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Kimberley John Lindsay

The Foreigners in my Medal Collection

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Kimberley John Lindsay
Posted (edited)

Dear All,

Only a handful of medal groups in my Collection include rewards of Foreign decorations to the gallant recipients.

Perhaps other GWF members have other shining examples?

The Group of seven includes the Nile 4th class (1933), to Sudan Political Service District Commissioner Henry Godfrey Wedderburn-Maxwell, MBE - who had been Mentioned in 1918 as a 2Lt (A/Major) with the RFA. His older brother won the MC in the Great War, and in 1939-45, the DSO. Their younger brother was KiA as a subaltern on the Western Front....

Great War aWedderburn-Maxwell.jpg.c8555b2166c46882dd7cd78ba8e1a0ee.jpg506655634_H.G.Wedderburn-Maxwell1934.jpg.2954591712d4ce9ce540c2a96fa6a076.jpg354752804_CaptGeorgeBarrettGoyderVD.jpg.189bc744d44f057268d028121163da28.jpg1435310473_GoyderPLH2Apr1909LordMintovisitLahore.jpg.d8cce2cdb1c422cbf55463f79d865bef.jpg1035058285_Apr2019remountedHuntergroup.jpg.5fcedc2c0ad1ace7ab6ec4b75feaf435.jpg1398719453_HunterLtR.JPG.333c8e178646c38e93848836d4b7c7ca.JPG1000891133_CecilLeonardHarlandDecorationCivique.jpg.50c8cc6bea98565b5a1be8905468aaaf.jpgwards include the Order of the Crown and Croix de Guerre (Belg), Croix de Guerre (Fr), to Capt George Barratt Goyder (mentioned twice), IARO and Gen. List attd 36 Ulster Div. (Asst Provost Marshal) - of the Indian Finance Department, and a Volunteer officer (5th Punjab Light Horse).

Also the similar Belgian awards of Crown/CdG to the handsome Lieut. Robert Hunter - a Lanarkshire Yeomanry NCO on Gallipoli, but in 1918, decorated as a Lieut., RFA.

Finally, an obscure British Red Cross and St John of Jerusalem helper (Cecil Leonard Harland: unfortunately no Image), with the unconfirmed 'Decoration civique' - a minor Belgian decoration.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Edited by Kimberley John Lindsay

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GWF1967
2 hours ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear All,

Only a handful of medal groups in my Collection include rewards of Foreign decorations to the gallant recipients.

Very nice groups. Quality over quantity. 

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Coldstreamer

Thanks for the pics. If I ever changed my interest I'd collect exactly this theme. 

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Kimberley John Lindsay
Posted (edited)

Dear GWF1967 and Coldstreamer,

Many thanks for your kind words: feedback is always very much appreciated,

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Edited by Kimberley John Lindsay

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Coldstreamer

Heres one of mine - missing an Papal medal Order of St Gregory

 

 

frg.jpg

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Kimberley John Lindsay
Posted (edited)

Dear Coldstreamer,

Our collecting interests are closer that one would have thought!

Did you manage to find an Image of the MC recipient (name?) with no less than four rather unusual Foreigners (the end one looking like something of Elsass-Lothringen origin)?

Would it be difficult to find a spare Papal St Gregory Order...?

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Edited by Kimberley John Lindsay

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Coldstreamer

Not hard to find just cost prohibitive. 

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

Dear All,

Only a handful of medal groups in my Collection include rewards of Foreign decorations to the gallant recipients.

Perhaps other GWF members have other shining examples?

 

Yes Kim, I have a couple of Foreign awards in my collection.   Thanks for starting this interesting topic.

 

The medal group of Paymaster Captain John Basil Shettle, RN.

Shettle group StAnn.JPG

 

 

Fleet Paymaster Shettle is standing on right of photo behind Vice Admiral Hugh Evan Thomas, CinC of 5th Battle Sqdn, Grand Fleet.

