distinguished Awards, No.176 Cpl Sutton Henry Ferrier was awarded the Medal for Gallantry, some 105 years after his participation in the battle for Hill 60 Gallipoli in August 1915.

 

"For acts of gallantry in action in hazardous circumstances during an assault by 10th Light Horse Regiment on Hill 60 at Gallipoli, Turkey, on 29 August 1915."

 

Fantastic news for the Ferrier family on this belated recognition. The presentation will be made at a later date. Great work by all those who lobbied for this worthy recognition. Ferrier was at the forefront of the fighting with his officer Hugo Throssell VC, and while there was the VC, four DCM's and 14 mentions in despatches conferred on 10th Light Horse members for this fighting, Ferrier was overlooked. He lost an arm and subsequently died of his wounds on a hospital ship over a week later and was buried at sea. More to come on this in due course.

 

Ian

SH Ferrier.jpg

Edited by gilly100
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For our overseas members, the Medal of Gallantry is a modern Australian medal that was never supposed to be issued in retrospect of 1991, but numerous recipients are now being recognised for past service.

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The DCM can no longer be awarded, and the MG has been retrospectively awarded for a good few years now, including for Vietnam and WW2. Ferrier should have been awarded a DCM when the others got theirs. I hope to write an article on all this in the future.

Ian

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Gilly,

 

Sorry mate but post dating awards is not the way we should do things. But it now seams we are doing it here by the award of a VC to Sheen and now this?

 

FERRIER    Sutton Henry    176    Pte    10 LHR    A Sqn C Troop to Cpl 8-15 (Lt Throsell's Troop at the Nek) WIA 29-8-15 shoulder bomb reported R/arm blown off mentioned in Lt Throssell's report in attack at Hill 60 & MID - for his actions in Lt Throssell's Troop at Kaiajik Aghala (Hill 60) 28/29-8-15 (G) DoW 9-9-15 at sea died on HS "Devanha" buried 16 miles SSW of Cape Carrivier Portugal NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli brother Roy 4 LHR

 

Sid was already awarded for his actions during that fight that cost him his life?

 

I surpose now the old chestnut about about a VC for Simpson will again come out?

 

Sorry but I am not a fan of this form of history, even if we fell history should be rewritten in this post war period?

 

But I am not going to stop it, so well done Sid, not that it mattered to you, and only a feel good for some one else?

 

S.B

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Steve

 

Ferrier got nothing and a perusal in our book will show the strong feeling felt about it from within the Regiment among those those that were there, in particular Tom Stanley DCM. While you raise the negative aspects of retrospective awards, if you read the extensive submissions that went in on Ferrier's behalf and the manner in which he missed out, you might think otherwise. Considering the 10th LH had only just been badly cut up at the Nek, it was certainly their opportunity to square the ledger only three weeks later.

 

As for the others retrospectively awarded, I have not read the submissions so will not comment further. As for the last half of your final comment, I fail to understand why you would bother writing it. I am pleased for the Ferrier family, for the current A Sqdn 10th LH Regt and those others intimately involved in bringing this to pass.

 

Ian

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Ian, well done to you and others involved in this.  I look forward to reading your article on it.  Your last sentence sums up the thread brilliantly.

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4 hours ago, gilly100 said:

I am pleased for the Ferrier family, for the current A Sqdn 10th LH Regt and those others intimately involved in bringing this to pass.

 

Totally agree

 

Details can be seen here https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2020G00981

[thanks to Bern for this link]

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Mates,

 

Sorry you all seam to like the idea of up grading to awards won at such a high cost, because they got it wrong way back then.

 

While we can agree they do not always get it right or that the awards should be higher, we are stuck with what history and the other gave us.

 

To play with this is fraught with danger, this question has been asked and answered many times on this site.

 

Yes, we can say that the family is happy that his award was up graded, but what, his award was not up graded?

 

Because there was no award called the MG back then, so we invented a modern medal to replace the MID given?

 

Are you now going to award all others mentioned in the fight by 10th LHR, like a unit citation, which could now be passed on to all other units in the AIF?

 

As I said this type of history is fraught with danger

 

Yes, some may like the idea of up grading awards, while others do not, I mentioned I didn't for many reasons?

 

But to award the medal, because the family liked it, is not a reason even if a new citation is now made up to reflect the new award.

 

But I also wait for the Citation to be shown, to see how they worded it?

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker
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Steve

 

NO award was given/made/gazetted to Ferrier at anytime until this one, only recommendations put forward from several sources via several paths of command. The citation for the MG is already up in the first post.

 

Ian

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On 07/12/2020 at 05:37, stevebecker said:

......Sid was already awarded for his actions during that fight that cost him his life?

 

I surpose now the old chestnut about about a VC for Simpson will again come out?

