54th Division sign

[Eran Tearosh]

The 54th (East Anglian) Infantry Division was raised in 1908, mobilized in 1914, fought in Gallipoli in 1915, and later become a part of the EEF for the rest of the war, fighting through Sinai, Palestine and Lebanon. Strangely, the Divisional Sign - an umbrella, turned inside out (below) -  was adopted only after the Umbrella Hill Raids of July 1917, just over a year before the end of the war. Any explanation as to why was a sign chosen so late in the war? What were they using as shoulder insignia before, in Gallipoli, for example? (If they had one) 

 

Thanks, Eran

 

   

 

 

[Mike_H]

Eran

 

This  was only used as a vehicle sign on divisional transport and not as a cloth badge on uniform. The infantry battalions of the division used various geometric shapes in different colours as battalion identifying marks.

 

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

I agree with Mike.  Looking online there are some photos showing cloth triangles, some point uppermost and some down, at the tops of arms, seemingly in a variety of colours.  These would have been unit and brigade designators.

Edited 4 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Eran Tearosh]

Thanks Mike and Frogsmile!

 

Still, it's puzzling. Most divisions had a divisional sign, although I don't know when each one of them was decided upon. 

The two exceptions in this theater of the war are the 75th division and the 54th division: both use a sign that is connected to a military event the division was involved in. In the case of the 75th - a key, which is a symbol for the capture of Nebi Samuel, the key to Jerusalem (I wrote about the 54th's event in post # 1). In both cases, it is some sort of a 'Battle Honour', so different from all the other divisions. In the case of the fairly newly formed 75th division - it makes sense. But the 54th division was formed years before the war and fought in Gallipoli and Gaza. If they managed without a sign all the way till late 1917, why/what on earth changed that, and why did they choose the Umbrella Hill raids, which involved only one battalion, the Bedford's? (A couple of small scale raids, and although considered very successful - very costly in the terms of casualties). 

 

Eran        

Edited 4 June , 2020 by Eran Tearosh

[FROGSMILE]

I am wondering if the hill raid(s) action was named after the Division rather than the other way around?  East Anglia (i.e. the Counties within its bounds) is famous for being very flat and very windy because there’s no undulation to provide shelter.  I had always thought that the umbrella blown inside out was chosen to reflect that.  Thus could not the battle have been given that name to reflect the Division perhaps.

It wasn’t essential for Divisions to have ‘signs’ (emblems) and they had existed since the Napoleonic Wars without them.  The adoption of signs seems to have begun and evolved during WW1, with some divisions adopting them long before others.  Perhaps the 54th Division simply marked its vehicles with a number before that.  I agree that it would be interesting to find out. 

Edited 4 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[T8HANTS]

163 Brigade adopted the colours of the senior Battalion, which being the 5th Suffolk, their colours were red and yellow.  The 8th Hants used a vertical lozenge, with the yellow to the front.  I may be wrong on the following, but I think the 4th & 5th Norfolks used triangles, and the 5th Suffolks a square.  The blown out umbrella was not worn on uniform.

 

[Eran Tearosh]

8 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I am wondering if the hill raid(s) action was named after the Division rather than the other way around?  East Anglia (i.e. the Counties within its bounds) is famous for being very flat and very windy because there’s no undulation to provide shelter.  I had always thought that the umbrella blown inside out was chosen to reflect that.  Thus could not the battle have been given that name to reflect the Division perhaps.

 

No, this name was given before the 54th Division arrived to this sector of the line. Here's a quote from the 52nd Divisional history (p. 340):

"The first reordered offensive exploit by a patrol took place on the night of 18-19th May, when some 5th R.S.F. crept up and threw bombs into the Turkish trenches on Umbrella Hill. This was a high sand-hill running out from the Turkish lines like a bastion on the edge of the sand-hills. It's crest was covered with green bushes and trees, and it took its name from one of the latter, which from a distance looked like a 'Sairey Gamp' umbrella. This hill became famous later on." 

