stevenbecker Posted 4 November , 2020 Share Posted 4 November , 2020 Mates, in the book by Wolf he mentions two officers with the 614th Battery at Suvla? I have these with the Battery but no details on when it arrived and what it did? Diesinger Lt Arty officer 16th Corps 1915 att Willmer as CO 614th How Bty (12cm) part 1st Arty Bn at Gallipoli shown commanded the "Ethna Rickmers" during evacuation of Istanbul 1919 1915-19 (not identified) mentioned for his work with Artillery at Kosten Smyrna 5-16 shown in Klaus Wolf's Book Hammer Capt Artillery officer commander 614th Art Bn (Defense Suvla) at Gallipoli 1915- (not identified)? commander Battery with 150 German artillery soldiers shown in Klaus Wolf's Book Sources on Diesinger mention the Battery was a 12cm (120mm) How, which makes it a heavy battery? Any ideas S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 November , 2020 Share Posted 6 November , 2020 Mates, looks like no one has heard of the 614th How Bty sent to Turkey late 1915? If this Battery was indeed a 12cm, then it must be one a a number of older types of 12 cm Kanone C/80 (1880) in Garrison duty, that were formed into Heavy Batteries early in the war? A search of the net finds only my inquiry I must have missed something? S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 15 September , 2023 Share Posted 15 September , 2023 (edited) By the way, here is a brief addition to the Gun-Type from Battery 614, which was in action at Gallipoli. This is neither a standard German 10.5 cm Field-Gun or Howitzer, nor an actual Naval-Gun, but rather a makeshift construction from Krupp that was produced in small numbers. Maybe a reader knows how many of these guns were produced and used in the Battery 614? Some further Details regarding the Battery 614 have been listed here in the GWF: Fußart.Btl. 60 (60th FAR) German https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/271073-fußartbtl-60 60th-far-german/ The official name was: Field cannon, 105 mm, L/50 i.R. (in Räderlafette) The total weight of the circular-shaped bedding (4,640 kg ), carriage and barrel (6,500 kg) was more than 11 tons, and was difficult to handle for mobile warfare. But it was ideal for stationary coastal use, as the circular metal bed ensured much faster and more precise lateral alignment than a field cannon with a box or spreader mount. The range, with additional charge of 21.6 km also offered enough scope for combating of fast-moving sea targets.The disadvantage was that, as can be seen in the photos below, there was no protective shield and therefore no splinter protection. The enlarged version of this improvised Krupp-Carriages was available for discarded 15 cm Navy-Gun-Barrels. These were then also used on the Western Front / Europe. 10.5 cm Krupp Coastal-Gun L/50 on Wheeled-Carriage in Iron-Bedding. Original Source: Mittlere Feldgeschütze - Artillerie des 20. Jahrhunderts Band 2 by Kosar Franz, Page 74 Here again; - as a comparison, the three best photos from the Batterie 614 with the 10.5 cm Coastal-Gun L/50 on Wheeled-Carriage by Gunter Hartnagel. Dardanelles, German artillery battery 614 https://www.flickr.com/photos/39631091@N03/3823130553/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/39631091@N03/3823130077/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/39631091@N03/3823130399/in/photostream/ Holger Edited 15 September , 2023 by Holger Kotthaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 26 November , 2023 Share Posted 26 November , 2023 On 15/09/2023 at 05:34, Holger Kotthaus said: Maybe a reader knows how many of these guns were produced and used in the Battery 614? Holger, I wonder if these are the guns you are looking for? The Mitchell Report [REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE ATTACKS DELIVERED ON AND THE ENEMY DEFENCES OF THE DARDANELLES STRAITS. 1919] lists in Appendix 'A' (p.218) amongst Supplies Received by Turkey from German & Austria Heavy coast gun, 10.5 cm/35 cal., - twelve arrived after Bulgaria declared war [NB: they are not indicated as being forwarded to 5th Army at the Dardanelles (or indeed, to which battery they were sent)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 27 November , 2023 Share Posted 27 November , 2023 From Kraus - Fußartillerie Vol. 1 FuA Battery 614 - Raised on 20.12.1915 from 6 Battery Ersatz Bataillon Fußartillerie Regiment 7. Equipped with 10,5 cm Coastal Guns, arrived in Constantinople 15.02.1916. 