Gustrow POW Camp

[MaxD]

William's RAF record is on Findmypast British Royal Air Force, Airmen's service records 1912-1939 Image | findmypast.co.uk

Served in the army Royal Flying Corps from 10 Feb 1916, RAF from 1 Apr 1918, discharged Sep 1920.

What do his army papers that you mention refer to ?  Do they have anoher number?

 

MaxD

[MaxD]

There are a number of Harold Austin records of one sort or another.  What was his place of birth, did be survive the war (I am assuming for the moment he did serve).  Any other details- wife? Father?

 

MaxD

 

 

[MaxD]

These are some of the children of William and Sarah A Austin of Tunstall presumably all born Tunstall.

 

MaxD

[JANET HISCOCK]

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

William's RAF record is on Findmypast British Royal Air Force, Airmen's service records 1912-1939 Image | findmypast.co.uk

Served in the army Royal Flying Corps from 10 Feb 1916, RAF from 1 Apr 1918, discharged Sep 1920.

What do his army papers that you mention refer to ?  Do they have anoher number?

 

MaxD

Will I be able to view this in Ancestry as I am already a member of this but not of Find My Past. Years ago I saved some records to my Ancestry but they are too blurred to read, these were from Fold3 ?? I must have just copied them over and didnt view them or realise that they were illegible at the time. So I do have something but not sure what!

[JANET HISCOCK]

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

These are some of the children of William and Sarah A Austin of Tunstall presumably all born Tunstall.

 

MaxD

Yes my Great Grandparents were William and Sarah Ann Austin. They had eleven children all born in Tunstall but around 1911 they came to live in Oldham Greater Manchester to work in the cotton mills. The sons Sydney (my Grandpa), Josiah, William and Harold would all have enlisted from the Burnley Lane address. Arthur the eldest son was much older that the others and I dont think he served at all but I dont know for definate. 

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

There are a number of Harold Austin records of one sort or another.  What was his place of birth, did be survive the war (I am assuming for the moment he did serve).  Any other details- wife? Father?

 

MaxD

 

 

Harold was born in Tunstall, moved to Oldham but as an adult returned to Tunstall and lived there all his life, he never married and died I think in the early 1970's, I remember we visited him as children.

[MaxD]

You can view William's record on Fold3 https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61400&h=54079&tid=&pid=&queryId=78b81c9cd864eb76f43096e3936c8a59&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qjx1325&_phstart=successSource  if you have the extra sub from Ancestry.  You could try comparing the cost of a trial sub or whatever they call it for Fold 3 with a short sub from FMP.

MaxD

 

PS See my PM to you

Edited 5 July , 2021 by MaxD

[JANET HISCOCK]

2 hours ago, MaxD said:

William's RAF record is on Findmypast British Royal Air Force, Airmen's service records 1912-1939 Image | findmypast.co.uk

Served in the army Royal Flying Corps from 10 Feb 1916, RAF from 1 Apr 1918, discharged Sep 1920.

What do his army papers that you mention refer to ?  Do they have anoher number?

 

MaxD

This is what I have but as you can see it is illegible, there are 3 pages. If I subscribe to this site will I see it properly and will I be able to find the war diaries that cover his service. Many thanks and sorry to be so much trouble!!

Janet

[MaxD]

That is his record, it is perfectly legible on FMP., there are two pages. There won't however be war diaries. There is no detail at all of his RFC service and the RAF record shows the units he was in only from March 1919 when the war was over so his whereabouts in the Feb 1916 to March 1919 period are not known except that he was in France from 15 Mar 1916 to 14 Aug 1919.

The first unit recorded is 4 AP which I believe to be 4 Aircraft Park but there is no date to show whether this was after the war ended or not.  I find no documents relating to that unit.

MaxD.

[JANET HISCOCK]

2 hours ago, MaxD said:

William's RAF record is on Findmypast British Royal Air Force, Airmen's service records 1912-1939 Image | findmypast.co.uk

Served in the army Royal Flying Corps from 10 Feb 1916, RAF from 1 Apr 1918, discharged Sep 1920.