 

Tomorrow (June 5th) is the date in 1917 when an Ottoman raid was launched on an advanced observation-post in front of Umbrella Hill. A Victoria Cross was awarded to 2nd Lieut. J. M. Craig (R.S.F) for his actions that day.  

 

Edited 4 June , 2020 by Eran Tearosh

[rob carman]

Eran,

 

I still owe you a follow up pm, but this first.

 

"The suggestion of a March hare for the 54th Division was turned down as "gross insubordination," and an umbrella blown inside out was eventually selected; a delicate compliment to the Battalion that had so thoroughly "put the wind up Umbrella Hill”.  Fair and Wolton, 1923, The History of 1/5 Battalion, the Suffolk Regiment. page 70. 

 

Fair and Wolton were 5 Suffolk officers. They say it was for intended for use on vehicles and other movable divisional property.  Their explanation would make mores sense if it read "put the wind up the Turks on Umbrella Hill", and that would better explain the inside out umbrella.

 

The mention of insubordination is an inside-joke.  Major-General Sir Steuart W. Hare was CO, 54 Div, from April 1917 to Jan 1918.   I grew up on the Norfolk Suffolk border where the the expression "as mad as a March hare" was common enough.  Thus the insubordination.

 

In the same paragraph Fair and Wolton discuss the battalion flashes in 54 Div.  These were issued in early August 1917 and were to be worn on the upper arm of the khaki drill jacket. Officers were issued a third patch for wear on the sun helmet: 1/4 Norfolks - Circle halved red and yellow, 1/5 Norfolks – Triangle, halved top to bottom, red and yellow, 1/5 Suffolks - Vertical rectangle - halved red over yellow, 1/8 Hampshires - Vertical rectangle - halved red beside yellow.  To help me date various images I put together facts and photos from Taff Gillingham, Neil Storey, the British Badge Forum and eBay and made the attached crib-sheets for each battalion.

Rob.

 

 

 

Edited 4 June , 2020 by rob carman

[FROGSMILE]

56 minutes ago, Eran Tearosh said:

 

No, this name was given before the 54th Division arrived to this sector of the line. Here's a quote from the 52nd Divisional history (p. 340):

"The first reordered offensive exploit by a patrol took place on the night of 18-19th May, when some 5th R.S.F. crept up and threw bombs into the Turkish trenches on Umbrella Hill. This was a high sand-hill running out from the Turkish lines like a bastion on the edge of the sand-hills. It's crest was covered with green bushes and trees, and it took its name from one of the latter, which from a distance looked like a 'Sairey Gamp' umbrella. This hill became famous later on." 

 

Tomorrow (June 5th) is the date in 1917 when an Ottoman raid was launched on an advanced observation-post in front of Umbrella Hill. A Victoria Cross was awarded to 2nd Lieut. J. M. Craig (R.S.F) for his actions that day.  

 

Thank you for taking the trouble to explain the details Eran, that is very interesting and informative.

 

9 minutes ago, rob carman said:

Eran,

 

I still owe you a follow up pm, but this first.

 

"The suggestion of a March hare for the 54th Division was turned down as "gross insubordination," and an umbrella blown inside out was eventually selected; a delicate compliment to the Battalion that had so thoroughly "put the wind up Umbrella Hill”.  Fair and Wolton, 1923, The History of 1/5 Battalion, the Suffolk Regiment. page 70. 

 

Fair and Wolton were 5 Suffolk officers. They say it was for intended for use on vehicles and other movable divisional property.  Their explanation would make mores sense if it read "put the wind up the Turks on Umbrella Hill", and that would better explain the inside out umbrella.

 

The mention of insubordination is an inside-joke.  Major-General Sir Steuart W. Hare was CO, 54 Div, from April 1917 to Jan 1918.   I grew up on the Norfolk Suffolk border where the the expression "as mad as a March hare" was common enough.  Thus the insubordination.

