"Died In The Field" meaning?

[Derek Black]

The 1914 and 1914-15 star medal rolls give various causes if death: KIA, DoW, Died, Disease, Missing, Died PoW and Died in the Field.

 

Has anyone a source that gives a definition to the last one?

 

Cheers,
Derek.

[Moonraker]

I've always thought that it meant "died in battle", as in "died on the field of battle" (though that's "on", not "in"). But curiously Googling produces little to support that., apart from a

 

traditional tune

 

Equally curiously, I might take it to mean "died on active service" during a particularly arduous campaign such as in Mesopotamia or in a jungle, but not behind the lines in France, but that's me over-indulging in nuances.

 

It'll be interesting to see what others have to say.

[rolt968]

1 hour ago, Derek Black said:

The 1914 and 1914-15 star medal rolls give various causes if death: KIA, DoW, Died, Disease, Missing, Died PoW and Died in the Field.

 

Has anyone a source that gives a definition to the last one?

 

Cheers,
Derek.

(OK, I'm not committing myself, at least for the time being, at least.) Have you looked at what the other sources (Soldiers Died in the Great War) say about men where that appears.) I suppose that the cause of death is the same as when "Died" appears.

In the meantime I want to look at a couple of MRICs for men I researched some time ago.

RM

[rolt968]

I have drawn a blank so far. The MRIC and Medal Roll for one man I have researched who died (of a heart condition) in France say nothing about his death.

RM

[ss002d6252]

On 03/06/2020 at 13:35, Derek Black said:

The 1914 and 1914-15 star medal rolls give various causes if death: KIA, DoW, Died, Disease, Missing, Died PoW and Died in the Field.

 

Has anyone a source that gives a definition to the last one?

 

Cheers,
Derek.

Can you give names of some of the 'Died in the Field' men ?

 

Craig

[Derek Black]

Craig,
 

Here's men from a spread of dates of the 176 listed as "Died in the Field".

 

2255 Patrick Ahern 14/09/1914

9658 Frank Silk 16/09/1914

2627 George Hope 29/10/1914

1853 James Duncan 11/11/1914

8133 David Hardie 25/01/1915

490 George Knight 09/051915

8399 John Gray 25/09/1915

8166 Stewart Morrison 22/04/1916

548 William Aitken 25/09/1916

 

If you can offer an opinion on why this term was used I'd be happy to hear it.

 

The term was used in the 1914 star rolls of the 1st and 2nd btns, but not the 5ths, it was not used at all in the compiling of the 1914-15 star roll either.

 

Cheers,

Derek.

Edited 20 June , 2020 by Derek Black

[WhiteStarLine]

On 03/06/2020 at 23:27, Moonraker said:

I've always thought that it meant "died in battle", as in "died on the field of battle"

Spot on I believe.  It's a phrase seen in unit war diaries, soldiers' letters, German accounts (feld) and differentiates between the unit status of 'in barracks', 'on manoueuvre', 'in billets' etc.  The location wasn't in a village or obvious feature, but somewhere on the field of battle.

 

In terms of a primary source, I know that my grandfather's brigade issued a routine order post-Armistice lifting the ban on photography and removing the requirement for soldiers to give their location as "in the field" when writing letters.

[healdav]

It means simply Died in battle. Stop looking for fields.

[Knotty]

I know this may sound a little absurd, but, could it mean that they literally died at the front line,not through any form of battlefield actions, just a “natural” cause death or from an underlying health issue. We expect a relatively long life nowadays with all the medical advances, but the life expectancy for a male at this time was was around 52 years, some longer, but some shorter maybe that you are looking for something that isn’t there. You just have to look at Lieutenant-Colonel Sir James Grierson, who died on a train at Amiens in 17 August 1914, from aortic aneurism, age 55.

 

Just an idea.

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Ok, so it's probably synonymous with, 'KiA', (or possibly 'Died').

So why did the bureaucrats decide to use  2 descriptions for 1 condition (or 3 descriptions for 2 conditions)?

[ss002d6252]

It may simply be a particular clerk rather than any official usage (e.g. Cpl jones did it his way as that's how they did it back at Omdurman)

I'd agree with all the above that it's likely just an alternative for KiA - I looked at a few men from the list above and they were all KIA.

