Gustrow POW Camp

[Tony Coyle]

My Grandfather John Coyle was captured on 22.03.18 at Sainte-Emilie in the German Spring Offensive of 1918. The only war story he ever told was that he was buried and then rescued by his Captain and they were both taken POW. He ended up at Gustrow and a very helpful member of the Face book Connaught Rangers page sent me a picture of his POW record. I am trying to further my research and do a little summary of him for my family by trying to find out what happened at the end of the war at Gustrow, when he was released and his service record prior to the Somme battle at Villers-Faucon, but have drawn a blank. I recently found a wonderful picture of him in uniform which I am getting enhanced and framed and want to do a summary on the back. His service No. was 9328. Any pointers gratefully received. Thank you.

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Tony Coyle said:

His service No. was 9328.

Welcome to the Forum, Tony.

 

His service number you quote is, I think, incorrect ?

 

The Medal Roll shows the following overseas service, theoretically in order, changing Service number when posted to a new Regiment.

 

6th Bn Connaught Rangers  6328  ( edit    -posted to 7th R Irish Fusiliers c 31/8/16)

7th Royal Irish Fusiliers    43171  (which was disbanded in Feb 1918- this probably explains why he was posted back to 6th Connaughts ?)

6th Connaught Rangers   18021 (under which he appears on the ICRC record

 

Charlie962

 

( if @charlie2 sees this he's good on these camps)

Edited 28 June , 2020 by charlie962
a bit more info on trf to 7th RIrFus

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Tony Coyle said:

His service No. was 9328.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

I can’t see a 9328 John Coyle serving with the Connaught Rangers but I can see a 6328. His Medal Index Card, ( a small administrative card prepared post war to keep track of the documentation relating to the issue of Service Medals), shows him as also 43171 Royal Irish Fusiliers and 18021 Connaught Rangers. It’s not clear from the card which unit was the last one and so responsible for issuing his medals.

 

The card itself shows he only qualified for the Victory Medal and British War Medal. That combination would indicate that he did not enter a Theatre of War until some point on or after the 1st January 1916 – additional service medals applied to men who saw service in a Theatre of War before that date.

 

The card contains no additional information apart from an administrative number referencing the relevant page of his regiments Service Medal Roll.

 

The Service Medal Roll itself may be more useful. If the clerk completing it followed the standing instructions then it should be possible to see all the units he served with down to Battalion level. In the case of someone like John you may need to look at the other entries on the page to work out the order in which units are shown – it can be quite arbitrary even between pages, with some pages being first to last and others last to first. Sadly, being infantry, you will probably find some of the soldiers died and so at least it’s possible to see how their last unit is reflected. The Service Medal Rolls are only available on Ancestry, but perhaps a kindly forum pal could check for you.

 

 - Charlie962 has beat me to it

 

As you say, his International Committee of the Red Cross card shows him as captured on the 22nd March 1918. He was then Private 18021 in the 6th Connaught Rangers.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3618217/3/2/

 

If you put the PA reference shown on the card into the search box on the same page you will be taken to a copy of the report received by the Red Cross from the German military authorities on the 27th June 1918. By the sounds of things this is the picture sent to you by the Facebook group.

 

Unfortunately that source doesn’t appear to have an obvious repatriation report for him.

 

Similarly, like over 60% of other ranks records from the Great War, his records do not appear to have survived the Great War.

 

Will continue digging to see what I can turn up – or wait for the big guns to pitch in.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Tony Coyle]

sincere apologies. yes it is 6328

[Tony Coyle]

and here is the picture I found in my fathers belongings. John is seated. thank you so much for your responses.

[PRC]

8 minutes ago, Tony Coyle said:

and here is the picture I found in my fathers belongings.

 

The Lance Corporal rank and the wearing of what is probably the medal ribbons for his Victory Medal and British War Medal indicates the picture was taken in 1919 at the earliest.

 

(Image sourced E-bay)

Looks like a Connaught Rangers cap badge but can't make out the shoulder titles.

 

Sourced: https://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/british_regiment/irish/connaught_rangers.htm

 

BTW - War Diaries are currently free to download from the UK National Archive if you set up an account. You didn't mention whether you have these or not.

Their War diary from December 1915 to July 1918, (when they were disbanded), can be found here:-

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352853

Very unlikely to mention him by name, but will give a view of where they were there and what they were doing.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[Tony Coyle]

Yes 6328 is engraved on the side of his 2 medals so I assume he ended with the 6th. I have downloaded the war diaries as you suggested and will be reading them this week but quickly scanning March 18 it makes for some grim statistics. 

Thanks so much again.

[mancpal]

Tony,

with regard to his repatriation its quite likely that he was repatriated via the 'Danish Scheme' of which there are a number of topics on the forum. The (very) basics being prisoners held in Northern camps were evacuated to Copenhagen awaiting transport home. A small number were taken to Sweden as Denmark was 'full', my grandad being one. As far as I can gather the majority of the ships docked at Leith or Hull though I doubt the passengers on board cared as long as it was Blighty.