10.03.1916 till 02.10.1916 Turkey/Gallipoli 02.10.1916 Guns handed over to the Turks Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 27 November , 2023 Share Posted 27 November , 2023 (edited) On 26/11/2023 at 13:27, michaeldr said: Holger, I wonder if these are the guns you are looking for? The Mitchell Report [REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE ATTACKS DELIVERED ON AND THE ENEMY DEFENCES OF THE DARDANELLES STRAITS. 1919] lists in Appendix 'A' (p.218) amongst Supplies Received by Turkey from German & Austria Heavy coast gun, 10.5 cm/35 cal., - twelve arrived after Bulgaria declared war [NB: they are not indicated as being forwarded to 5th Army at the Dardanelles (or indeed, to which battery they were sent)] Hello Michael, Many thanks for your reference. The term: “Heavy coastal gun, 10.5 cm L/35 cal.” mentioned suggests that this is not the 10,5-cm L/50 version, but one of the ones mentioned, older versions, below. “At the suggestion of the army administration, 30 of the 10,5-cm quick-firing-gun- barrels L/35, which were stationary in fortresses, were now placed in simple wheeled carriages. (see photo 01). This was repeated between late 1916 and July 1917, but 10.5 cm L/35 navy-gun- barrels were used, which were combined with heavy 12 cm mount (see Photo 02). However, this workaround did not prove itself, which resulted in a further conversion. Again, a simple wheel carriage was used, which could also be made mobile by limber. (see photo 03). In October 1918, four batteries with a total of 16 guns of this design were still in use." Photo 01_10,5-cm S.K. L/35 with horizontal thrust-crank-breech on simple wheeled Krupp-Carriage Photo 02_10,5-cm S.K. L/35 with vertical case-block-breech on haevy 12-cm mount Photo 03_10,5-cm S.K. L/35 with vertical-case-block-breechon simple wheeled Krupp-Carriage Regards Holger Edited 27 November , 2023 by Holger Kotthaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 27 November , 2023 Share Posted 27 November , 2023 50 minutes ago, charlie2 said: From Kraus - Fußartillerie Vol. 1 FuA Battery 614 - Raised on 20.12.1915 from 6 Battery Ersatz Bataillon Fußartillerie Regiment 7. Equipped with 10,5 cm Coastal Guns, arrived in Constantinople 15.02.1916. 10.03.1916 till 02.10.1916 Turkey/Gallipoli 02.10.1916 Guns handed over to the Turks Charlie Hello Charlie Thank you also for returning to the topic with your additions. Can you confirm rumors that the battery was set up in Cologne? Probably even just one or two of the 10,5-cm S.K. L/50? Regards Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 27 November , 2023 Share Posted 27 November , 2023 Hello, There's some 12 pages of text and pics in the history of Fußartillerie-Regiment 7 about this unit. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 27 November , 2023 Share Posted 27 November , 2023 57 minutes ago, Holger Kotthaus said: Can you confirm rumors that the battery was set up in Cologne? The rumor is correct, the battery also returned to Cologne after handing over the guns. Kraus isn‘t explicit as to how many guns and their exact type. The Regimental History of FuA Regiment 7 isn‘t available online but an electronic copy can be obtained from https://military-books.lima-city.de/hp23/index.html Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 29 November , 2023 Share Posted 29 November , 2023 On 27/11/2023 at 17:53, Holger Kotthaus said: The term: “Heavy coastal gun, 10.5 cm L/35 cal.” mentioned suggests that this is not the 10,5-cm L/50 version, but one of the ones mentioned, older versions, Holger, The 10,5-cm L/50 version does not appear on the list in the Mitchell Report. Below is a crop of that part of Appendix 'A' which refers to the guns received by Turkey from her allies Germany & Austria. The Mitchell Report dates from 1919 and there must be a doubt as to how complete this list is, as the early date suggests that it was probably based on intelligence gathered from interrogated officers, rather than from a detailed examination of Ottoman script documents