Help Please: Youngest British Soldier at Mons

[Guest]

Hello. I have a fairly urgent* request. Can anyone tell me;

 

1. How old was the youngest British soldier known to have served in the BEF at Mons. (not later than Mons) in Aug 1914.

2. How old was the youngest British soldier known to have been killed at Mons (not later than Mons) in Aug 1914

3. How many 15 year-olds served at Mons

4. How many 16 year-olds served at Mons

 

Ref CWGC: three 15 year-olds were killed in  France and Belgium in 1914 and fifteen 16 year-olds killed in 1914. It is unclear if any served at Mons. One died on 13th Aug in France (Cameron Hilghlanders who were the GHQ troops so unlikely to be at Mons) and another on 26th Aug 1914 -  a Gunner in 124th Bty RFA. The remainder died after the arrival of first reinforcements on 5th Sep 1914 so it is impossible to tell whether they were with the original cohorts without trawling the 1914 Star medal roll....and then I would need to do some hard yards in the Census to check DOB. 

 

The answers to 1 and 2 above might be the same. Almost certainly a bugler.  Many thanks 

 

 

 

* I need the info for an obituary that has to be submitted to the Daily Telegraph tomorrow. I have been asked to check the facts and of course I need to get the facts right. My thoughts are that no-one actually knows. My subject's father was a 16 year old at Mons. Royal Engineers. 

[EDWARD1]

Richard van Emden`s Boy Soldiers of the Great War pg40......"At Mons the units formed up and took part in the first set piece engagement of the war. It was there that a young private by the name of James Price  of the 2nd South Lancashire Regiment  was killed. He was sixteen and quite possibly the first underage soldier to die on the Western Front."

Eddie

[Guest]

On 22/07/2017 at 04:10, EDWARD1 said:

Richard van Emden`s Boy Soldiers of the Great War pg40......"At Mons the units formed up and took part in the first set piece engagement of the war. It was there that a young private by the name of James Price  of the 2nd South Lancashire Regiment  was killed. He was sixteen and quite possibly the first underage soldier to die on the Western Front."

Eddie

 Thanks Edward..

 

Any Idea how old he was exactly? Do we have a date of birth?

 

 

As an aside I am not quite sure I would agree with Van Emden that 16 was 'underage'. This is back-fitting modern standards/perceptions/morality to a prior age. It was perfectly legitimate at the time in the regular Army for certain roles. It simply required the CO's approval for serving boy soldiers in the pre-war Regular Army to embark on active service. Given at least 18 died in 1914, it would suggest many more served. As boy soldiers their age would have been known. There must have been a few hundred under the age of 18 serving with the BEF in France and Belgium in Aug 1914 (1914 Star records over 350,000 men in total). This group of Mons Boys is distinctly different from the subsequent flood of TF and New Army who exercised less stringent controls on age. 

 

 

[ss002d6252]

On 22/07/2017 at 04:30, QGE said:

 Thanks Edward..

 

Any Idea how old he was exactly? Do we have a date of birth?

 

 

 

As an aside I am not quite sure I would agree with Van Emden that 16 was 'underage'. This is back-fitting modern standards/perceptions/morality to a prior age. It was perfectly legitimate at the time in the regular Army for certain roles. It simply required the CO's approval for serving boy soldiers in the pre-war Regular Army to embark on active service. Given at least 18 died in 1914, it would suggest many more served. As boy soldiers their age would have been known. There must have been a few hundred under the age of 18 serving with the BEF in France and Belgium in Aug 1914 (1914 Star records over 350,000 men in total). This group of Mons Boys is distinctly different from the subsequent flood of TF and New Army who exercised less stringent controls on age. 

 

 

'Officially' he was 18 years and 150 days on enlistment in to the army on 1/12/1913 but it appears the family supplied the age of 16 as it's on the CWGC records.
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7375235%2f4%2f67&fulfillmenttypekey=6630

 

The census shows he was born 1898 - http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1911%2frg14%2f32290%2f0457%2f3

 

Craig

[Guest]

On 22/07/2017 at 04:53, ss002d6252 said:

'Officially' he was 18 years and 150 days on enlistment in to the army on 1/12/1913 but it appears the family supplied the age of 16 as it's on the CWGC records.
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7375235%2f4%2f67&fulfillmenttypekey=6630

 

The census shows he was born 1898 - http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1911%2frg14%2f32290%2f0457%2f3

 

Craig

 

Thanks Craig.

 

Either way if he had lied about his age in 1913, he was still among many young men/boys who were in the age range of 15-16. It is the absolute age rather than the claimed age that I am focused on. 

 

 

[GrenPen]

Not the youngest by a long chalk, but the following two individuals were below the active service cut-off of 19 years, based upon actual age. They served in the 1st Battalion, South Wales Borderers.
 

10866 Frederick Ernest Mayston was born in Battersea, London. When he enlisted on 10 August 1912, he stated that he was born (28th) March 1894. He survived the war, resided in Liverpool and passed away in the second quarter of 1974. From his GRO records, his death record records his D.O.B as 28 March 1896. His birth was registered in the Wandsworth district in 1896.

 

10827 Edgar Lewis Delan has been mentioned on the forum before. He enlisted late June 1912 and gave a false age. He was born on 12th September 1895, so was actually a month below the age of 19 years when he was sent to France in August 1914. I have only come across one man of the 1st Battalion South Wales Borderers who was killed in 1914 and whose service record has survived, and it wasn't his, so his declared age at enlistment is not known. He died at Langemarck on 21 October 1914.

 

[GrenPen]

The following men are similarly understood to have been younger than 19 years when they served with the South Wales Borderers: