Private Joseph Bean, Plymouth Batt. RMLI

[Fattyowls]

Private Joseph Henry Bean is my friend Margaret's great uncle, and recently she mistook me for someone who knows something about WW1.

 

She told me his name and that all she knew was he'd been buried at sea. Thanks to the good information on his readily available records and some timely posts on the forum I've been able to work out the basics of his short but eventful war. Working backwards he was killed in the raid at Kumkale on 4th March 1915, was evacuated and as Margaret had said was buried at sea. His name is on the Plymouth Memorial and I was able to find a photo of the panel. Thanks to the thread on the French at Gallipoli I have @Sly's contemporary photos and links to accounts of the Kumkale action from @michaeldr. I am grateful to both. There is also a really interesting thread on Albert Ernest Ganner which revealed that Joseph Bean's Plymouth battalion had arrived at Dunkirk in the first weeks of the war, and again @horatio2 gave me lots of useful information and links for this period. It appears that Joseph Bean has an unusually complete set of service papers which are in the Fleet Air Arm Museum, but are not currently available.

 

I want to write up Joseph's seven months war and I'd appreciate if anyone could help me the following:

 

Without his records is it possible to tell if he had some previous relationship with the Marines or was he an early volunteer?

 

The Plymouth battalion arrived with the RM Brigade in Dunkirk on 19th September 1914, does anyone know its movements in France and when it subsequently returned to the UK? It didn't go to Lille or Antwerp and horatio2 tells me he didn't qualify for the clasp to the 1914-15 Star so he wasn't under fire.

 

Is there anywhere where I could trace his movements from arriving back in blighty and then heading for the Med?

 

Would it be accurate to say that Kumkale is not far from the ancient site of Troy?

 

Pete.

[PRC]

If it's Joseph Henry Bean, ( PLY/16765 ) then his records at the National Archive show him enlisted 24th July 1914 - so presumably still undergong basic training when his battalion went to war.

 

May be more available in the preview version.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7824503

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

[Fattyowls]

30 minutes ago, PRC said:

If it's Joseph Henry Bean, ( PLY/16765 ) then his records at the National Archive show him enlisted 24th July 1914 - so presumably still undergong basic training when his battalion went to war.

 

May be more available in the preview version.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7824503

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

 

That's him Peter; I read the post back and knew I'd left something out but couldn't for the life of me work out what. It's not as if his service number is peripheral to the questions......

 

Pete.

[horatio2]

Entering the Recruit Deot at Deal on 24 July 1914, his recruit training there was cut short by the advent of WW1 and he was moved on to Plymouth Battalion RND after only six weeks recruit training. He did not even go onto the books of HQ Plymouth Division RMLI but joined the RM Brigade as it reformed at Freedown, Walmer on 12 September. When Plymouth Battalion went to France one week later on 19 September he was still, effectively, a new recruit. When on 27 September the GOC  removed his HQ to Cassel, he concentrated Chatham, Deal and Plymouth Battalions there also. However, the recruits of Plymouth Battalion (including Bean), were left at Dunkirk. Thse men eventually rejoined Plymouth Bn. after the RND's withdrawal from Antwerp and returned with them to England on 12 October.

 

After return from France Plymouth Battalion was concentrated at it HQ at Tavistock. At the end of January 1915 they moved to Blandford but, as there was no accommodation in the Camp, they were billetted in local Dorset villages. Scarcely a week later, they were ordered to the Dardanelles and embarked in HMT BRAEMAR CASTLE at Plymouth on 6 February. They arrived at Malta on 14 February, leaving on 19 February. Arrived Tenedos 21 Feb, proceeding to Lemnos on 24 Feb. The transports were then off the Dardanelles entrance and at Tenedos. They were at Imbros in early March, returning to Tenedos on 3 March before the landings on the next day. [All dates per Blumberg.]

[PRC]

If I'm reading the preview correctly, he was aged 17 years, 9 months, 7 days when he enlisted on the 24th July 1914.

 

Further down under "Services Forfeited" it looks like it reads "Under age 24th July 1914 to 16th October 1914" forfeited 85 days, (apologies if any of those numbers are incorrect - the watermark cuts across them). Would he have still have gone to Dunkirk if that was known at the time - there is nothing to suggest that rather precise age was retrospectively added to the form.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Interesting to read that he, with a birth date of 17 October 1896, went to France as a 17 year old, remained in Dunkirk, and did not go on active service to Antwerp with the battalion.

[Fattyowls]

This is just stupendous gentlemen, thank you. From a brief reading the account of the rapid dispatch of the Royal Marine Brigade to France I get the sense that nobody was asking too many questions about age etc.

[Keith_history_buff]

There has been a question raised on the forum before, with regard to just how many soldiers were knowingly underage yet still deployed to France in 1914.
https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/251915-help-please-youngest-british-soldier-at-mons/

Whilst there does seem to have been a trend among pre-war enlistments in the army to over-state their age, in order that they were "officially" close to the age where they could go on Active Service, I had got the impression that those enlisting in the Senior Service did not lie about their age - perhaps this is something to do with them usually having a 12 year term of engagement, my speculation.

[Keith_history_buff]

Fevyer and Wilson, on page 5, have 756 instances of the 1914 Star being issued to RMLI men of Plymouth. They estimate that 425 were eligible for the clasp, and that 323 were issued.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xFG-BAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

[horatio2]

The term "Under Age" does not mean he was too young to serve with the Plymouth Battalion, but that his service under the age of 18 did not count towards his 12-year Continuous Service engagement. There are numerous examples of lads joining as band boys and buglers at age 13-14. Bugler Morris Pughe (Ply/16708) was one such. He enetered the Theatre of War aged 14 years, 2 months, 21 days and  earned the Clasp to the 1914 Star under enemy fire aged 14 years, 3 months, 27 days.

He can claim to be the youngest 'Old Contemptible'.

[michaeldr]

Pete,

 

You may get some useful background info on the life (27 Jan 1915 onwards) of a private in the Plymouth Bn, RMLI, from the first few pages of Martin Middlebrook's "The Diaries of Pte Horace Bruckshaw"

EG: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30468694800&searchurl=bi%3D0%26ds%3D30%26bx%3Doff%26sortby%3D17%26tn%3DThe%2BDiaries%2Bof%2BPrivate%2BHorace%2BBruckshaw%26recentlyadded%3Dall&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1

 

Good luck with your research

Michael

Edited 10 December , 2019 by michaeldr

[horatio2]

A good tip from Michael. For other contemporary accounts try and obtain (via your local library) "From Trench and Turret - Royal Marines Letters and Diaries 1914-18" by SM Holloway. ISBN.13: 978-1-84529-321-5. It has several accounts by officers and men involved in the Kum Kale landing on 4 March and gives the context for Bean's death there, including eye-witness reports of the subsequent burials at sea of the RMLI and Turkish casualties. While the wounded were taken to the hospital ship SOUDAN, the dead were taken to sea in BRAEMAR CASTLE, the Plymouth Bn. transport.

N.B. Pte Bruckshaw records "Seven marines and one Turk were committed to the deep by our chaplain". This is incorrect: six marines were buried at sea on 5 March. They are commemorated on the Plymouth Memorial. Two RMLI died of wounds in SOUDAN on 6 March and they were buried at sea from the hospital ship. They too are on the Plymouth Memorial.  The other No.3 Coy dead were not recovered from Kum Kale and they are commemorated on the Helles Memorial, having no known grave.

 

[Uncle George]

11 hours ago, horatio2 said:

 

After return from France Plymouth Battalion was concentrated at it HQ at Tavistock. 

I apologise for barging into this thread, but I’d be grateful if you could give me a steer toward information about this HQ. I was brought up in Plymouth and live in Tavistock - I have an interest in local history but have never heard anything about this. Thanks for any help.

[horatio2]

Blumberg states: "After the return from Antwerp ... the Battalions remained at their own headquarters, Chatham at Gravesend, Portsmouth at Browndown, Plymouth at Tavistock and Deal at the Depot with Brigade Headquarters also at Deal. Here they absorbed their recruits and new officers and completed their organisation until the end of January 1915."

Pte Bruckshaw (see michaeldr Post #11) recorded "Friday January 29th 1915 - Left Tavistock with many regrets at 8a.m. en route for Shroton, a village near Blandford in Dorset."

I have no further details of the Tavistock camp at present. I would be interested if you can find out anything locally.

Edited 10 December , 2019 by horatio2

[Uncle George]

43 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

Blumberg states: "After the return from Antwerp ... the Battalions remained at their own headquarters, Chatham at Gravesend, Portsmouth at Browndown, Plymouth at Tavistock and Deal at the Depot with Brigade Headquarters also at Deal. Here they absorbed their recruits and new officers and completed their organisation until the end of January 1915."