 

In the same paragraph Fair and Wolton discuss the battalion flashes in 54 Div.  These were issued in early August 1917 and were to be worn on the upper arm of the khaki drill jacket. Officers were issued a third patch for wear on the sun helmet: 1/4 Norfolks - Circle halved red and yellow, 1/5 Norfolks – Triangle, halved top to bottom, red and yellow, 1/5 Suffolks - Vertical rectangle - halved red over yellow, 1/8 Hampshires - Vertical rectangle - halved red beside yellow.  To help me date various images I put together facts and photos from Taff Gillingham, Neil Storey, the British Badge Forum and eBay and made the attached crib-sheets for each battalion.

Rob.

 

 

Very interesting Rob, I’m grateful for the detailed information and images.

Edited 4 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[T8HANTS]

The 8th Hants did have diamond or lozenge as well, as this is the left shoulder of my Uncle Albert.  So would the shape differ by company?

[FROGSMILE]

13 hours ago, T8HANTS said:

The 8th Hants did have diamond or lozenge as well, as this is the left shoulder of my Uncle Albert.  So would the shape differ by company?

 

 
I think it probably did, as that was the usual protocol and common in other regiments where different shapes were used.  I understand that there’s an intention to follow up the Kitchener’s Badges book with one covering the TF and Arms and Services, but there’s no hint of a publication date yet.

Edited 5 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[rob carman]

163 brigade = 4 battalions, 4 coys = 16 (red and yellow) shapes.  I'll never pass the test!  I have a hard enough time keeping it all straight when I thought there were only four.

 

 

 

 

Edited 5 June , 2020 by rob carman

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, rob carman said:

163 brigade = 4 battalions, 4 coys = 16 (red and yellow) shapes.  I'll never pass the test!  I have a hard enough time keeping it all straight when I thought there were only four.

 

 

 

 

Only the Suffolk’s in red and yellow Rob, the Norfolk’s and Hampshire’s with their own regimental colours.

Edited 5 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[rob carman]

A note I copied (from somewhere I did not record) says the red and yellow were chosen for the whole of 163 Brigade because they were the regimental colours of 5 Suffolks, the brigade’s senior battalion. 

 

2003 "Cloth Insignia" thread  https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/3964-cloth-insignia/page/6/  Arthur suggests all 4 battalions used red and yellow, info from Major John Waring 'Cloth Formation Insignia' Military Heraldry Society.

 

"Cloth Insignia" Post 138.  “Suffolk Regiment 1st/5th Red left and yellow triangle Felt”

 

"Cloth Insignia" Post 147 and photo in post 149. “The 1/5th [Suffolks] wore a Red over Yellow Rectangle, never a triangle (which I believe was worn by 1/4th or 1/5th Norfolk). These rectangles were made of red silk and yellow cotton not felt. I have an original and plenty of photographs of them being worn on khaki serge tunics (see attached pic) as well as on khaki drill showing the differing cloth.”  Chief Chum.

 

 "Cloth Insignia" Post 174 with attached photograph of circular red and yellow patch "I believe they are a pair of 1/4th or 1/5th Norfolk Regiment patches. Made from a similar cloth as the 1/5th Suffolk badge above, but quite small.  Not sure which way up they were worn.  I have a feeling that 1/5th Norfolk wore red and yellow triangles, divided vertically. If I'm right these should be 1/4th but, as always, I'm happy to be corrected.” Chief Chum. 

 

On the other hand, if each battalion did opt for its regimental colours, red and yellow may still have been common.  Red and yellow were the Suffolk Regiment's colours and although I am less confident of it, I think they are Norfolk colours too. 

 

I don't know what the Hampshire colours are but in terms of apparent colour in a photo at https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29404 another 1/8 Hants patch looks a lot like Gareth's uncle’s patch and the 5 Norfolk patch (with cap badge) in post 8 of  this thread.  All these images are all b/w and that could distort the colours, even so they seem alike. 

 

If the Hampshire regimental colours are not red and yellow, might they in look the same as the Norfolk and Suffolk colours in a period photo and still be different in fact?