 

Simon

[Tony Coyle]

Thank you Simon.  That's another area of research I can now pursue. 

[mancpal]

Tony,

google images has quite a number of photos taken within Gustrow, I have quite a few myself that my Grandad brought home with him. Its a while since I last looked but I have a suspicion that no passengers lists survive for the journey home.

 

Simon

Edited 29 June , 2020 by mancpal

[Guest]

my grandfather was in gustrow camp in 1917 after being captured on the western front.i was told he was forced to work in a salt mine can anyone else confirm this .i visited gustrow as the wall came down with a set of postcards my grandfather had collected and it seemed little changed.he was liberated through sweden

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, madamemoisselle said:

my grandfather was in gustrow camp in 1917 after being captured on the western front.i was told he was forced to work in a salt mine can anyone else confirm this .i visited gustrow as the wall came down with a set of postcards my grandfather had collected and it seemed little changed.he was liberated through sweden

 

Yes, it's true that POW were forced to work in local salt mines.  There are numerous mentions of this in the forum, you can read just some of them here: 

 

Edited 14 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

On 28/06/2020 at 23:02, PRC said:

 

The Lance Corporal rank and the wearing of what is probably the medal ribbons for his Victory Medal and British War Medal indicates the picture was taken in 1919 at the earliest.

 

(Image sourced E-bay)

Looks like a Connaught Rangers cap badge but can't make out the shoulder titles.

 

 

Sourced: https://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/british_regiment/irish/connaught_rangers.htm

 

BTW - War Diaries are currently free to download from the UK National Archive if you set up an account. You didn't mention whether you have these or not.

Their War diary from December 1915 to July 1918, (when they were disbanded), can be found here:-

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352853

Very unlikely to mention him by name, but will give a view of where they were there and what they were doing.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

Just for your interest Peter, this is the shoulder title that you can see.  It was one of the longer ones.

 

Edited 14 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

Bonjour @madamemoisselle and welcome to the fourm.

 

Have you checked the International Committee if the Red Cross website to see if there is any surviving paperwork for him It may possibly include the repatriation report detailing his arrival back in the UK and where he had come from.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/

 

If you care to share his details then the hive mind that is the CWF may be able to turn up more infornation for you.

 

8 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Just for your interest Peter, this is the shoulder title that you can see.  It was one of the longer ones.

 

Thank you - I am very much interested

 

Peter

[mancpal]

Madamemoiselle,

I too would be interested in learning more of your grandfathers time as a p.o.w particularly anything regarding his repatriation, my grandfather I believe arrived home via Llungbyhed military camp in Sweden. You may already be aware  Gustrow was a distribution camp which supplied labour to a number of satellite labour camps. In my grandads case he was sent to Gettorf where I think initially they worked on the land though later in the war there seemed little appetite amongst the Germans to make anyone work. His camp was liberated by mutinous German sailors from nearby Kiel who placed a private Marine in command. It seems one of his instructions was to allow prisoners to go on days out visiting KIel and the like as long as there was one guard per 10 prisoners! This is probably why my grandad bought a number of postcards of Kiel. Gettorf is also virtually unchanged since the war, I asked in the local library if they had anything on the camp or of the prisoners but they had no knowledge that a camp ever existed in their town. Gustrow camp is now part of an airfield though I understand there is a stone tablet indicating it was a camp. The prisoners interred in the camp cemetery were relocated to Hamburg though I'm not sure when.

 

Simon

Edited 14 January , 2021 by mancpal

[JANET HISCOCK]

Hi.

I am new to this and am hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I have discovered that my Grandfather Sydney Austin was a PoW held in Gustrow camp. He was captured on 21 March 1918 in the Somme area and was held at Gustrow sometime between that date and his repatriation to the UK on 2nd December 1918. He served with The Duke of Lancasters Own Yeomanry and his number was 111131, his service record also shows the Lancashire Fusiliers under number 53371 and Royal Engineers number 616438. I am so interested to find out anything that I can but really dont know where to start. Are there any records from Gustrow? Many thanks in anticipation of some pointers!

Janet Hiscock

[MaxD]

His POW records under 53371 are here:

Prisoners of the First World War | International Committee of the Red Cross - Details about the person (icrc.org)

The first card that comes up is in effect a summary of his other records beneath the record of an enquiry as to his whereabouts made by his sister (top part) and iommunicated to her in Aug 1918.  The section below is the summary.   Click on the right hand of the two cards shown and enter the PA number 27768 under reference number and click search.  This brings up a listing from Gustrow on 26 Jun 1918 showing he was with 2/8 Battalion Lancs Fusiliers, captured at Templeux (in the Somme area) on 21 March 1918 (the first day of the massive German offensive that resulted in an enormous number of casualties including many prisoners).  Go back to the card again and enter the R number 53486 which brings up a British listing of arrivals back home in Dec 1918.

Previous posts have much useful info about Gustrow.