 

Sorry but I am not a fan of this form of history, even if we fell history should be rewritten in this post war period?

 

But I am not going to stop it, so well done Sid, not that it mattered to you, and only a feel good for some one else?

 

S.B

 

The awards tribunal made it clear to me that chestnut wasn't going back on the fire if they could help it as retrospective VC's would be opening a pandora's box, to which I agreed. Given their attitude, it was a surprise when Teddy Sheean got his retro VC. But then again, like those awarded back in the day, consistency does not seem a consideration. BTW, I wasn't advocating for a VC for Simpson, merely providing the overwhelming evidence that he was recommended for one by his unit, and, when questioned on the subject, happily dispelling some of the ridiculous 'evidence' provided by a notorious and incredibly disingenuous recently released book on the subject. Of course Teddy deserved one, as did Simpson. As did Charlie Stokes at Villers Bretonneaux....etc.

 

Anyway, hats off to Sid Ferrier, a brave man, and all the other brave men, whose actions were recognised or went unacknowledged by the system. No doubt their comrades knew who the heroes were.

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https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2020G00981

This is the link already given in post No.7 above, and it works

There you will find the GG's announcement

 

 

Government House

                                                                                                                    CANBERRA  ACT  2600

                                                                                                                        4 December 2020

 

The Governor-General is pleased to announce the following awards:

 

MEDAL FOR GALLANTRY (MG)

 

Australian Army

 

Driver William Thomas DOOLAN

For acts of gallantry in action in hazardous circumstances as part of 2/21st Battalion as part of Gull Force at Kudamati village, on Ambon Island on 1 February 1942.

 

Corporal Sutton Henry FERRIER

For acts of gallantry in hazardous circumstances during an assault by 10th Light Horse Regiment on Hill 60 at Gallipoli, Turkey, on 29 August 1915.

 

Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Howard JENSEN (Retd)

For acts of gallantry in action in hazardous circumstances as the officer commanding the 1st Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment's mortar line during the Battle for Fire Support Base Coral in Vietnam on 13 May 1968.

 

 

COMMENDATION FOR GALLANTRY

 

Australian Army

 

Private Frederick Norman SCHAEFER

For acts of gallantry in action following capture by the Imperial Japanese Army on 26 March 1945 until his execution as a result of an escape attempt on 30 April 1945.

 

Corporal Kenneth STEWART

For acts of gallantry in action following capture by the Imperial Japanese Army in March 1942 until his execution as a result of an escape attempt in about April 1942.

 

 

 

COMMENDATION FOR DISTINGUISHED SERVICE

 

Australian Army

 

Lance Corporal Harold Arthur BAILEY

For distinguished performance of duty in warlike operations as an operator on the main switchboard with Sparrow Force Headquarters on 19 and 20 February 1942.

 

By His Excellency’s Command

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  • gilly100 changed the title to Medal for Gallantry awarded to 176 Cpl SH Ferrier 10th Light Horse Regiment AIF for Hill 60 Gallipoli action

Mates,

 

Don't get me wrong here, as my GF served and fought with the 10th ALHR during that war, and I like the awards given to those brave men.

 

I just don't like the idea of post dating and up grading awards, even as Michael so kindly shown many were needed.

 

I am only saying when you open that box, it opens to many who like to use it for more then honorable reasons?

 

Sheehan 's medal was up graded and like Sid had been given a MID for those actions, I have not looked at those other men.

 

Stay safe

 

S.B

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Steve

 

Can you quote the London and Commonwealth Gazettes for Ferrier's award, presumably a MID. 

 

Ian 

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Mate,

 

Now you got me checking my old work on the ALH.

 

I see my mistake, that he was recom, but not awarded

 

Thanks again, always good to double check


S.B

 

 

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Retrospective awards made for actions fought over 100 years ago are never a good idea - it makes a mockery of the entire honours and awards system.

 

If a man didn't receive an award at the time then there was a reason for it - 

 

I also find it incredible that people over 100 years after the event, feel better placed to determine a mans level of gallantry/ service than the panel of officers / witnesses did at the time.

 

Aside from that, what possible pride is there to gain from an award only made due to relentless lobbying?

 

What about the hundreds if not thousands of citations that exist on the AWM site that never progressed an an actual award - are they all going to be reviewed to see if mistakes were made?

 

Teddy Sheean originally received a Mention In Despatches for his actions, well my Great Grandfather got an MC in the First World War though I know he was recommended for a DSO, should I start lobbying because I feel my ancestor should have received more?

 

I will never be on board with this - this is just my opinion.

 

Ta

 

 

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57 minutes ago, RedCoat said:

Retrospective awards made for actions fought over 100 years ago are never a good idea - it makes a mockery of the entire honours and awards system.