Shettle Barham grp.jpg

 

Adm Evan Thomas' Staff, HMS Barham Flagship of 5th BS Grand Fleet.  Fleet Paymaster Shettle on right.

Evan Thomas group2.JPG

Edited by RNCVR

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

Very brief summary of Shettle's career during & after 1WW.

 

He was Secretary to Admiral Hugh Evan Thomas from 10 Dec 1912 when Evan Thomas was CinC 1st Battle Sqdn - HMS St Vincent.

Evan Thomas then CinC of 5th BS Grand Fleet - HMS Barham Flagship, from 28 Aug 1915 to 1 Oct 1918.

Shettle remained with Adm Evan Thomas when he was CinC The Nore until March 1924.

 

He was awarded the French Legion d'Honneur (Chevalier) 15 Sep 1916 - "for services during present war".

 

& Order of Saint Anna (Imperial Russia) 3rd class with swords - " for services during battle of Jutland" - 1917.

Imperial Russian awards within Royal Naval Officer groups are fairly rare, especially the higher classes of the Order.

 

John Shettle continued to serve until he died in London during an operation fora Brain Tumor - 18 Aug 1938

 

Thanks, Bryan

 

SHETTLE grave, Eye.jpg

Edited by RNCVR

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

I consider the Order of Saint Anna one of the most beautiful of the Imperial Russian awards, they were crafted in gold & enamel & are all hallmarked with kokoshnik & makers markings.

 

Couple closeups of Shettle's St Anna --

St Anne 2.JPG

St Anne1.JPG

Edited by RNCVR

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Coldstreamer

St anne?

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RNCVR

I have heard of both spellings St Anne & St Anna.

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PhilB

What might Shettle’s role have been at Jutland as Admiral’s secretary?:unsure:

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

Hello Phil,

 

I will try to answer your question.   A Flag Officer's Secretary basically handled all of his correspondence & transmitted his orders & instructions to the ships making up his Squadron.

As orders were received from the Grand Fleet flagship he would have to transcribe these for his Admiral, for his comments & response to these orders & these in turn would have to be written out [& perhaps coded] for transmitting to the ships of his squadron. In the case of the Grand Fleet, which was quite large & varied in the way of ships, this would entail a huge amount of correspondence.  There also would have been considerable correspondence emanating from the Admiralty in London.

The Secretary had a staff in order to accomplish this, as in those days everything was either hand written or typed out for transmission. He was also responsible for coding & decoding message to & from the Flag Officer of the squadron, he would have had trained coders on his staff to do this.

 

During a sea battle the Secretary would have been on one of the upper bridges to record exactly what was taking place during the battle. He had to keep the events that were happening recorded for later entry in the Flagship's Log & eventual Admiral's despatch to the CinC Grand Fleet.

 

The Admiral's Secretary, of all the Flag Officer's staff, was closest to him day to day, they worked very closely together & usually a Flag Officer would retain his trusted Secretary from appointment to appointment. Admiral's Secretary would also regulate who got to see to his Admiral as required & record what was discussed during the meeting.  The Secretary had to record everything his Admiral said & did during the tenure of his Fleet command. He likely had shorthand ability as most Writers in the day possessed.

He might also handle some of his Admiral's personal correspondence as required.  Basically every correspondence that came into the Flagship was handled by the Admiral's Secretary, unless it was specifically noted for the Flagship's Captain.

 

n Admiral's Secretary had to be very personable, very tactful, know how to handle difficult situations & resolve them, able to work with senior officers, have one hell of a lot of patience, able to work under stressful conditions, & anticipate the needs of his Admiral. Not every Paymaster was cut out to be an Admiral's Secretary!