 

I used to infer from Chief Chum’s posts and my own limited experience of photos that a single shape was adopted by 5 Suffolks and each of the other battalions.  Arthur/Maj waring in "Cloth Insignia" does not mention company specific patches in 54 Div but does list them for other regiments, possibly supporting with Chief Chum on one shape per battalion.  However, between them they identify two 5 Suffolk shapes.  This is addressed somewhat in in posts 147 and 149.   But with at least two 1/8 Hants patches, I need to reconsider.

 

An aside:  Who decides on the senior battalion?  Seniority of regiment or colonel?  

 

 

Edited 5 June , 2020 by rob carman

[FROGSMILE]

That’s interesting information Rob and I’m happy to remain open minded about it, but I’d be really surprised if both regiments forsook their regimental colours unless forced into it.  By coincidence both Norfolk’s and Hampshire’s, like the Suffolk’s too, had yellow facings historically and so yellow was a primary colour.  Surprisingly both had black as the second colour.  Configurations for both was often a square divided vertically 50-50, but diamonds, triangles, circles and even rectangles were all used from time to time.

 

The Seniority within a brigade was systematically determined by the precedence of each regiment in terms of its place in the line.  Ergo the Norfolk’s came first, then the Suffolk’s and finally the Hampshire’s.

Edited 5 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[T8HANTS]

I am sure I read in one of the Battalion histories that the Suffolks were considered the senior Battalion, possibly when the 4th Suffolks were still part of the Brigade and the Regiment remaind so.  The regimental colours of the Hampshire regiment are referred to as black and amber, never yellow.

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, T8HANTS said:

I am sure I read in one of the Battalion histories that the Suffolks were considered the senior Battalion, possibly when the 4th Suffolks were still part of the Brigade and the Regiment remaind so.  The regimental colours of the Hampshire regiment are referred to as black and amber, never yellow.

It’s a good point, there were times when the Divisions and Brigades changed their constituent parts and if the senior battalion remained, but others left then rather than reconfigure the cloth patches perhaps they left things as they were, I don’t know.  What I do know is that when the formation is first created the seniority is determined in the way that I’ve explained.  The principle was inviolate.

Edited 5 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[rob carman]

Perhaps the Norfolks were not forced into anything.  The Regiment appears to have favoured red and yellow stripes.  The attached below is from Britannia and Castle, July 1962.  Volume 4 of the Regimental History has pair of yellow and red parallel stripes on the otherwise black cover and two sets on the spine.  A flyer for regimental museum uses a red and yellow stripe combo without a black background 19 times in 11 pages of text. 

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

It’s possible Rob, but over many decades the regiment’s iconography shows a far greater use of black within the combination of colours used.  To be sure we would need to see what is recorded contemporaneously.  Yellow is common to all three and yellow and red to both Suffolk’s and Norfolk’s, but Hampshire not.  As you pointed out in your earlier post, 16 combinations of red and yellow would have been confusing and so not really served the purpose of quick identification in the field.  For that reason I remain a bit sceptical.

 

Edited 6 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[steve fuller]

 

On 05/06/2020 at 21:24, T8HANTS said:

I am sure I read in one of the Battalion histories that the Suffolks were considered the senior Battalion, possibly when the 4th Suffolks were still part of the Brigade and the Regiment remaind so.  The regimental colours of the Hampshire regiment are referred to as black and amber, never yellow.

I'd have thought in Anglian terms, the Norfolks would be the senior regiment, being the old 9th Foot, then Lincs if present (10th), Suffolk (11th), Bedfords (16th), etc.? 

 

Yellow seems to be a recurring favourite among the older regiments, many of whom had yellow facings in their early years

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, steve fuller said:

 

I'd have thought in Anglian terms, the Norfolks would be the senior regiment, being the old 9th Foot, then Lincs if present (10th), Suffolk (11th), Bedfords (16th), etc.? 

 

Yellow seems to be a recurring favourite among the older regiments, many of whom had yellow facings in their early years

 

Yes, the seniority that you’ve outlined is certainly the usual protocol that was used to determine seniority (in actual fact ‘precedence’) within brigades. 
 

You’re quite right that being faced yellow was common to all three regiments.

Edited 21 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE