Gallipoli - Division 11

[Mary Shortland]

Dear David,

 

We are learning so much from you and Alan, it is really interesting. Thank you both so much.

There are 3 chevrons on grandads sleeve, so he was certainly overseas, but that could have just been in France, although we did think he had been in Egypt.

I haven’t heard about Philosophe, but next time I visit Europe, I would certainly consider a visit there.

 

Best regards

Mary

[alantwo]

Hello Mary

 

Lovely photographs thanks for sharing them with us. I think comparing the puttees and boots is quite interesting. The first clean, polished and bright maybe ready for parade, the second dirty, stained and covered in mud straight from the battlefield. To the right of the crossed out “of” there appears to be some white lettering or perhaps it’s a trick of the light. The end of a photographers name or place? Probably nothing though.

 

I don’t think it has been mentioned previously but there is a tab at the top of this page “Long Long Trail” it will take you to a web-site by Chris Baker. It has general information about the 11th Division and their artillery, it will help to give context to the time, worth taking a look if you haven’t already done so.

 

Alan

Edited 3 May , 2020 by alantwo

[alantwo]

Sorry Mary me again.

 

Our National Archives are closed to visitors at the moment due to the virus, however digital archives have been made available to download for free. You only need an e-mail address and to provide a password of your own choosing. A number of War Diaries such as the 58th Brigade RFA are already on Ancestry through a subscription, but there are others from the 11th Division that you could download if you wish directly from the NA. To get you started:

 

59 Brigade Royal Field Artillery 1916 July-1919 April

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C7352592

60 Brigade Royal Field Artillery 1916 July-1917 Jan

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352593

Divisional Ammunition Column

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352596

Other ranks are not generally mentioned but there are a few men who have been given awards such as the Military Medal that are.

Also the National Library of Scotland have trench maps overlaid on various modern maps and Philosophe mentioned by David is on the map below. It is on the extreme left of the map about three quarters down the edge. In July 1918 A/59 RFA had guns at G 13d 6.7 which would be just to the [EAST] of the town.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101465008

The CWGC Philosophe British Cemetery, Mazingarbe is a little to the south[EAST] and has men from both 58th and 59th Brigades buried there.

I hope that is of interest.

Alan

Edited 4 May , 2020 by alantwo
Directions corrected

[Mary Shortland]

Dear Alan ,

 

Thanks once again for the information, we will sign up for the archives.

 

We have looked again at the photo with grandad and the dog and he has crossed out ‘of’ and ‘our’ and then written them again, so unfortunately not a name of a place. Good spotting though.

 

Kind regards

Mary

 

 

 

 

[Mary Shortland]

Dear Alan, Michael and David,

Not sure if you remember me, my name is Mary and I was trying to find out if my grandfather Frederick William George Walsh served in Gallipoli in 1915. 
He was in the 11 Division. 
I want to thank you again for all your assistance. The trail ran dry as I couldn’t prove if No. 35880 Gunner Walsh was my grandfather.

I actually now have that proof as a friend researched and found his pension card. See attached. Not sure why he would have been receiving a pension as he was only 44 when he was killed in World War II, but maybe he was injured in World War I.

Going back to the information you provided it probably looks like he didn’t go to Gallipoli as you said and maybe just served in France. Although my aunt says he was in India, but we think she actually meant Egypt. So maybe he went to the Suez as well as you suggested David.

Any further thoughts you may have on my grandfather’s career now we know he was definitely Gunner No. 35880 would be appreciated.

Kind regards

Mary

 

 

 

[David26]

Dear Mary,

thank you for updating us on what you know and it must be good to have resolved the key question was to whether this man was your grandfather. 

Unfortunately so far no new information has yet come to light to help fill in the other gaps for you.

On the question of pensions, a serviceman who was suffering the effects of any wounding or illness that could be attributed to his wartime service could apply for a pension and be assessed as to how significant - or not - it was to his health and ability to carry out his civilian occupation.  Many men received a few shillings a week for a while to help them out.  These were usually given for a set number of weeks such as 26 or 52 though I note that on your grandfather's card it says "until further notice" which might imply a slightly more significant condition.  It doesn't add, unfortunately, when the pension arrangements stopped.

Wishing you all the best in your continued search,

David.

[Mary Shortland]

Dear David,

Thank you for your response, my brother and I are really grateful for all the information Alan, Micheal and you have given us to find out more about our grandfather and we will continue with our searches.

Next month on the 25th is ANZAC Remembrance Day here in Australia and the soldiers that went to Gallipoli are very much in the hearts and minds of people here.

With all the information we have now it looks like grandad did not go to Gallipoli potentially only missing being sent there by just a couple of months. However he might have met other soldiers in Division 11 that did and shared some of the stories, which unfortunately would have been sad. So I am sure he was there in spirit.

Talking about sprit I have a letter my grandad sent to his sister in Canada in 1940 just before he got killed in Wapping. In the letter he says to her ‘Quite a lot of the boys about here have been called up, and I am wondering if they will call us old ones up later (he was only 44), but still Nell if they do I will go with a good heart again, it’s not worrying me, so long as my girls (his 4 daughters) are safe’.  This makes me very proud of my grandad, especially if he had been injured in World War I. 

Best wishes to you,

Mary