 

It took a Paymaster many years service to become an Admiral's Secretary, normally he would have reached the rank of Staff Paymaster before being appointed to an Admiral, & even prior to that he would have worked for several years on the staff of an Admiral's Secretary to gain the experience of working for a Flag Officer.  & if he was good enough & got along with that Admiral he might remain with him for several years. If he was Secretary to a major Fleet Command Admiral he would  have been a Fleet Paymaster. 

Grand Fleet CinC Admiral Jellicoe's Secretary worked with him for 10 years, prior to 1WW & Jutland, & afterwards, including his tour of the Dominions in 1919-20. I also have his medal group. Shettle would have known him & worked closely with him in the Grand Fleet.

 

So I hope that gives you a general idea of what an Admiral's Secretary did day to day Phil. 

 

Thanks,

Bryan

 

Edited by RNCVR

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PhilB

:thumbsup:

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Coldstreamer

I need a 2nd class order of st anne with swords to compliment a Japanese order in a group.  Very hugely in price depending on maker and materials used

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Brian,

Thanks for sharing the first-class J. B. Shettle Group.

He died young - perhaps thanks to the stressful nature of his naval Service...?

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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RNCVR

Thanks Kim, appreciate your kind comments.  Yes, Shettle a very nice group, I got him as I like Paymasters (I have at least 4 more of them in my collection) & I really like the order of St Anne. I have another Paymaster with 2nd class St Anne also & will show him soon.

 

I think Shettle may have had Brain Cancer, altho it says Brain Tumor on his ADM 196.  No idea why he suffered from that.  He was in a London hospital undergoing surgery when he passed away during the operation, had it been later in the century he likely would have survived.

Expect in that time brain surgery was very much risky. He had just been recalled to active duty for the Munich crisis when war looked imminent.

 

Best....Bryan

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RNCVR

Kim, I like your Order of the Nile grouping. I also have an RN Officer Order of the Nile group which I will show as well. He was a Canadian serving in the RN.

Mostly during 1WW in Egypt, Suez Canal,& with Gen'l Allanby's Army in Holy land, today's Israel.

 

Thanks, Bryan

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Coldstreamer
Posted (edited)

I used to have a group due an order of the nile - sold them back to the family  - Id love to get another but I have more chance of finding a unicorn

 

good job for them he wasnt a Coldstreamer !!!

 

 

Edited by Coldstreamer

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Matthew B.

I think this group contains a foreign award you do not see much of:

 

Persia, Empire, Order of the Lion and Sun, Third Class breast badge, 75mm including suspension x 67mm, silver and enamel, with rosette on riband

 

(sorry about the picture quality - I must do a better one soon)

 

Order of the Lion and Sun Third Class, one of only 12 to British Officers to receive the Order for service during the Great War.

 

Matthew

Fulton 2nd15PR.jpg

Edited by Matthew B.

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ForeignGong

Who is the recipient please so I can add the details of the Group to my database.

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RNCVR

That is a very nice medal grouping Matthew! Dont often(rarely) see 3 MiD's in a row.

What was the Officer's name?

 

Thanks for posting, 

Bryan

Edited by RNCVR

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RNCVR

The medal group of Group Captain Henry "Daddy" Dawes, formerly RN, & RAF.

 

Daddy Dawes entered the RN in Jan 1899 as a Boy Writer, earning a prewar Africa Gen'l Service medal on HMS Perseus, In 1913 he was CPO Writer, served thru 1WW as CPO Writer on HMS Campania(Seaplane Carrier), earning his RN LS medal on her in 1916. He then transferred to RAF in March 1918, remained in RAF through the interwar years rising to Wing Commander(Personnel branch), pens'd 1937, recalled for 2WW serving as Chief Personnel Officer for Bomber Command.

His "foreigns" are both for 2WW - USA Legion of Merit,Officer, & Poland, Order of Polonia Restituta (Poland Reconstituted).

 

Thanks, Bryan

 

 

Dawes.JPG

Dawes Polonia.JPG

Dawes group photo.jpg

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PhilB

I notice he’s wearing RAF wings?

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