held at various ministries. Nevertheless it may be of interest regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 29 November , 2023 Share Posted 29 November , 2023 On 27/11/2023 at 19:33, AOK4 said: Hello, There's some 12 pages of text and pics in the history of Fußartillerie-Regiment 7 about this unit. Jan On 27/11/2023 at 20:02, charlie2 said: The rumor is correct, the battery also returned to Cologne after handing over the guns. Kraus isn‘t explicit as to how many guns and their exact type. The Regimental History of FuA Regiment 7 isn‘t available online but an electronic copy can be obtained from https://military-books.lima-city.de/hp23/index.html Charlie Hello Jan & Charlie many thanks for your further information. I also heard (but not seen) that during the leaving Cologne on 2. February 1916, there was a photo showing two "10-cm-Küstenkanone L/50 In Räderlafette" All other three photos which are linked further up via flickr.com shows only one. Regards Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 29 November , 2023 Share Posted 29 November , 2023 Hello, The book mentions "zwei in Swinemünde ausgebaute 10,5-cm-Küstenkanonen". Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 29 November , 2023 Share Posted 29 November , 2023 7 hours ago, michaeldr said: Holger, The 10,5-cm L/50 version does not appear on the list in the Mitchell Report. Below is a crop of that part of Appendix 'A' which refers to the guns received by Turkey from her allies Germany & Austria. The Mitchell Report dates from 1919 and there must be a doubt as to how complete this list is, as the early date suggests that it was probably based on intelligence gathered from interrogated officers, rather than from a detailed examination of Ottoman script documents held at various ministries. Nevertheless it may be of interest regards Michael Michael, Very very interesting; - thanks I think is No. 10 from top: Coast gun, Q.F., 10 cm/53 cal. - 2 pieces `Our´ Coastal gun Q.F. 10 cm L/50 was not standard, had no nameplate and may have been re-measured. British and German measurements of barrel length differ. Regarding: FuA-Battery 614 and the "10-cm-Küstenkanone L/50 In Räderlafette": Summarized it seems to be, that current status of this very rare artillerie-Type is: only four were produced, two were used at Gallipoli and exact references are rare. "Four (!) barrels of the 10-cm coastal gun L/50 were inserted into Krupp makeshift mounts during the First World War and delivered to the front with a iron bedding. The guns from 1907 had a falling block breech and a constant long barrel return. With this makeshift solution the, the intention is to use surplus artillery equipment from naval stocks as quickly as possible to reinforce the long-range shallow fire." TRANSLATED ORIGINAL SOURCE: Typenkompass, Deutsche Artillerie, Wolfgang Fleischer, MBV 2013, page 53 https://militariafachbuch.com/Typenkompass-Deutsche-Artillerie-1914-1918-Wolfgang-Fleischer Reagrds Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 30 November , 2023 Share Posted 30 November , 2023 (edited) On 29/11/2023 at 15:44, Holger Kotthaus said: Michael, Very very interesting; - thanks I think is No. 10 from top: Coast gun, Q.F., 10 cm/53 cal. - 2 pieces `Our´ Coastal gun Q.F. 10 cm L/50 was not standard, had no nameplate and may have been re-measured. British and German measurements of barrel length differ. I have to add or correct my own statement here. Michael's table shows exactly the gun type that was used in the FuA-Battery 614 at Galipolli. Here the official names differ from the technical details. Official name: 10-cm-Field-or Coast Gun L/50 Technical details: 10,5-cm Coastal Gun L/53,14 Edited 30 November , 2023 by Holger Kotthaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 30 November , 2023 Share Posted 30 November , 2023 (edited) On 29/11/2023 at 12:51, AOK4 said: Hello, The book mentions "zwei in Swinemünde ausgebaute 10,5-cm-Küstenkanonen". Jan Hello Jan, I find your comment very important; - Thanks! Fortifications and coastal batteries - Swinemünde 1848 - 1945 ". . .In the years 1908 to 1911, further battery positions, command and distance measuring stations and infantry bases were built. In 1914 the following fortifications