What do his army papers that you mention refer to ?  Do they have anoher number?

 

MaxD

I am not a member of Find My Past, I currently only subscribe to Ancestry (and have looked but couldn't find it). I will have to subscribe at some point! Perhaps if I do I will also find Harold, going to do some more digging first. Thank you for all your advice and help you have been so helpful!!

[MaxD]

Ancestry:

UK, Royal Air Force Airmen Records, 1918-1940 - Ancestry.co.uk

May I suggest that when you do come back, start a new thread with names.  The search for the brothers has nothing to do with Gustrow POW camp.

 

Good luck.

MaxD

[JANET HISCOCK]

3 hours ago, MaxD said:

You can view William's record on Fold3 https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61400&h=54079&tid=&pid=&queryId=78b81c9cd864eb76f43096e3936c8a59&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qjx1325&_phstart=successSource  if you have the extra sub from Ancestry.  You could try comparing the cost of a trial sub or whatever they call it for Fold 3 with a short sub from FMP.

MaxD

 

PS See my PM to you

I am going to subscribe to obtain Williams record and look for Harold. I cannot see a PM but I am technically challenged as you may have guessed! I will start a new thread next time so as not to relate all the messages to Gustrow which was only my initial query - sorry! Janet

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, JANET HISCOCK said:

I am going to subscribe to obtain Williams record and look for Harold. I cannot see a PM but I am technically challenged as you may have guessed! I will start a new thread next time so as not to relate all the messages to Gustrow which was only my initial query - sorry! Janet

Have you considered your local library service? Most County libraries offer the FMP library edition, and during the pandemic some are making it available at home.  As Max suggests it would be helpful to start a new thread. 

[mancpal]

Its not uncommon for a recruit to be deemed "unlikely to become an efficient soldier" and discharged only to be found acceptable at the recruiting office on the other side of town. I suspect we have all grown used to the speed of technology (instant answers) though over a century ago the system relied on a mountain of paperwork which could not have been easily cross referenced, my grandad was KRRC for about 30 days, deemed "unlikely" and spent the next 3 yrs in the Mcrs.

 

Simon

[MaxD]

Janet

You referred earlier to a record which had the phrase that Simon picks up "not likely to become etc...."  Do you still have that record, it doesn't appear in any record I've seen.

My PM siad nothing more really that hs been covered, 

MaxD

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 28/06/2020 at 23:02, PRC said:

The Lance Corporal rank and the wearing of what is probably the medal ribbons for his Victory Medal and British War Medal indicates the picture was taken in 1919 at the earliest.

Even allowing for the vagaries of orthochromatic film, I can only see the War Medal ribbon in the image posted by Tony on June 28th 2020. (Yes 2020 !)

 

Edited 6 July , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Feldpost]

Hi Simon,

today I sign up to this forum and this is my first post!

I live in north germany and I am  interested in local history and specialized during the years a little bid in military history of my region, too. One of my hobbys is collecting german fieldpost related to my home area. Many years ago I also joined the german ww1 fieldpost collecters club. They issue 4 bulletins a year  dealing with feldpost themes. I just have written an article about the "Marinebahn Gettorf-Stohl", from which  I have an interesting fieldpost card. The term can roughly translated as "navy railway Gettorf-Stohl". The article will be issued in the next few months.

So my first search in this forum was "Gettorf"- an most of the findings are related to you!

In 1917 the german navy startet to build a railway track from Gettorf  running east with an ending close to the baltic sea. The idea was to get better supply to the heavy navy batteries at the coast, the existing and also planned new navy batteries.

The track was built by a german railway working coy. with massive help of british and russian pows. First the pows live in an old pow camp at Gettorf, where the New track started. When the half of the track was finished the build another camp called "Birkenmoor". A part of the track was in use in summer 1918 and it was totally finished just two weeks before the war ended.

You wrote you have some camp-views of Gettorf and also railway fotos attached to it - now you know why....

Best wishes

Frank

 

[mancpal]

Frank,

I think you may have helped confirm that my grandad worked on railway construction. It had long been a family tale that Bert worked on railway building. He kept a notebook which contains a sketch of men lying on an embankment with shovels as a steam train passes by.

Do you know if the prisoners railway is still in use? I visited Gettorf about 10yrs ago and there is a railway and level crossing though whether this is connected I’ve no idea.

Simon

[Feldpost]

Hi Simon,

the railway has disappeared in 1931. Remains of the  embankment can still be found, if you know where the track was. I  can send you my article, when I have finished it. Just some details to check and illustrations/pictures to add.

In an german local archive I found the original construction plan from 1917:

Gettorf Stohl.pdf

The Gettorf pow camp was built west of the village, maybe at the very left site of the map (close to the road to Revensdorf). The first 500 british pows arrived there on 2th July 1917.

If you have some material relating to the railway or  the camp I would be very delighted.

Best wishes

Frank

 

[Feldpost]

Here comes a translated summary of my article. The original is much longer, but this deals also with with aother related terms as the german naval batteries in this area and another railwaytrack close to Kiel.:

 

The construction of the railwayline Gettorf-Stohl

On May 2, 1917 the "Landwehr Eisenbahn Bau Kompanie 9" arrived with 85 men and was housed in the prisoner-of-war camp in Gettorf, which had already been vacated at the beginning of 1916. In the preserved files the company it is also called "Militär Eisenbahn Bau Kompanie 9" or in short "MEbau 9". The "Military Railway Construction Department 162" in Flensburg was responsible for the railroad construction company and moved to Kiel.

The POW camp in Gettorf had already been established in early 1915 and was occupied from the end of March 1915 until February 1916 by 500 POW Russians from the main camp in Parchim, who worked in agriculture. After that, it was temporarily empty.

The camp itself consisted of six wooden barracks, one large one for the prisoners, one for the guards, one for the kitchen, one for a military hospital and two as latrines.

LEBK9 first staked out the route and began preliminary work. Then in July 1917 about 500 british prisoners of war were assigned to the actual construction work, initially also housed in the Gettorf camp. As construction progressed, however, the distance to the Gettorf camp became too great, so that as early as September the Birkenmoor subcamp was built halfway along the line and half of the british prisoners of war were housed there. In december 1917 about 350 british POWs were housed in Gettorf, 150 british POWs and 215 Russians in Birkenmoor. In december another 200 british POWs arrived in Gettorf and in July 1918, 400 prisoners can be traced in subcamp Birkenmoor. In terms of war law, the use of prisoners of war for the construction of a purely military railroad was certainly borderline, but also beeing projected as civilian railroad project before the war it would probably have been legally unproblematic. Some of the prisoners were also used in agriculture and road construction.

The technical acceptance of the Sprenge-Stohl section took place on October 25, 1918. Participants on those day were the district administrator of Eckernförde region and the civil-representative of the „Kgl. Eisenbahndirektion zu Altona“, the "Linienkommandantur J", the naval station of the Baltic Sea („Marinestation der Ostsee“), the „Bvg. Küste“, the represantives oft the fortification Friedrichsort and the leading officer oft he nearby command in Friedrichsort („Kommandantur Friedrichsort“).

 

The execution of the railroad construction was in the hands of the Field Railway Chief ("Chef des Feldeisenbahnwesens") and was managed by his authorized General Staff Officer at the High Command of Coastal Defense (in short "Bvg. Küste"). The Naval Station of the Baltic Sea acted as operator oft he new railwayline and is therefore also referred to as "contractor" in the files. However, the OdK became immobile in late summer 1918, except for their railway staff („Bvg Küste“).

 

From May 31, 1918, the line of the naval railroad from Gettorf to Sprenge could already be operated with locomotives of the Prussian State Railways. Operations on the Sprenge - Stohl section finally started on October 30, 1918. The Gettorf-Stohl naval railroad thus only went into operation shortly before the end of the war.

 

Best wishes

 

Frank