RNCVR Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 Yes Phil he is, I think he qualified whilst on Campania, altho there is nothing is his ADM 188 to indicate that, altho he may well have qualified early in his RAF career. His RAF record is quite sketchy, not much info on it other than his postings & promotions. Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 10 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 10 April , 2020 Dear All, Matthew's group with the Persian, shows how problematical it is when such large groups are Mounted for Wear (as is the similarly 11-medal group to Dawes). The obviously unique Dawes group seems to have been contemporarily mounted, which is pleasing. It also gives an idea of what Matthew's gallant and capable officer's group would have looked like, had be been obliged to go On Parade... Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 (edited) Well the DSO\MC group of 10 would have to be overlapped (similar to Dawes group) in order to be worn. With 3 clasps & MiD on the IGS medal the ribbons would have to be somewhat longer than normal length. & if it was me I would have been tempted to wear the Persian Order as a neck decoration, due to its size. The same size problem arises with the Egyptian Order of the Nile as its quite a large decoration. The Dawes group, when I rec'd it many yrs ago, as I recall, the medals were stapled onto a card. I court mounted them for display, but think if they were to be worn the overlapping might have been somewhat closer. Large medal groups have always presented a mounting & wearing difficulty. Thanks, Bryan Edited 10 April , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 That's one thing I've wondered about is where to wear some orders. Take Russian order st anne 2nd class. Sometimes mounted on a group sometimes around the neck. Why the difference? Surely there is a correct way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 St Anne 2nd class is a neck decoration. Its slightly larger than 3rd class. I have an RN group with a 2nd class but as he has a KBE he wears the St Anne from one of his dress coat buttons, will post shortly. Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 In the Paymaster Captain Shettle group (on page 1) he wore his St Anne as a neck decoration but it should have been worn as a breast decoration with his campaign medals. The suspension is for wearing as a neck ribbon. Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 Coldstreamer, check out this link - scroll down to Methods of Wear -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Saint_Anna Best.....Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 Very useful thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew B. Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 The gentleman in question is Brevet Colonel James Deas Fulton, D.S.O., M.C., Indian Army. The group came with a lot of original documents, including and the recipient’s 9 Mentioned in Despatches Certificates, dated 24 August 1916, 10 April 1917, 15 April 1918, 7 February 1919, 15 November 1919 (Southern Kurdistan 1919), 7 February 1921 (Mesopotamia 1920), 18 May 1932 (Burma 1930-32), 19 July 1935 (North West Frontier of India (Loe-Agra Operations) 1935), and 28 November 1935 (North West Frontier of India (Mohmand Operations) 1935). His award of the DSO is rather special too. He took part in the operations in Burma, December 1930 to March 1932, where he was again Mentioned in Despatches (London Gazette 20 December 1932) and created a Companion of the Distinguished Service Order, one of only four D.S.O.s awarded for the Burma Campaign (London Gazette 20 December 1932). Regards, Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 10 April , 2020 Share Posted 10 April , 2020 It is indeed a SUPER grouping Matthew! It must be one of the stars of yr collection. Thanks for posting Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 11 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2020 Dear All, I have already shown the Captain George Barrett Goyder, VD, group together with a picture of him riding in a Viceregal procession, probably in Lahore, 1911. Here is a better portrait of that capable Indian civil servant (Finance Dept.) and his medals in their original case. Furthermore, I add an off-topic foreigner (Greek War Medal) to the 2AIF (Maj. J. G. Lindsay, MC, psc) - my late father. My grandfather, Lt-Col. W. F. Lindsay. also had the MC... Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 11 April , 2020 Share Posted 11 April , 2020 Kim, I notice an Australian 2WW Service medal following his War medal, was Col W.F. Lindsay an Australian? & what are the last two (unofficial?) medals? Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 11 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2020 Dear Bryan, To explain:- Grandfather: Lt-Col William Frederic Lindsay, MC, ED. AIF Capt and Coy Cdr. 53 Bn. Wounded 1 Sep 1918, Peronne. MC. (A VC Action: Pte Currey, 53 Bn AIF). Father: 2nd AIF. NX182. Major John George Lindsay, MC, psc. Mentioned Wadi Derna Jan 1941 as T/Coy Cdr. MC as Adj., 2/4 Aust Inf Bn (Greece and Crete). Posthumously awarded official Greek War Medal 1940-41 (with Greek Govt. scroll). Also unofficial 2/4 Bn Association medal with six clasps. Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 11 April , 2020 Share Posted 11 April , 2020 Thanks Kim, appreciate that. I think I have it clear now & its great that your grandfather & father's medal groups are still in your family's possession. & thanks much for messaging me the photos of them! Best wishes, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 11 April , 2020 Share Posted 11 April , 2020 Some great groups on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 (edited) This DSO group is to a Canadian serving in the Royal Navy prior to & during 1WW. William Balfour Mcdonald. He was awarded the Egyptian Order of the Nile(3rd class, Commander) in 1917 primarily for his work during the defence of the Suez Canal during late 1914 &1915. He had been earlier been awarded the Swedish Order of the Sword in Dec 1907, & Order of the Crown of Prussia in Jan 1908, but these two awards have been separated over time from his group. Will continue below with some highlights of his 35 yr career, 1885-1920 Best wishes to all in these very trying times! Bryan Closer view of his medals. Closeup of the Order of the Nile 3rd cl.... Brief career summary within his medal frame..... Edited 13 April , 2020 by RNCVR . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 (edited) Williams Balfour Macdonald was born in Victoria, Province of British Columbia, Canada on 19 June 1870. He entered the Royal Navy on 15 July 1883 as a Naval Cadet on board HMS Britannia. Completed RN college Britannia & promoted to Midshipman on 15 Novembr 1885. He managed to achieve a 1st class certificate in Seamanship, College subjects, Torpedo, a 2nd class in Gunnery, but he initially failed in Pilotage, taking the exam again a month later he achieved a 3rd class. He subsequently was promoted to Sub Lieutenant 14 Nov 1889 & Lieutenant 30 June 1892. Most of his pre war service was spent in the Pacific & Australian stations. He was appointed First Lieut of HMS Pique 15 Feb 1900 & saw active service during the China campaign of 1900(Boxer rebellion), being awarded the 3rd China campaign medal. He was advanced to Commander on 31 Dec 1904. He subsequently served at home as Flag Commander to Admirals Bosanquet & Fanshawe at Portsmouth,commencing 8 Feb 1907. It was during this period that he was awarded the two "foreigners" awards upon the visits of King Gustavus of Sweden(in Dec 1907) & Emperor Wlihelm II of Prussia(in Jan 1908). After this appointment ceased at the end of his term he was appointed, on 6 Sep 1910, to Command HMCS Niobe (1st class Cruiser) on her being purchased by Canada for the RCN. The RCN had been established in May 1910, & Macdonald brought Niobe over to Canada (to Halifax) arriving on Trafalgar day, 21 Oct. He relinquished in command of Niobe & returned to UK in July 1913. I think he did not elect to remain in the RCN (he was never actually enrolled in the RCN) as he knew (as did pretty much everyone else at the time) that war with Germany was to occur very soon & he did not wish to be kept in what he referred in his biography as a "backwater", & I guess at that time that was what an upcoming RN Officer might see Canada as being. In any event he was back in Uk appointed as Commander in Command of HMS Minerva(Cruiser) in the Channel Fleet. He did not remain in Minerva long, for in fall 1914 he was sent to Egypt & Red Sea for service at the defence of the Suez Canal. He was appointed a Senior Staff Officer at Ismalia, & promoted to Captain on 28 Oct 1915. Macdonald describes many of his activities in his biography, he certainly had an interesting war there, being Naval advisor on the staff of Generals Wilson, Murray, & Lord Allenby. He was present at Lord Allenby's entry into Jerusalem. For his services in Egypt he was awarded the Order of the Nile (Commander grade) LG 11 Aug 1917. At the end of his time in the east he returned to Uk in August 1918 & commanded the Anti Sub base at Torquay, commanding in succession HMS Onyx & Neptune. Macdonald was awarded the DSO in LG April 1919 - " for services on the Staff of the Eastern Forces in Egypt & Palestine during the late war". With the subsequent post war cuts made to the RN he elected to go to pension on 1 Jun 1920. He lived in Hampshire & never returned to Canada. Macdonald died suddenly on a visit to Brambach, Germany on 20 July 1937, aged 67. Macdonald's Obituary published in The Times of 31 July 1937. Its reasonably accurate but the bar to his DSO is incorrect. Macdonald's biography written & published after his death .... Edited 13 April , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 13 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2020 Dear Bryan, A comparatively inexpensive Prussian Crown Order (Class?) would be easy to acquire. The Swedish Order of the Sword (Class?) is another matter. However, the group as you have it is absolutely first-class and an excellent memorial to the gallant and capable Canadian, W. B. McDonald. Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 Many moons ago there was a thread on the most decorated serviceman of WW1. It turned out to be an officer who was an ADC or similar at some HQ and had been handed unusual medals every time a foreign dignitary came to visit his boss. A very impressive group at first sight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 Hi Kim, Thanks you for your kind comments,much appreciated. If it was not for the Canadian connection I would likely have passed on Macdonald's group. His bio makes for very interesting reading & helps fill out his career considerably, he has a lot of detail in there on the Egypt\Suez\Palestine & what is now Israel operations. ie: he gives a description of T.E. Lawrence & mentions going with him to meetings when prince Feisal came from Petra to attend Staff conferences regarding the operations of the Arab army on Lord Allenby's eastern flank. I also expect that during the 3 1\2 yrs he was in the near east he might have learned a fair amount of Arabic as well. The Prussian Crown Order is not rare by any means, I could certainly acquire an example here in Canada, but the problem is they are usually crafted in gold which runs the price up considerably. A few yrs ago I had an RN Officer group(he was Naval Attache at Embassy in Berlin), within it an Order of the Crown & it was in gold as well. The Swedish Order is a different matter, I had the opportunity to acquire a good example here a couple yrs ago, but it was quite expensive, almost C$2K. It is a very attractive Order! Both are Commander class. Macdonald was granted - "private permission to accept & wear." He is possibly wearing the ribbons of those Orders in his photo shown above. In spring 1909 a Russian squadron visited Portsmouth & Macdonald was tasked with taking charge of a group of Tsarist naval officers & men visiting Porstmouth & London. He was not that impressed with them! I thought he might have been awarded one of the Tsarist Orders(perhaps St Stanislaus) on that occasion as well. & Russian Orders are extremely expensive! Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 Agree Phil, if an Officer was on the Staff of a Admiral or General of significance during one of the many foreign visits, it is likely they might be awarded some form of that country's Decoration or Order. Awarding Orders in that pre 1WW era seemed to be "de rigeur"! & of course if you were on the staff of the Royal Family (at their residences or on RY Victoria & Albert or RY Alberta) they would recieve a variety of various foreign awards during the term of their service. I do know King Edward VII made many awards of the Royal Victorian Order during his many travels around Europe. He always carried quite a supply of the various classes with him when he went about on the Royal Yacht. Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 6 May , 2020 Share Posted 6 May , 2020 (edited) Would like to see this topic going for a while so will make an addition....... Captain Charles Ernest HOTHAM, DSC, RN. C.E. Hotham saw action at Jutland as Lieut(N) on HMS Broke & was subsequently awarded DSC & Order of St Stanislaus (Imperial Russia) 3rd class. His entire 1WW service was in Destroyers. He had a varied & interesting career, rising to rank of Captain RN & appointed Captain of the Fleet on the China & Mediterranean stations prior to 2WW. He was definitely marked out for Flag rank & likely would have achieved that in 1940 had he not decided to take his own life in Malta in Jan 1940. A tragic end to a superb career. I will attach a few photos of his medal group & his gravesite in Malta.... Thanks, Bryan Closeup of Captain Hotham medal group..... Closeup of DSC.... Closeups of Order of St Stanislaus 3rd class... (in gold as most Imperial Russian Orders were)..... Small silver Jutland medallion, with its original box....(box is possibly rarer than the medallion!) Closeup of small silver Jutland medallion. It was also crafted in bronze & white metal & I think a few gold examples also. I have been told Jellicoe & Beatty's were crafted in gold & possible other Grand Fleet Commanders also. Edited 6 May , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 6 May , 2020 Share Posted 6 May , 2020 (edited) Photos of Capt Hotham's gravesite at Capuccini Naval cemetery in Bighi, Malta. Also his DSC citation.... Captain Hotham's grave is in foreground, raised on three blocks. Grave stone lettering.... Capt Hotham Funeral procession recorded in the Malta Times....... Partial obituary in Malta Times.... Edited 6 May , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 6 May , 2020 Share Posted 6 May , 2020 (edited) Couple photos taken after Jutland showing some of the damage to HMS Broke during Jutland... Damage to Broke's Rangefinder... Broke's bridge was virtually destroyed ... Edited 6 May , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 6 May , 2020 Share Posted 6 May , 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now