keithchristmas Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Many thanks to both Don and Charles. I have today found a reference to HMS PRIMROSE on a webside which lists the various ships attached to Queenstown. My search will now be focused upon HMS PRIMROSE during 1917. I would be grateful of any further information upon this ship, and it's service during this year. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindajb2002 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi, I'm researching the history of my granduncle. He was in the royal navy and a signalman. Apparently he served on HMS Colleen. What did HMS Colleen do, and where did she go during the first world war. My uncle served during 1915 and 1919. His service no. BZ4654 15.11.1915 attached to 6th Battalion...... where did that battalion serve? Feb.1916 Entered Signal School Depot. 9.5.1916 Drafted from Signal School Depot S.S./2662 to Chatham Sig. School. 12.5.1916 Enrolment form forwarded to A.G.9. 3.5.1919 W.G.13673B A.B.9b On his Sea Service card it has BRISTOL next to his number. He had 2 medals, and I've been given a very vague description. 1. Angel on the front, ? Great War for Civilisation. Ribbon, purple, blues, green, orange with red stripe in the middle. What is this for? 2. B/RN.B.R.82. British War Medal Victory, with his ID number and name on. Ribbon, blue, black, cream and orange stripe in the middle. King George V on a horse on the reverse side. What is this for? What is the job for a signalman? Where would he have travelled during his time on the HMS Colleen? Any help would be great please. Best wishes Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 he was Mentioned in Dispatches for services in vessels employed on PATROL AND ESCORT DUTY during 1917. If you look in the ADM 12 A&B indexes, for 1917, at Kew (using his surname) you should find a reference to the file with the details behind his Mention in Dispatches. If you confirm the ship was the Primrose, you can also search the indexes to references to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Linda By looking at some of your other posts I saw that you have been looking for the Judge family. Is this your great uncle? Name Judge, Richard Rank or Rating: Ordinary Seaman, Able Seaman Service Number(s): Z/4654 Date of Birth: 7 August 1896 If so he has Royal Naval Division service cards (the 6th Battallon was the clue). Click here if you want to give the National archive another £3.50! It looks like he may have arrived in Gallipoli just before they evacuated! So he should have had 3 medals. The two that you describe are the Victory and British War Medals, the standard campaign medals. Collen was a 'stone frigate' and stayed in place, but he might have moved around the area. Most likely he would ahve stayed where he was as she Collen the base of the Commander in Chief Western Approaches and so a signaller would be kept busy. His job required him to work on signals (mostly flags are wireless/ radio was a different grade). and communications between ships and the command. Best wsihes Per Mare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindajb2002 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi Per Mare, Yes, I have the record that you directed me to in the archives, thank you, and he is my gt.uncle. The information that I posted earlier was all that was on the card from the archives. I've tried to find information on the 6th battalion, but all it comes up with is the 63rd division... it's very confusing to an illiterate navy/army novice. Ref: below about 63rd division. http://www.1914-1918.net/63div.htm Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindajb2002 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi again, I can't even find the reference you gave earlier.... If you look in the ADM 12 A&B indexes, for 1917, at Kew (using his surname) you should find a reference to the file with the details behind his Mention in Dispatches. If you confirm the ship was the Primrose, you can also search the indexes to references to her. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 (edited) 1917 ADM 12/1569A & ADM 12/1569B INDEX to the letter A ADM 12/1570A & ADM 12/1570B INDEX to the letter B ADM 12/1571A & ADM 12/1571B INDEX to the letterC ADM 12/1572A & ADM 12/1572B INDEX to the letters D - E ADM 12/1573A & ADM 12/1573B INDEX to the letters F - G ADM 12/1574A & ADM 12/1574B INDEX to the letters H - J ADM 12/1575A & ADM 12/1575B INDEX to the letters K - L ADM 12/1576A & ADM 12/1576B INDEX to the letters M - N ADM 12/1577A & ADM 12/1577B INDEX to the letters O - P ADM 12/1578A & ADM 12/1578B INDEX to the letters Q - R ADM 12/1579A & ADM 12/1579B INDEX to the letter S ADM 12/1580A & ADM 12/1580B INDEX to the letters T - V ADM 12/1581A & ADM 12/1581B INDEX to the letters W - Z How to use the Admiralty Index and Digest: ADM 12 A quick explanation is that these are the indexes of correspondence to the Admiralty and index personal names and ships mentioned in letters or reports. Glaaentry medals and Mentions in Dispatches have to be approved and each name submitted should be indexed. Edited 18 September , 2006 by per ardua per mare per terram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindajb2002 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Gosh...... I can't understand it... so many links on the pages that it's very complicated. Thank you for your help anyway, I'll have another search later... but I've already typed in his name and it only has one entry, and that's the details that I've already posted.... I can't find any other entry for Richard Judge, but then again I'm not very good searching. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 (edited) Linda, I'm sorry to give you reference overload. My answer to do with ADM 12 is in relation to Keith's post, which I quoted from, as he is researching someone with a mentions in dispatches. Not everything is online and these indexes are original documents at Kew and are very unlikely to have a reference to your great uncle in them. As Richard Judge was in the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve he probably has a service register in ADM 337/7, this is also offline at Kew, on microfilm. His medals should be listed in the medal roll ADM 171/127, the navy did not use medal index cards and they are rarely shown on the online army ones. The evacuation from Gallipoli was in December 1915/ January 1916, so he may have been allocated, but did not serve with them. Can you post a copy of the card and we might be able to give more help. Edited 22 September , 2006 by per ardua per mare per terram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi, I'm researching the history of my granduncle. He was in the royal navy and a signalman. Apparently he served on HMS Colleen. What did HMS Colleen do, and where did she go during the first world war. My uncle served during 1915 and 1919. His service no. BZ4654 15.11.1915 attached to 6th Battalion...... where did that battalion serve? Feb.1916 Entered Signal School Depot. 9.5.1916 Drafted from Signal School Depot S.S./2662 to Chatham Sig. School. 12.5.1916 Enrolment form forwarded to A.G.9. 3.5.1919 W.G.13673B A.B.9b On his Sea Service card it has BRISTOL next to his number. What is the job for a signalman? Hello, Linda, The information above indicates that he was a (quite late) volunteer for Bristol Division RNVR. Have you posted all the information that is on his RND Record Card? On what date did he enlist? 6th Battalion would seem to indicate that he served in Howe Battalion of the RND and the date in November 1915 seems to indicate that he was in the November reinforcement draft (the last) for the RND on Gallipoli. After the abandonment of Gallipoli in early January 1916 he was probably sent to sea service, training as a signaller (visual signalling: morse lamp, semaphores flags, flag hoists, etc - not wireless telegraphy). I believe the 1919 entry refers to his War Gratuity, received on being demobbed. If you do not already have them, you will find his RNVR enrolment papers in the archive of the Fleet Air Arm Museum. H2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindajb2002 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi...... I'm truly overloaded with surfing the pages...... what an headache. Anyway, the only information I have is below: My uncle served during 1915 and 1919. His service no. BZ4654 15.11.1915 attached to 6th Battalion...... where did that battalion serve? Feb.1916 Entered Signal School Depot. 9.5.1916 Drafted from Signal School Depot S.S./2662 to Chatham Sig. School. 12.5.1916 Enrolment form forwarded to A.G.9. 3.5.1919 W.G.13673B A.B.9b - what do all those numbers mean??? His date of birth....07.08.1896 On his Sea Service card it has BRISTOL next to his number. Original message in post #13 Sorry I don't have anything else to add at this moment in time. What a puzzle all this tracking down of ancestors is! Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 (edited) Expanding the reference from the main site: the 6th Battalion (Bn) were known as the Howe Bn. The Bns all served together. After Gallipoli the Royal Naval Division (searching the site will produce a lot of threads on the RND) were reorganised to become an army division and men were sometimes switched around to other roles, as happened with your great uncle, either in the navy or in the army. The RNVR were allocated to various administrative areas and their numbers reflected this, Bristol was one such admin region. Edited 18 September , 2006 by per ardua per mare per terram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindajb2002 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi H2 and per ardua per mare per terram, I've just had another look at Richards paper....... It says..... Rating: O.S. A.B. 13.02.1916 Date of entry: 15.11.1915 Does that help at all? Thank you for the previous messages, I'll digest them in a while... Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi H2 and per ardua per mare per terram, I've just had another look at Richards paper....... It says..... Rating: O.S. A.B. 13.02.1916 Date of entry: 15.11.1915 Does that help at all? Thank you for the previous messages, I'll digest them in a while... Linda Linda, That makes a big difference. His date of entry and date of attachment to 6th Battalion are the same. Therefore, it refers to his training battalion (6th) at the Crystal Palace Depot and he never had anything to do with the RND. I was already suspicious because, by late 1915, the RND battalions were never referred to by number but only by name. So, on completion of his initial training at Crystal Palace, he went straight off to train as a signaller...and the rest is history. Hope that helps. H2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindajb2002 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi H2, So between May 1916 and May 1919 he just was in signal college then! Have I read your comment correctly? His daughter said that the HMS Colleen is on his paperwork.... unfortunately I don't have easy access to his paperwork and records, so I'm only going by what I've been told. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Hi H2, So between May 1916 and May 1919 he just was in signal college then! Have I read your comment correctly? His daughter said that the HMS Colleen is on his paperwork.... unfortunately I don't have easy access to his paperwork and records, so I'm only going by what I've been told. Linda Linda, Not so. Once he had completed his signals training he would have been sent to the Fleet (??late summer 1916??). Not surprisingly, the details of that sea service do not appear on his RND Record Card but will be on his other 'paperwork'. You need to get details from that. I would be surprised if he was shore-based in HMS COLLEEN for the whole of his time. As detailed earlier in this thread, COLLEEN was the base for several small ships and I would expect to see them listed in his main service record. I bet he spent some time bouncing around in small ships in the south-west approaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindajb2002 Posted 18 September , 2006 Share Posted 18 September , 2006 Thank you H2 for making things easier for me to understand. I will at some point try to obtain his paperwork from his daughter. Whatever he did, he lived to a ripe age of 94 years old. The sea air must have done him good. Linda p.s. I'll get back to you in the near future with any other details I may obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithchristmas Posted 19 September , 2006 Share Posted 19 September , 2006 Many thanks to Per Mare for the information provided with regard to the indexes relating to the MID records at Kew. I will follow up this lead with next down South. In the meantime I look forard to receiving any further information that any one can provide relating to HMS Primrose and her war service between 1915-1918. Many thanks, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 22 September , 2006 Share Posted 22 September , 2006 Linda Richard Judge was in the Royal Volunteer Naval Reserve so his sea service register is more than likely in ADM 337/7 (this is at Kew on microfilm) you only have the cards for his land service. His medals should be listed in the medal roll ADM 171/127 at Kew. Horatio2 has inforned you where more detailed records are. Per Mare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Fitz Posted 19 October , 2006 Share Posted 19 October , 2006 I'm looking for any information on John Lawrence Hayde who, as far as I know, served in the Royal Navy Reserves from 1898 to 1920 as a Stoker and served on HMS Colleen during World War 1. Any push in the right direction would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 20 October , 2006 Share Posted 20 October , 2006 Copies of the service records for the RNR are held at The National Archives, Kew in BT 377/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 20 October , 2006 Share Posted 20 October , 2006 Alternatively, if it is more convenient, the original RNR records are at the Fleet Air Arm Museum. You will need his RNR service number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 20 October , 2006 Share Posted 20 October , 2006 Re. RNR records at the Fleet Air Arm Museum. I enquired about a Lieut. Commander RNR & had this reply: "Unfortunately we only hold the records for RNR ratings and not for officers. As far as I am aware RNR officers service records are available at The National Archives in ADM 240." Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roy Stokes Posted 20 January , 2007 Share Posted 20 January , 2007 I recently seen references to HMS Colleen in ships' logs from RN vessels based at Queenstown in 1917. Patrol vessels put sick sailors aboard Colleen and sailors that were to report for an inquiry. It appears to have been an admin or depot vessel of some kind. There appears to be a 'photo' of kinds in Jane's Fighting Ships 1914 representing her type. Does anyone know if there are records: day book or log of HMS Colleen that would record her day to day goings on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lindamaywallis Posted 3 February , 2007 Share Posted 3 February , 2007 hI, I have found my G. Grandfather George Feasby was listed on the Electrol Roll absentism record for York. His 1918/1919 record shows: George Feasby 29246 SPO HMS Colleen. 1920 George Feasby 29246 SPO HMS Samuel Johnson. Could anyone tell a little history, as I know nothing of the ships and navies. Thanks Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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