Pte Stephen David Morris: Welch Regiment 45356; Cheshire Regiment 52753

[ss002d6252]

In respect of a nominee the MoP retained the powers to pay the monies to another party if that was necessary.

What I suspect is that the pension claimant was not fit to deal with the pension and so they had an appointee to deal with it for them.

Craig

 

[Sallyjane]

On 25/06/2021 at 17:32, Matlock1418 said:

Magic!  Pure magic!!  ;-)

Actually - not really.

Experience and knowledge of members, commonly with specialist but interlinking interests, plays a big /huge part in the sheer cumulative genius of GWF.  :-)

And lot is out there for free - e.g. MIC from the National Archives [in bw] - And even from normally pay subscription sites - certain items such as MIC [in colour] can be obtained via a free registration.

Also at present, thanks to Covid [never thought I would say that!], many local libraries that have subscriptions to Ancestry and Find My Past have opened up their access for members so rather than just in-library access there is remote access too - for the time being anyway.

The National Archives are also offering free download of many documents you had to pay for previously, such as War Diaries - at present.  You just need a free registration with them.

There is much other free info out there - such as Births & Deaths searches at GRO or at low cost e.g. Soldiers' Wills and Probate at the Probate Office.  Then in some cases other stuff may come up at the London Gazette. Etc., etc.

Etc. lots of other places thanks to the web.  But GWF often brings them together and into the light.

And of course there is the Long Long trail - link at the top of the forum screen.  Lots of info on how to research men and units/ battles etc.

And many members pay for subscription services, of which there are many, too.

I will give one small final plug = for the Western Front Association - as thanks to them the pension index cards were saved, and then so usefully made them available to us to unlock many a mystery [in conjunction with Fold3] https://www.westernfrontassociation.com Membership of WFA is really quite inexpensive [£29pa] for access to pension records and of course WFA has many other benefits and other access to a range of interesting materials = recommended.

:-) M

GWF do a great job - really helpful. I'll check out the libraries. I've looked at the National Archive but find it difficult to navigate. All really interesting though and satisfying when you find some good stuff!!

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

In respect of a nominee the MoP retained the powers to pay the monies to another party if that was necessary.

What I suspect is that the pension claimant was not fit to deal with the pension and so they had an appointee to deal with it for them.

Craig

 

Thanks Craig - ties in with other info about my Great Grandad who we believe had mental health issues.
SJ

[Sallyjane]

On 26/06/2021 at 22:37, BillyH said:

War Diary available to download free if you register with National Archives. Or PM me.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353385

BillyH.

That's great - thanks.

Could you also help with War Diaries for the Welch 13th and 21st Battalions between Dec 1915 and Sep 1916?

Sallyjane

[BillyH]

The 21st Battalion was a Reserve Battalion (home service) and so it doesn't have a war diary.The 13th Battalion is free to download here :

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354159

BillyH.

[kenf48]

On 24/06/2021 at 23:03, Sallyjane said:

       9/12/1915 – Enlisted in Porth – Attested to Army Reserve

·       9/2/1916 – mobilized

·       23/3/1916 – Posted Welch 21^st (#45356)

·       28/6/1916 – Posted – BEF(?) with 13^th Battalion, Welsh Regiment (served in France)

·       1/9/1916 – transferred into Cheshire 11^th Battalion (#52753)

·       8/6/1917 – died of wounds received in action

He did not serve in the field with the 13th Battalion Welsh Regiment but was posted from 38th Infantry Base Depot (IBD) at Etaples to the 11th Battalion Cheshire Regiment on attachment on the 13 July 1916.

He was posted from the 21st (Reserve) Battalion to the 13th Battalion in the UK.  As frequently happened on arrival in France and joining the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) he was posted in theatre from the IBD to where the need was greatest.   He remained on attachment with the 11th Cheshires until formally transferred and renumbered to that Regiment on the 1st September 1916.

The Timeline therefore is:-

9/12/1915 - Attested in Porth under the Derby or Group Scheme and posted to the Army Reserve B. Men were issued with an armlet to show it was their intention to serve in the Army.

9/2/1916  - Called up or mobilised in his Group It's likely he would have done four weeks training at a local Depot before being posted to the Welsh Regiment

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/the-group-scheme-derby-scheme/

23/3/1916 - Posted to B Company 21st (Reserve) Battalion Kinmel Park for further basic training, qualified as a 2nd Class Shot

28/6/1916 - Posted to the BEF, landed at Boulogne then to 38 IBD Etaples, usually by train

29/6/1916 - Arrived at Etaples where men received further training in trench warfare and their physical fitness assessed in what was known as 'The Bull Ring', it was a harsh regime men were only too eager to escape from usually after two weeks.

13/7/1916 - In a draft attached to the 11th Battalion Cheshire Regiment

1/9/1916 - Transferred to the 11th Cheshire Regiment

8/6/1917 - Died of wounds received in action.  The  war diary records the positions held by the 11th Cheshire Regiment were subjected to a heavy artillery bombardment.  During this period in the front line  and the attack on Messines Ridge they suffered the loss of 8 officers and 160 other ranks who became casualties. The full account of losses for the month is on the last page of the diary for July. 

There are also extensive map references.  These maps can be downloaded from the NLS.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464933

28SW shows Lumm Farm mentioned in the Diary. Hints on reading trench maps are on the LLT. The NLS site allows an overlay from Google Maps showing the scene today.

 

 

[Sallyjane]

On 28/06/2021 at 18:19, kenf48 said:

He did not serve in the field with the 13th Battalion Welsh Regiment but was posted from 38th Infantry Base Depot (IBD) at Etaples to the 11th Battalion Cheshire Regiment on attachment on the 13 July 1916.

He was posted from the 21st (Reserve) Battalion to the 13th Battalion in the UK.  As frequently happened on arrival in France and joining the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) he was posted in theatre from the IBD to where the need was greatest.   He remained on attachment with the 11th Cheshires until formally transferred and renumbered to that Regiment on the 1st September 1916.

The Timeline therefore is:-

9/12/1915 - Attested in Porth under the Derby or Group Scheme and posted to the Army Reserve B. Men were issued with an armlet to show it was their intention to serve in the Army.

9/2/1916  - Called up or mobilised in his Group It's likely he would have done four weeks training at a local Depot before being posted to the Welsh Regiment

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/the-group-scheme-derby-scheme/

23/3/1916 - Posted to B Company 21st (Reserve) Battalion Kinmel Park for further basic training, qualified as a 2nd Class Shot

28/6/1916 - Posted to the BEF, landed at Boulogne then to 38 IBD Etaples, usually by train

29/6/1916 - Arrived at Etaples where men received further training in trench warfare and their physical fitness assessed in what was known as 'The Bull Ring', it was a harsh regime men were only too eager to escape from usually after two weeks.

13/7/1916 - In a draft attached to the 11th Battalion Cheshire Regiment

1/9/1916 - Transferred to the 11th Cheshire Regiment

8/6/1917 - Died of wounds received in action.  The  war diary records the positions held by the 11th Cheshire Regiment were subjected to a heavy artillery bombardment.  During this period in the front line  and the attack on Messines Ridge they suffered the loss of 8 officers and 160 other ranks who became casualties. The full account of losses for the month is on the last page of the diary for July. 

There are also extensive map references.  These maps can be downloaded from the NLS.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464933

28SW shows Lumm Farm mentioned in the Diary. Hints on reading trench maps are on the LLT. The NLS site allows an overlay from Google Maps showing the scene today.

 

 

This is great - thanks so much for the info - much appreciated.

Sallyjane

On 28/06/2021 at 16:23, BillyH said:

The 21st Battalion was a Reserve Battalion (home service) and so it doesn't have a war diary.The 13th Battalion is free to download here :

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354159

BillyH.

Thanks for the info.

Sallyjane