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Remembered Today:

Adolf Hitler - Iron Cross


mikereme

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Hello Everyone,

 

Could this great forum tell me were & when Adolf Hitler was awarded his Iron Cross?

 

I thank you in anticipation 

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The Iron Cross 2nd Class was officially awarded on 2 December 1914, 1st Class on 4 August 1918.

 

Jan

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1 minute ago, AOK4 said:

The Iron Cross 2nd Class was officially awarded on 2 December 1914, 1st Class on 4 August 1918.

 

Jan

Hello Jan, 

 

Thank you...where did he get these awards-- location if possible?

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Towards the end of the war when he was an RHQ runner, and apparently against the French (possibly the Battle of Montdidier 9 Aug 18).  There was some 'suggestion' that his awards were influenced by the unit's staff captain who later was one of his two personal adjutants during WW2.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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11 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Towards the end of the war when he was an RHQ runner.  There was some 'suggestion' that his awards were influenced by the unit's staff captain who later was one of his two personal adjutants during WW2.

Thank you...any idea of where he got his award belgium/france and if possible exact location?

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3 minutes ago, mikereme said:

Thank you...any idea of where he got his award belgium/france and if possible exact location?

 

I'm not positive, but given the date of August 1918 and the little information that it was connected with his capture of some French troops, it seems most likely to have been the Battle of Montdidier, launched on 9 Aug 1918.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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18 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

I'm not positive, but given the date of August 1918 and the little information that it was connected with his capture of some French troops, it seems most likely to have been the Battle of Montdidier, launched on 9 Aug 1918.

Cheers buddy

3 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

There is a thread on the forum from quite some years ago if you care to search.

 

TR

Already tried to no avail...if you could point me the right direction would appreciate it...!!

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Dear All and mikereme,

AH's Jewish commanding officer Ltn der Res. Hugo Gutmann (1880-1962), recommended him for the EKI during the action near Soissons, 4 Aug 1918.

Gutman and his family were able to flee Germany via Belgium, France, and Portugal, to the USA. (Source: Wikipedia)

Kindest regards,

Kim.1360445360_HugoGutmanEKItoAH.jpg.e1be0df63bb04d186700037d447da7d8.jpg

 

Edited by Kimberley John Lindsay
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26 minutes ago, mikereme said:

Cheers buddy

Already tried to no avail...if you could point me the right direction would appreciate it...!!

Try this Mike:

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear All and mikereme,

AH's Jewish commanding officer Ltn der Res. Hugo Gutmann (1880-1962), recommended him for the EKI during the action near Soissons, 4 Aug 1918.

Gutman and his family were able to flee Germany via Belgium, France, and Portugal, to the USA.

Kindest regards,

Kim.1360445360_HugoGutmanEKItoAH.jpg.e1be0df63bb04d186700037d447da7d8.jpg

 

great thank you

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42 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Try this Mike:

 

 

Ok...still none the wiser apart from he may of received it at Montdidier/Soissons..thank you everyone whos helping me out....you would think that someonea sinfamous as Adolf Hitler  would be quite easy to find...but thank you for those who have submitted...

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5 minutes ago, mikereme said:

Ok...still none the wiser apart from he may of received it at Montdidier/Soissons..thank you everyone whos helping me out....you would think that someonea sinfamous as Adolf Hitler  would be quite easy to find...but thank you for those who have submitted...

 

Mike, I suspect that if the search was carried out in the German language more information might be available.  You can always make a fist of it with google translate, or similar.

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Iron Crosses were often awarded not just for one particular action but for a longer period of very good conduct.

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I believe in later years Hitler went to some efforts to have many of the records pertaining to his earlier life "lost", school records and the like- don;t know whether this extended to his military career?

 

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This book says Croonaert Wood, Wytschaete https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t5C6DQAAQBAJ&pg=PT220&lpg=PT220&dq=Hitler+Croonaert+Wood&source=bl&ots=IvvT3FFgth&sig=ACfU3U0H4eRrNVHPj1WntWtTTjzPh9KbIA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiK-MTl5IrqAhWUThUIHYMTD6UQ6AEwBHoECBcQAQ#v=onepage&q=Hitler Croonaert Wood&f=false but unfortunately mangles the date and quotes 2 December 1814.

 

Edit add:- I think this is the old thread Terry referred to 

 

Edited by HarryBrook
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Hello harry, this looks great....Croonart Wood/Chapel...am going there for a tour in the future...thank you so much eceryone!:D

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4 hours ago, Madmeg said:

I believe in later years Hitler went to some efforts to have many of the records pertaining to his earlier life "lost", school records and the like- don;t know whether this extended to his military career?

 

 

No, the military records are kept in Munich and are even on ancestry.

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14 hours ago, AOK4 said:

 

No, the military records are kept in Munich and are even on ancestry.

Ironically, the military records of my Prussian ancestor were destroyed because of the war Gefreiter Hitler started!