Pte Bruckshaw (see michaeldr Post #11) recorded "Friday January 29th 1915 - Left Tavistock with many regrets at 8a.m. en route for Shroton, a village near Blandford in Dorset."

I have no further details of the Tavistock camp at present. I would be interested if you can find out anything locally.

Thank you. I’ll let you know what I discover.

[seaJane]

Medical officers' account of the landing at Seddul Bahr and Kum Kale here pp. 281-285:

https://archive.org/details/JRNMSVOL11Images/page/n295 

[horatio2]

17 hours ago, Fattyowls said:

 

Without his records is it possible to tell if he had some previous relationship with the Marines or was he an early volunteer?

Although there are numerous Beans in the RMLI, I can find no other with a link to Liverpool/Everton. Almost certainly an early volunteer.

17 hours ago, Fattyowls said:

The Plymouth battalion arrived with the RM Brigade in Dunkirk on 19th September 1914, does anyone know its movements in France and when it subsequently returned to the UK? It didn't go to Lille or Antwerp

Plymouth Battalion did not go to Lille. Portsmouth Bn, went to Lille on 28 September. Plymouth Bn. did go to Antwerp - they lost ten men in action there 5-8 October.

17 hours ago, Fattyowls said:

Would it be accurate to say that Kumkale is not far from the ancient site of Troy?

Correct. The site of Troy is within a mile or so south of the village of Kum Kale and 2 1/2 miles from the coast where No.3 Coy landed.

Edited 10 December , 2019 by horatio2

[Fattyowls]

Many thanks for the clarifications H; it all drops into place now. I knew that Troy was close but I didn't realise that it was as close as that. I'll summarise what I've now got and let Margaret know, the responses have been fantastic and I just know she'll be really pleased. I'm going to pick up some of the photos from the thread on the French at Gallipoli and might re-post them to make sure I caption them correctly.

 

Jane, thanks for yet another good link; I've gone from knowing next to nothing to having to sift lots of information to get the nub of the story for Margaret. I predicted that the forum would come up trumps but this is spectaklier........

 

UG, not a problem asking about Tavistock, I'm certainly interested and as it is I've already barged into two other threads with questions about Bean. And if it adds to the general knowledge I'm all for it.

 

Pete.

[Uncle George]

Joseph Bean’s name doesn’t seem to be on the attached, but according to this article (which is also the source of the photograph):

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/gallery/behind-protected-gates-stonehouse-barracks-2492302

 

there are “multiple rolls of honour” in the Chapel of the Royal Marine Barracks in Stonehouse, Plymouth. Your friend Margaret may wish to contact ‘Chaplaincy, RM Stonehouse, Durnford Street, Plymouth PL1 3QS (Telephone: 01752 836397)’ to see if Joseph is listed. I understand that relatives are welcome to visit.
 

 

Edited 10 December , 2019 by Uncle George

[seaJane]

If no luck with the Chaplaincy I have a retired RM friend in Plymouth who may be able to oblige, though I can't promise anything.

[Fattyowls]

Thanks UG and Jane (sounds like it should be a name of a band), the different places he is remembered is a good idea for an additional section. I've just looked up the church where he was baptised and it is long gone; the location is now part of the entrance to the new Mersey tunnel. There used to be a Horatio Street opposite it which is apt I think, given Horatio2's expert input above.

 

What I'm going to do is to write up the chronology for Margaret with a few notes, as she says she knew nothing about Joseph or WW1 prior to mentioning it. Rather than present her with something resembling a phone book I'll do it in installments.

 

Thanks again to all for the continuing interest and erudition,

 

Pete.

[Fattyowls]

I'd just like to pass on Margaret's gratitude for everyone's assistance. I've sent her a running commentary and some of Sly's photos from the 'French at Gallipoli' thread. She's gone from a name and the memory of a family story to having the complete record with pictures and more to come if I can find it. I told her at the outset that you lot were brilliant and I was spot on

 

Thanks again,

 

Pete.

Edited 19 January , 2020 by Fattyowls
Fat finger moment

[seaJane]

Happy to have been able to help, Pete. Best wishes to Margaret.

[seaJane]

PS there is some discussion of Kum Kale and Sidd-ul-Bahr in On Four Fronts with the Royal Naval Division by Geoffrey Sparrow and James Ness MacBean Ross, both surgeons RN (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1918) available online here -  https://archive.org/details/onfourfrontswith00spar/page/n10.

 

sJ