MaxD

 

[MaxD]

Findmypast (a subscription site) has a set of records for him somewhat  mixed up with another Austin so just worth checking with you that your Austin was from Tunstall and that his sister details on the POW record match with your man?

 

PS Welcome to the forum

Edited 2 July , 2021 by MaxD

[MaxD]

If the detail of your Austin is indeed correct then the war diary of the brigade to which 2/8 Lancs Fusiliers belonged (their own War diary for March 1918 is missing) will be of interest. 

The brigade diary has a comprehensive account of the action that day. It can be downloaded free at present from the National Archives at 197 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters. | The National Archives  At the beginning of March the battalion numbered 47 officers and 914 men.  On 31 March 11 officers and 250 men, the vast majority of the 700 casualties or so were classed as missing.

It confirms that they were on the north west of Templeux-le-Guerard on the map at :

Side by side georeferenced maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland (nls.uk)

 

MaxD

 

 

[JANET HISCOCK]

Hi Max

I am SO grateful for all this information and yes the records are for the correct person. I have been writing up the war service for my Grandpa and three of his brothers and only this morning read on this forum a memory from "Tim Casterton" which I noted had exactly the same capture dates and repatriation dates as my Grandpa and it went through my mind "I wonder if they knew each other?". The repatriation list shows both of them amongst only 26 soldiers on that list so it is very, very likely that they spent their time as PoW's together. I am just trying to download the war diary that you have linked to me. I really can't say how grateful I am for all this information. It is so meaningful to me and my family. Thank you so much.

Janet Hiscock

[MaxD]

You are most welcome.  

The man Casterton was in a completely different regiment in a different brigade in the same division.  He was caprured about 50 miles away from Sydney.  They were however in June 1918 in the same camp but whether they know each other there I'm not sure we'd know. The number of men captured on the front on 21 March 1918 must number in the thousands, someone may know!.  Search for "German Spring Offensive 1918" will give results, useful for background.

Come back if you have problems with the diary.  Do you have access to Findmypast and/or Ancestry?

MaxD

[MaxD]

Free also from the National Archives is his medal card:

Medal card of Austin, Sydney Corps: Lancashire Fusiliers Regiment No: 53371 ... | The National Archives  There is no date at the bottom left of the card, this indicates he did not go abroad until after 1915.  His record shows he served in turn with the Duke of Lancasters Yeomanry first in UK from Oct 1916, went to France on 26 Feb 1918 less than a month before capture having been transferred to the Lancs Fusiliers , came home in Dec 1918, was transferred to the Royal Engineers in August 1919 and was discharged in Nov 1919.

the addresses 27 Kenwood Road Oldham and 386 Burnley Lane Chadderton appear on his records which is why I queried whether we had the right man.

 

MaxD

 

[JANET HISCOCK]

Hi

Really grateful for all this. I have been retired for six months and always said that once retired I would do a lot of work on my family tree and also try to trace my grandfathers war service. My Dad had what we thought were my Grandpa's medals but they do have J Austin as the inscription instead of S Austin. We knew Grandpa's brother Josiah emigrated to the USA so I presumed (note to self - never presume anything!)  that Sydney (who was younger) enlisted using his brothers ID. So I have spent months writing up Josiah Austin's service from the War Diaries which my cousin helped me to find and then only a few weeks back I stumble upon enlistment papers for my Grandpa Sydney and find that he was captured within weeks of being posted. This finding has thrown me into complete disarray!!

Therefore I now have a lengthy account part written up which I now know relates to Josiah, my great uncle and very little information about Grandpa!! I have now decided that over a period of time I will extend my account into a booklet for the family and I will include the service for all four brothers if I can find it, so I still have two more brothers to go!! Harold Austin who I have previously looked for and not found and William Austin who was in the Navy who I haven't even started!! I think this will become a long term project and I should make full use of my membership of this forum.

Incredibly all four brothers came home and lived into old age. Unfortunately my father (and all the offspring of the brothers) are now deceased and will never know all this.  Josiah's account has been heartbreaking at times to write up and I have no idea how he survived, he was in several battles of the Somme and served four years in WW1 with the Royal Field Artillery.

We will never know why Grandpa had his brothers medals nor what happened to his own but I am enjoying (if that term can be used) the challenge of uncovering the information and I have a lot of expectant relations waiting for my booklet to be finished. So your help is widely appreciated and I thank you enormously.

Best regards

Janet

[MaxD]

Don't hesitate to come back with whatever detail you have on the others if you need help.

Tip - easier for forum members to deal with if you open a new thread for each man with his name in the title and perhaps one detaail that you are sure of.

Good luck with the remaning research.

 

MaxD

[JANET HISCOCK]

William Austin (born 22.01.1893) his marriage lines state employment as 22264 Corporal Mechanic Royal Air Force. There are enlistment papers for the Army  but a comment stating that "he would not make an effective soldier", so he must have given up on that and gone in the RAF!!

Harold Austin DOB 06.02.1897 I can find nothing at all for him.

If you can guide me where to start with either of these I would be really grateful.

Best regards

Janet