 

Has anyone ever actually located the actual EKI of Hitler? I would assume he was wearing it when he killed himself and then probably melted or otherwise destroyed when his body was burned but I guess there may not ever be a perfect answer.

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On 18/06/2020 at 09:35, mikereme said:

Hello harry, this looks great....Croonart Wood/Chapel...am going there for a tour in the future...thank you so much eceryone!:D


So Croonaert for 1914 2nd Class and Soissons for Aug 1918 1st Class? 

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12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Croonaert for 1914

 

John Williams in Corporal Hitler and the Great War 1914 - 1918 devotes quite a few pages to the awards, particularly to Lyn Macdonald's 1987 claim that Hitler dashed through heavy fire to rescue his commanding officer Captain Hoffman.  Alas, there was no Captain Hoffmann in the List Regiment.  Williams gives the date range as 15 - 17 November 1914, while involved in a Bavarian attack on Wytschaete.

 

They were trapped by heavy shellfire in the ravine that faced the wood near Wytschaete.  Williams quotes a 1932 report by the adjutant of the List Regiment, Eichelsdorfer:  "The regimental commander wanted to intervene personally and set out from the ravine for the edge of the woods [but] he had hardly been discovered by the keen eye of the enemy, when murderous infantry and machine-gun fire was directed at him.  He would have paid with his life for his foolhardiness [had not] the regimental-orderlies accompanying him, Adolf Hitler and Bachmann sprung forward ..."

 

The exact place is not cited but is described as a ravine facing a wedge-shaped wood.  His regimental commander described it as occurring at the wood itself but apparently his adjutant was correct in that it was the facing ravine.

 

"As our men were storming the wedge-shaped wood stepped out of the woods near Wytschaete to get a better view of developments.  Hitler and the volunteer Bachmann, another battle orderly from the 16th Regiment, stood before me to protect me with their bodies from the machine-gun fire to which I was exposed."

 

Williams, John Frank, 1933–
Corporal Hitler and the Great War 1914–1918 : the List Regiment

 

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3 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

 

John Williams in Corporal Hitler and the Great War 1914 - 1918 devotes quite a few pages to the awards, particularly to Lyn Macdonald's 1987 claim that Hitler dashed through heavy fire to rescue his commanding officer Captain Hoffman.  Alas, there was no Captain Hoffmann in the List Regiment.  Williams gives the date range as 15 - 17 November 1914, while involved in a Bavarian attack on Wytschaete.

 

They were trapped by heavy shellfire in the ravine that faced the wood near Wytschaete.  Williams quotes a 1932 report by the adjutant of the List Regiment, Eichelsdorfer:  "The regimental commander wanted to intervene personally and set out from the ravine for the edge of the woods [but] he had hardly been discovered by the keen eye of the enemy, when murderous infantry and machine-gun fire was directed at him.  He would have paid with his life for his foolhardiness [had not] the regimental-orderlies accompanying him, Adolf Hitler and Bachmann sprung forward ..."

 

The exact place is not cited but is described as a ravine facing a wedge-shaped wood.  His regimental commander described it as occurring at the wood itself but apparently his adjutant was correct in that it was the facing ravine.

 

"As our men were storming the wedge-shaped wood stepped out of the woods near Wytschaete to get a better view of developments.  Hitler and the volunteer Bachmann, another battle orderly from the 16th Regiment, stood before me to protect me with their bodies from the machine-gun fire to which I was exposed."

 

Williams, John Frank, 1933–
Corporal Hitler and the Great War 1914–1918 : the List Regiment

 


That seems a fairly definitive account, thank you.  So Wytschaete for 1914 and the 2nd Class Award.

 I wonder if there’s as good an account of the Aug 1918 award relating to the 1st Class Award ostensibly at Soissons.

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31 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I wonder if there’s as good an account of the Aug 1918 award relating to the 1st Class Award ostensibly at Soissons.

From the same reference as post #21:

 

Williams dismisses lurid post-war accounts, propaganda by Goebbels and the version taught to German schoolchildren, then quotes the official citation.  This makes it clear that this Iron Cross was not awarded for any one act of bravery, but several.  Page 190 has the List Regiment at St. Agnan and the award date as 4 August 1918.


As a runner, his coolness and dash in both trench and open warfare have
been exemplary, and invariably he has shown himself ready to volunteer
for tasks in the most difficult situation and at great danger to himself.
Whenever communications have been totally disrupted at a critical
moment in a battle, it has been thanks to Hitler’s unflagging and devoted
efforts that important messages have continued to get through despite
every difficulty. Hitler received the Iron Cross Second Class for gallant
conduct during the fighting at Wytschaete on 1 Dec. 1914. [He] fully
deserves to be awarded the Iron Cross First Class.

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Excellent research, thank you.  It seems that there is a St Agnan close to Soissons so presumably that matches the facts that have emerged.

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Just a thought...i was told in the past...that AH....painted/drawn a sunken road (croonaert wood)....if this is the case....is there any drawing of the sunken road?

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