were in place: a) The east battery with six 21cm ring cannons. b) The west battery with seven 21 cm ring cannons. c) The port battery with four 10 cm quick-loading cannons (barrier battery). d) The beach battery with four 15 cm quick-loading cannons L/40 in a disappearing mount. e) The forest battery with six 21 cm coastal mortars. f) The plantation battery of six 21 cm coastal mortars. Batteries c) to f) were built between 1910 and 1913, the others much earlier." Original German Text Source: http://www.festungsbauten.de/D/Swinemuende_Startseite.htm At the beginning of the First World War, the German field- and Foot-Artillery of the Army did not have enough guns for long-range flat fire. The naval guns of the High Seas Fleet and the coastal batteries were more likely to meet these demands for greater range rather, simply because to the greater visibility on sea. The 10,5-cm Q.F Coast Gun L/53,14 was the result of this demand for this caliber size. How many of these long-barreled rapid-fire cannons were produced on stationary naval mounts is currently unknown. After the danger of an enemy landing on the coast of the Baltic Sea at Swinemünde was minimized and the need for mobile guns increased, at least four of these gun barrels were inserted into the already mentioned 'provisional' Krupp wheel mount. With two of these mobile 10,5-cm Q.F. the FuA-Battery 614 was equipped and positioned at the Dardanelles from March to October 1916. Here the links to the original photos. The comparison clearly shows the identical gun breech of the 10.5 cm Q.F. Coastal-Gun with wheels. https://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=307925 https://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=307926 Regards Holger Edited 1 December , 2023 by Holger Kotthaus Adding of informations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 10 December , 2023 Share Posted 10 December , 2023 (edited) UPDATE (Now, far away from the main topic GALLIPOLI) Regarding the origin-source of this gun-type within the fortifications in Swinemünde on the coast of the Baltic Sea, there are a few more additions and updates, with help `from the other side´ As already mentioned in the above contributions, formed four guns of the type: 10,5-cm Q.G.Krupp Coastal Gun L/53,14 on M.P.L.C/1906, the Harbor battery The following sections from lists and drawings with position information, and even floor-layouts and sections confirm the already above mentioned information. Furthermore, the ammunition lists and equipment prove the exact gun type. Original Source: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/d/dc/Swinemünde-Fort-1880.jpg Position of Harbor-Battery with four 10,5-cm Q.G. L/53,14 Most eastern Gun Position No.I of the Harbor- or Barrier-Battery Original Source: [File] COL69-48-1 - Germany https://archives.ungeneva.org/4bs9-mxrm-h8yk/download (All Fortifications at Swinemünde, Drawings and lineups, 161 pages, 207 MB, pdf) Original Source: [File] COL92-71-3 - Batteries List - Gillet https://archives.ungeneva.org/ba4s-a6fc-qp3z/download German Navy - Battery-lists with guns and ammunition overview, 342 pages, 332 MB, pdf) Original Source: No. 18 German Navy (Index and General Remarks) December 1917 https://ncisahistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/No.-18-German-Navy-Index-and-General-Remarks-December-1917.pdf ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ FURTHER SOURCES: Inventar der Festungen in Polen, Von der frühen Neuzeit bis 1918 Hafenbatterie -> Swinemünde (PL): POM (Page 36 - 38) http://www.ingenieurgeograph.de/Publikationen_/Inventar/PL.pdf NCISA History Project & Publications ONI (Among other things: Artillery & Equipment Imperial German Navy) https://ncisahistory.org/history-of-oni-ncis/publications/ Here the general access to this interesting source with many detailed files about (but not only German) armament and equipment of Navy and Army: Inter-Allied Control Commission in Germany between 1923-1930 Sub-sub-series COL56/35 - Germany (11 sub-files) (1927) https://archives.ungeneva.org/e73b-bpcm-4d38 Regards Holger Edited 10 December , 2023 by Holger Kotthaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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