Craig

[TEW]

Soldiers' Effects seems to differentiate between 'in the field' and 'in action'.

TEW

[Derek Black]

Thanks gents for the varied thoughts on the matter.

It seems its use will have to remain a mystery.

 

Cheers,

Derek.

[Derek Black]

On 20/06/2020 at 11:43, TEW said:

Soldiers' Effects seems to differentiate between 'in the field' and 'in action'.

TEW

Your comment made me look at all 176 SER, none of them are described as "Killed In Action".
They're almost all along the lines of "on or since - date officially accepted".

I've no idea how this related to being described as died in the field, instead of the more usual KIA, Missing, Death Presumed.

 

Derek.

[johnboy]

Possibly died of illness without going to an aid centre eg heart attack?

[Knotty]

1 minute ago, johnboy said:

Possibly died of illness without going to an aid centre eg heart attack?

Hi johnboy
That’s what I said, see post #9, in short they died.

[johnboy]

Sorry notty did not see it

[Derek Black]

1 hour ago, johnboy said:

Possibly died of illness without going to an aid centre eg heart attack?

 

I think that its meaning to be death not caused by enemy action directly to be somewhat unlikely.
Considering 8 alone were for the 14th of September, 1914 and 18 more a few days later on the 19th, that would be a tremendous number of natural/illness related deaths..

 

Having spent the evening looking at newspaper notices of those described as Died in the Field, it would many were described by the War Office to their families as "Missing". So "Died in the Field" being a variation of "Missing in Action" seems to fit.

 

I'm wondering now, as Craig earlier postulated, that it was an outdated term still in use by a single clerk or within the depot?

 

Cheers,

Derek.

[TEW]

I searched soldiers' effects and only entered 'field' in place of death box. Obviously that brings up many field ambulance deaths but others I checked were listing 'In the Field' in that column with 'In Action' for others on same page.

 

I wondered if EG being killed by shrapnel while holding the line as opposed to being killed during an offensive makes the difference.

TEW

Edited 21 June , 2020 by TEW
Spelling

[JMB1943]

I have seen "Died in the Field" referring to those who were shot at dawn, following conviction by a court-martial.

My assumption was that the designation was to spare the loved ones the shock or shame etc.

 

Regards,

JMB

[kenf48]

8 hours ago, Derek Black said:

I'm wondering now, as Craig earlier postulated, that it was an outdated term still in use by a single clerk or within the depot?

 

There was no consistency in the completion of the medal rolls. Their only purpose was to advise the appropriate records office as to the disposal of the medals.

 

There are many local anomalies as to content, including for example striking through headings that did not comply with that particular units convention(s).  They were checked so presumably the expression was understood at the time.

[JMB1943]

One way to approach this is to find the cause of death listed for a person who is known unequivocally to have died of natural causes in a war zone.

Such an example is Lt. Gen. Grierson, who was appointed to command a Corps of the BEF, but died of a heart attack in France before he could take up his command.

 

I wonder if Nurse Edith Cavell (unnatural death) might also have been listed as "died in the field"?

 

Regards,

JMB

 

[TEW]

And/Or compare those entries shown as DITF from medal rolls and soldier's effects, do they always match up exactly?

 

Taking first 3 from list in post#6 and checking Soldier's Effects;

2255 Ahern has 2 entries both say On or since presumed dead.

9658 Silk - ditto.

2726 Hope - simply says on or since.

 

So it seems soldier's effects can use in the field for some men but those first 3 with same in medal rolls are listed as on or since.

 

 

Find service records for those who DITF? Just checked the list in post#6 with no luck.

TEW

[Derek Black]

36 minutes ago, TEW said:

And/Or compare those entries shown as DITF from medal rolls and soldier's effects, do they always match up exactly?

 

I did this, see post 14.

It seems to be used in the case of men recorded initially as missing.

 

Derek.

[TEW]

So DITF seems to be being used by some infantry records offices on medal rolls for men recorded on soldier's effects as on or since etc.

 

But having reversed the search, men recorded as in the field on soldier's effects can have nothing recorded about the circumstances recorded on medal rolls or cards. Ditto for those men recorded on soldiers' effects as died on or since.

 

Which presumably takes it back to Kenf48's comment in post#21 about local and individual practises.

TEW