FCdr Cecil Douglas Morrison RNAS

[FionaBam]

34 minutes ago, dawrana said:

Fiona

Sadly, no. Later in the War, the military had taken over flight training. All our "tickets" are an ancestry - available at many Public Libraries, if you do not have a subscription. I have checked for you, and no Bambridge, I'm afraid. A good site to check is http://www.airhistory.org.uk/ where there are spreadsheets for RFC/RNAS/RAF personnel in WWI, listing all the documents that have been identified for each person - including Bambridge F E A. Good luck!

And yes, enquiries for the Royal Aero Club Trust can be directed to me via the Royal Aero Club Collection web-site (a good source of available information about our archives) or via the Royal Aero Club web-site itself.

Andrew

Hi Andrew

Thank you very much.

I shall certainly look at that website !

Strange - I thought as Bam went to Crystal Palace for his Probationary Flight training that he was trained by RNAS. This was for balloon training there. Funnily enough I used to live in Crystal Palace and for many years have followed information about the old Palace and only last week found out about what Bam did there. Including some photos of the airship training. If you or anyone would like more information on this subject I strongly recommend looking at the Crystal Palace Foundation website for their WW1 section of books posters and resources 

Copyright to Crystal Palace Foundation and Anerley Remembered Facebook group for the attached print outs of some photos they hold

Thank you too for details of Aero Club.I shall look there too

Fiona 

Thanks too Andrew for trying Ancestry. Luckily I do have membership for them .

Cheers

Fiona 

[horatio2]

16 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

I thought as Bam went to Crystal Palace for his Probationary Flight training that he was trained by RNAS. This was for balloon training there.

Crystal Palace provided new RNAS officers with basic naval officer training (in the case of Bambridge, just two weeks) before they were sent off for flying training. No "flight training" was carried out at Crystal Palace. I very much doubt that this time was spent on balloon training either which, for RNAS balloonatics, was mainly at Roehampton.

[FionaBam]

3 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Crystal Palace provided new RNAS officers with basic naval officer training (in the case of Bambridge, just two weeks) before they were sent off for flying training. No "flight training" was carried out at Crystal Palace. I very much doubt that this time was spent on balloon training either which, for RNAS balloonatics, was mainly at Roehampton.

Thank you very much Horatio. Yes 2 weeks would be a bit ridiculous for balloon training. It was the following photos and information which led me to believe this.Balloon sheds at very bottom and in middle of the image of the old CPalace

Looks like some balloon training going on there .

Printed off from Anerley Remembered Facebook so copyright Mike Fzio . 

You can find more about RNAS in Crystal Palace at Crystal Palace Foundation website see their WW1 section with all items books posters resources  for sale .I await a few of these! 

Thank you

Fiona 

[FionaBam]

6 hours ago, dawrana said:

Fiona

Sadly, no. Later in the War, the military had taken over flight training. All our "tickets" are an ancestry - available at many Public Libraries, if you do not have a subscription. I have checked for you, and no Bambridge, I'm afraid. A good site to check is http://www.airhistory.org.uk/ where there are spreadsheets for RFC/RNAS/RAF personnel in WWI, listing all the documents that have been identified for each person - including Bambridge F E A. Good luck!

And yes, enquiries for the Royal Aero Club Trust can be directed to me via the Royal Aero Club Collection web-site (a good source of available information about our archives) or via the Royal Aero Club web-site itself.

Andrew

Yey!so I have now got those golden reference numbers for the  files at Kew taken from the spreadsheet ( what extraordinary work the guy did to create and fill these spreadsheets)on the air history.org website.

Getting closer.....

Thank you again Andrew 

Fiona 

[mickdavis]

On 14/01/2022 at 15:13, MikeW said:

Bruce,

thanks for posting his ADM273 record - somehow I totally missed the note about his crash.

 

The Air Defence of Britain 1914 - 1918 by Cole and Cheesman has the following:

17/18 August, 1915 (night)

Target: London

Enemy Forces: Navy Zeppelins L10, L11, L13 (returned early), L14 (returned early)

Results: 10 Killed, 48 Injured, £30,750 damage

Defence Sorties: 6

 

RNAS Chelmsford ........Caudron G3 serial 1596    FSL CD Morrison   22.45 - 23.55   Crashed landing

There were also sorties from Yarmouth and Holt.

In the narrative, it states: ........ the Caudrons from Chelmsford were not airborne until 45 minutes after L10 had passed almost overhead en route for London. This unexplained lapse was fortuitously redeemed, since although Wenke was then 20 miles away, he was starting a homeward flight that would again take him over Chelmsford. Reports vary as to whether Morrison saw the Zeppelin, but at all events he came back after 70 minutes to a heavy landing which detonated three of his four Hale bombs. The flimsy Caudron was blown to pieces, Morrison being badly burned about the face and arms and injured in a foot...............

 

Royal Naval Aircraft Serials and Units doesn't add any more for Caudron 1596 other than to state that it arrived at Chelmsford on the 13/7/15, stating the obvious that it was deleted on 1/9/15, and that Morrison was badly wounded.

 

Can't help with the school other than to say that schools that played Rugby "tended" to be a bit more "selective" than schools that had soccer teams - have I stated that tactfully enough? How many private and Public schools were there in the Manchester area? It's always possible that he was sent away - I have one pilot from the north that attended Sherborne school just up the road from me "down south".

 

I was hoping that another "forumite" might comment on the uniforms photograph.

 

Mike

The attached come from an album in the possession of my friend Bob Jones, who obtains images for the CCI Archive. The RNAS station at Chelmsford (Widford) lost a pair of Cuadrons on the night of 17/18.8.1915. 1596, Morrison's machine, is shown in 'before and after' images. 1593 suffered less severe damage, but still appears to have been a write-off

[FionaBam]

On 01/12/2020 at 15:20, MikeW said:

I am looking for a photo of Cecil Douglas Morrison, his RAeC ticket number is 1289, gained at Chingford on 31st May 1915 - sadly its one of the tickets where the photograph must have dropped off many years ago.

 

Morrison was a very ineffectual Flight Commander of No.9 Squadron RNAS from February to May 1917, but he was on the staff at Chingford from October 15 to February 16, and then on the staff of Cranwell for the rest of 1916. I'm thinking he must be in several of those formal "course" photographs so beloved of Cranwell.

 

Failing that tack, does anyone know what senior school he attended? 

 

Mike

 

 

Ah formal course photos at Cranwell!  Thank you I shall seek this from Cranwell for  my grandfather 

Fiona 

[dawrana]

BruceM

To return to Cecil Douglas Morrison for a moment - I would love to hear back from you about your grandfather. If you, or anyone else, would like to do this off-blog, I can be reached at: archives at royalaeroclubtrust (all one word) dot org

If, as an extra measure, you post here that you have done that, I can make sure that your message hasn't somehow gone into a Spam folder!

[FionaBam]

On 02/12/2020 at 19:29, MikeW said:

Hi Geoff,

 

yes still available from Amazon! If all else fails I still have 1 spare copy. A lot has come to light since that was published - more photographic evidence that the stripy Camels persisted well into 210 Squadron RAF days, also more photographs of pilots - I feel a reissue coming on - No not really, Naval 9 is taking up all my time.

 

I have not had a lot of satisfaction with the Cranwell Museum but it's a good suggestion, I will try them again - if the museum is administered by the RAF it might be open in theory, though I believe Hendon isn't open at the moment.

 

Cheers

Mike

Excuse me butting in here but do I gather you write books about RNAS Squadrons? Am researching my grandfather s time in RNAS 2 Squadron. Based Dunkirk. Have his service record , and had some great information from people on this site earlier this year including it not lbeing likely he would be mentioned in Communiques due to the mature of the squadrons work - reconnaissance, photography,support for other planes. However as many have pointed out the pilots and their gunners are " unsung heroes ".

Bam my grandfather had an extraordinary plane crash which he was sworn to secrecy not to reveal the truth about and he didnt as far as I know till 5 months before he died in 1965 - a letter to him from  Colonel Preston ( I think ) at the Royal Aero  Club refers to this in a P.S.

See photo below

 

 

The true story is documented in a personal history on the internet about Bam's gunner and how he died.

Anyway do hope you will be writing about RNAS 2 ( 1917- 1918) and I can share it all with you !

Regards 

Fiona Bambridge 

 

[MikeW]

Hello Fiona,

as you say "unsung heros" - unfortunately, there are several reasons for that:

1)     very few photographs seem to exist of the aircraft and crews, certainly not enough to fill a book.

2)     the "market" for books about reconnaissance, spotting, and photographic missions is just not there - it has never been considered "glamourous" - the publishers are just not interested. It's very difficult these days to get them interested in books about Fighter Squadrons, I had great difficulty getting a publisher to commit 20 years ago, and had to eventually go with an American publisher, they have printed 1 book on an RNAS scout squadron and one book on an RNAS scout squadron that was reborn as a bomber squadron - these days they are not even interested in a third book covering another scout squadron. I suppose if I just regurgitated the same old stuff about German fighter squadrons there would a huge market.

I think the best we can hope for is a piece on 2 Squadron RNAS in a learned journal such as Cross & Cockade, I would certainly be willing to collaborate with you to get something published there.

Have a great Christmas,

Mike

[FionaBam]

Hello Mike

Thank you for explaining the market problems. Fine line though that " giving the public want they want " and the public not knowing what they might want if they had a chance to see it. Photos though....yes a real problem.

But plenty of thrills and spills in scouting  : highly secret scouting visits pre- major ops. Escorting planes through murder valley flight paths.

Thanks too- wow! I will try and send you the URL  link to the article about Bams crash.not very good at IT stuff

 

Thank you and happy Christmas to you .

Regards 

Fiona 

[Matlock1418]

On 14/12/2022 at 20:44, FionaBam said:

Bam my grandfather had an extraordinary plane crash which he was sworn to secrecy not to reveal the truth about and he didnt as far as I know till 5 months before he died in 1965 - a letter to him from  Colonel Preston ( I think ) at the Royal Aero  Club refers to this in a P.S.

Noting the reference to "disability" ...

Frederick Edward Arthur BAMBRIDGE has a spartan pension index card at WFA/Fold3 [for an OAir/Officers Airforce reference - an earlier OA/Officers Army was cancelled] - so I'm still in the dark as to what for and why!  Never mind.

However for you: Refers to 6th Wiltshire Regt and RAF - Gives an address of 90 Holland Pk Av, W 11

M

Edit: Casualty card at RAF Museum StoryVault https://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/7000236410-bambridge-f.e.a seems to offer some potential explanation relating to wounds [?]

Edited 21 December , 2022 by Matlock1418
edit

[FionaBam]

Thank you very much! 

A very helpful lady at RAF Museum sent me this in April actually.  I visited La Panne in Belgium in May where a pioneering hospital was established in WW1.Bam was treated there fortunately for compound fractures of both legs possibly even Xrayed there too.Had a limp for life but was extremely lucky to survive the crash. Lucky for me too of course..

Regards Army disability- yes Bam was indeed in Wiltshire regiment from 1915 when he turned 18 till invalided out in 1916. Hard to believe after trench warfare and being in the bombardiers that he went back for more but I suppose everyone who could was fighting and he had many cousins and Uncles fighting and some already KIA so all the motivation to return was there. Perhaps too he wanted to learn to fly. Schooled and living in Marlborough close to Upavon he would have seen some planes or balloons I guess.

Thanks again!

Regards 

Fiona 

[FionaBam]

On 21/12/2022 at 13:18, FionaBam said:

Hello Mike

Thank you for explaining the market problems. Fine line though that " giving the public want they want " and the public not knowing what they might want if they had a chance to see it. Photos though....yes a real problem.

But plenty of thrills and spills in scouting  : highly secret scouting visits pre- major ops. Escorting planes through murder valley flight paths.

Thanks too- wow! I will try and send you the URL  link to the article about Bams crash.not very good at IT stuff

 

Thank you and happy Christmas to you .

Regards 

Fiona 

http://westberkshirewarmemorials.org.uk/texts/stories/WBP01091S.php

 

At last did it! Link to article about how the young very skilled gunner Harry Lovelock was tragically killed when Bams plane was shot down. The true account of the crash is located next to the photo of the very DH4 they were flying in .

My eternal thanks to James Stewart-Smith and his researcher Andrew White  at classicbattlefieldtours.com who so kindly assisted me .It was Andrew who  uncovered this true story not me.

I shall contact the team at WBWarMemorials who compiled this article asking if they can share with me the sources of their information 

Hope the article is of interest for you and others here 

Regards 

Fiona 

Edited 1 January , 2023 by FionaBam
Had omitted to include credit to researcher

[FionaBam]

On 21/12/2022 at 12:38, MikeW said:

Hello Fiona,

as you say "unsung heros" - unfortunately, there are several reasons for that:

1)     very few photographs seem to exist of the aircraft and crews, certainly not enough to fill a book.