 

If a man didn't receive an award at the time then there was a reason for it - 

 

I also find it incredible that people over 100 years after the event, feel better placed to determine a mans level of gallantry/ service than the panel of officers / witnesses did at the time.

 

Aside from that, what possible pride is there to gain from an award only made due to relentless lobbying?

 

What about the hundreds if not thousands of citations that exist on the AWM site that never progressed an an actual award - are they all going to be reviewed to see if mistakes were made?

 

Teddy Sheean originally received a Mention In Despatches for his actions, well my Great Grandfather got an MC in the First World War though I know he was recommended for a DSO, should I start lobbying because I feel my ancestor should have received more?

 

I will never be on board with this - this is just my opinion.

 

Ta

 

 

Having read the reasons around how Ferrier missed out in the submission, and given the overwhelming support from his comrades present with him regarding his actions on the day, his grievous wounding and subsequent death at sea, I am pleased it went through. Glad your G/Gfather got recognised as well. He was not missed. The system will never be perfect, but Ferrier's case was a distinct oversight.

Ian

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  • 4 months later...

Yesterday, 20 April 2021, the Medal for Gallantry was presented to Stuart Ferrier, great nephew of 'Sid' Ferrier 10th Light Horse Regiment, some 105 years + after his involvement in the fighting at Hill 60 on 29 August 1915. Major Geoff Craggs, former CO of A Squadron 10th Light Horse, based in Perth, was present at the small ceremony.

The 10th Light Horse are now not only notable as the only Light Horse regiment that has a Victoria Cross recipient in Hugo Throssell, it now has, from the same action, a MG recipient. Photo attached. Hoping to get an article on this submitted to The Gallipoli Association in due course.

Apologies if photo not upright, it won't let me when I submit.

Ian

2105161131_StuartFerrierGeoffCraggsMGpresentation.jpg.c7167d94e9b9602f1e88507d6277bb4e.jpg

 

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Excellent news.
I took the liberty of spinning it around

image.png.29166a34e0b94647f35b7212ebe85c9d.png


 

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Mate,

 

Can I add my good wishes.

 

Major Geoff, I knew him during my time, 1970's -80's and 90's as a Cpl with my Regt and made Sgt late 80's.

 

If I didn't read his name I would have missed it, he's changed like me.

 

Times have changed, so I must also.

 

Cheers


S.B

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6 hours ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

 

Can I add my good wishes.

 

Major Geoff, I knew him during my time, 1970's -80's and 90's as a Cpl with my Regt and made Sgt late 80's.

 

If I didn't read his name I would have missed it, he's changed like me.

 

Times have changed, so I must also.

 

Cheers


S.B

No worries Steve. I was chuffed to have our local rag The West Australian run the story on this belated award in the Saturday 24 April edition as well. I will knock up a more detailed one for The Gallipoli Assn, and intend to include Ferrier's story in our next updated edition of Gallipoli to Tripoli - History of the 10th Light Horse Regt AIF, a book you were so helpful in assisting with, amongst others who frequent this website.

 

Ian

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7 hours ago, gilly100 said:

I will knock up a more detailed one for The Gallipoli Assn

 

Ian,

I look forward to seeing that in The Gallipolian

All the best 

Michael

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Found this by accident, though very familiar with the history.  SH (Sid) Ferrier was my great-uncle, brother of my grandmother, Wilhelmina Esther Campbell (nee Ferrier) 1886-1982. Good to see belated recognition, given all the efforts made at the time. Family legend from my grandmother was that 'only officers got VCs'. I run a website honesthistory.net.au . Look out also for The Honest History Book (2017). People may or may not have seen the attached photograph from one of the London papers. Throssell is on the right. Well done, WA Ferriers in pushing for this.

David Stephens 

PS I kind of understand the arguments about posthumous awards. I guess it leads to the question of whether awards previously granted can later be taken away?

89926.png.81ec85dc1d50cb2cd8997fb4bd246c47.png

 

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Thanks for posting that image David.  Not one I had seen before. Quite a story is Sid Ferrier. Remembered by many.

 

Ian

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Ian, thanks for your piece in The West. I'm trying to track down Stuart Ferrier. Is he WA or Vic?  Pic above was from I think London Daily Tele in about Dec 1915 at the time the push was on for Sid to get VC also. There are some letters in his online service record.

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22 hours ago, Honest History said:

Ian, thanks for your piece in The West. I'm trying to track down Stuart Ferrier. Is he WA or Vic?  Pic above was from I think London Daily Tele in about Dec 1915 at the time the push was on for Sid to get VC also. There are some letters in his online service record.

David

 

If you private message me I can give you some more contact details. He is in Victoria, I believe very close to where Sid was raised.

 

Ian

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