2)     the "market" for books about reconnaissance, spotting, and photographic missions is just not there - it has never been considered "glamourous" - the publishers are just not interested. It's very difficult these days to get them interested in books about Fighter Squadrons, I had great difficulty getting a publisher to commit 20 years ago, and had to eventually go with an American publisher, they have printed 1 book on an RNAS scout squadron and one book on an RNAS scout squadron that was reborn as a bomber squadron - these days they are not even interested in a third book covering another scout squadron. I suppose if I just regurgitated the same old stuff about German fighter squadrons there would a huge market.

I think the best we can hope for is a piece on 2 Squadron RNAS in a learned journal such as Cross & Cockade, I would certainly be willing to collaborate with you to get something published there.

Have a great Christmas,

Mike

https://www.crossandcockade.com/store/Product.asp?cat=51&id=1268

 

My goodness! A new book about the DH2 in WW1 .website says it is not available in Europe. 

Interesting time to write about its successor the DH4....

[FionaBam]

3 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

https://www.crossandcockade.com/store/Product.asp?cat=51&id=1268

 

My goodness! A new book about the DH2 in WW1 .website says it is not available in Europe. 

Interesting time to write about its successor the DH4....

Aha!not available in the EU! At last an advantage .

[nils d]

57 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

https://www.crossandcockade.com/store/Product.asp?cat=51&id=1268

 

 

Interesting time to write about its successor the DH4....

It's been done,  see Air Britain website if they have any left.

[FionaBam]

7 hours ago, nils d said:

It's been done,  see Air Britain website if they have any left.

Thank you Nils!I checked earlier and none available. They might pop up 2nd hand at some point.

Cheers

[MikeW]

Fiona,

 

try Abebooks.co.uk - its a 'sort of' catalogue of Second Hand Book Shops' stock. Load of copies of the DH4/DH9 File available when I looked a minute ago.

 

happy Xmas,

Mike

Edited 24 December , 2022 by MikeW

[FionaBam]

Hi Mike

 

Thank you will do. 

Spent the morning trawling Oxfam book sale WW1. Found some interesting books regards RNAS

"Reconnaissance and Bomber Aircraft of 1914-1918 War" by L.Lamberton 

Price £17.40.

https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/reconnaissance-bomber-aircraft-of-the-1914-1918-war/product/HD_300855062

 

Is this going to help me regards DH4 original pics and RNAS 2?

 

 

Very much liked one collection of a WW1 magazine Illustrated War News price £150 ... ahem...

https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/the-illustrated-war-news-being-a-pictorial-record-of-the-great-war-volume-6-parts-61-72/product/HD_301103973

or

https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/ww-i-the-war-illustrated-a-pictorial-record-of-the-conflict-of-the-nations-complete-set-of-8-vol/product/HD_301034522

 

But better news:  just found one volume digitalisied and hundreds of photos to view there.

https://archive.org/details/nsillustratedwar07londuoft/page/n9/mode/1up

also available at Cairn Library part of Royal Greenwich Museum but struggling to work their website.

is this interesting?

https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/the-flying-spy-a-history-of-g-8-first-edition-by-nick-carr/product/HD_300795611

Happy browsing all!

Thank you and Happy Xmas to you too!

Cheers 

Fiona 

Edited 24 December , 2022 by FionaBam

[wallace2]

On 13/01/2022 at 04:35, BruceM said:

Thanks for the reply Mike. 

Having looked back through grandad's stuff I am afraid I am not going to be very useful re. photos I fear. My grandparents were incredibly secretive and destroyed nearly every record for this lives before their deaths. I have a couple of school pix of him (I think!) and a picture of a group of naval personnel - one of which may be him. I have attached these. I will check with my brother in case he has a pic.

As I said the photo in Flight may be him - would you be able to find out if there was a J.S Morrison? 

Any info you have re. him would be great as I am putting together a brief (by necessity!) biography of him for his grand kids.

Bruce

Grandpi school pix - annotated.pdf 3.41 MB · 42 downloads Unknown group of naval personnel - CDM on right?.pdf 273.35 kB · 46 downloads

Having looked at the group of unknown naval personnel I "feel" that this was taken much later.  The haircuts, the medal ribbons worn by the Instructor (Front and Centre) and the very sharp focus tend towards WW2.  Also the person of interest does not seem to have trained as a Signaller during his Crystal Palace time and the buildings in the background do not seem appropriate the Palace. All supposition, though.