Guest D729LEE Posted 6 February , 2005 Share Posted 6 February , 2005 Forum Can anyone furnish me with reasons for the use of an alias. Has a study been made, or has anyone any knowledge of the person in question. No.9389 L/Cpl. George Robert Ingle (aka Robert Barlow as per medal stamping) of the 1st Bttn. Lincs. Regt., KIA. 03/07/1916 aged 36, of Gainsborough, Lincs. I am sure that many underage boys joined as aliases and people trying to dodge the law, wives, responsibilities, etc., but is there any way of finding out? Cant seem to find him on the 1901 census, however his parents are there. Lee in Lincs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D729LEE Posted 6 February , 2005 Share Posted 6 February , 2005 He was an early entrant as his name appears on a 1914 Star. LinL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 6 February , 2005 Share Posted 6 February , 2005 Hi Lee, I have often wondered about this myself. I have a pair of medals to 414806 Pte. George Edward, 5th Canadian Mounted Rifles, Killed in Action 14 Sept.,1916. His attestation paper gives this name, plus a birth date in 1893, so he couldn't have been underage. He was also listed as single, and a labourer, with his next of kin a sister. On his service file is the notation "The true name of this soldier is Ernest Edward George..."His CWGC entry is listed under his true name with the notation "served as Edwards", which also must be in error, as he enlisted as Edward, not Edwards. There must be a story in here somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 6 February , 2005 Share Posted 6 February , 2005 Men likely had an alias to avoid this type of situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadawwi Posted 6 February , 2005 Share Posted 6 February , 2005 There were also other reasons for an alias - in Canada you had to have a parent's permission to enlist at a certain age, therefore, there were some who took on another name to avoid this. I have one obituary where the mother received the death notification for her son, and had no idea he was in the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 February , 2005 Share Posted 6 February , 2005 As a matter of pedantic semantics, is not a military alias a "nom-de-guerre" ? Unless he was a writer as well, in which case ................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clairec79 Posted 6 February , 2005 Share Posted 6 February , 2005 It may be as simple as his natural father had died and then mother remarried and he used his stepfather's name (possibly to fit in with brothers and sisters) despite his orignal name being the legal one. Or parents never married and mothers name on the birth certficate but used fathers anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D729LEE Posted 7 February , 2005 Share Posted 7 February , 2005 Thank you for your ideas, ladies and gentlemen. This is the first time I have come accross a medal in my collection with an alias question mark over it. As you say, there must be a story to it, and I feel I must have a bit of a dig round. Whatever I find I will post, I'll start with the census entries and certificates for the family. Once again, thank you all. Lee in Lincs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D729LEE Posted 8 February , 2005 Share Posted 8 February , 2005 Chaps/Chapesses Found our little alias in 1881 aged 8 months born in Laceby, as SD states the brother of Edith Alice (2yoa)b. Alford, Harry B.(4yoa)b.Littleboro, Notts., son of Sarah Ann (25)b. Littleboro, Notts., and Henry Ingle (25)b. Gate Burton, Lincs., living in Laceby, A POLICE CONSTABLE !!!! This may tell me something, we may have a bit of a rebel on our hands. More digging required. Lee in Lincs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 8 February , 2005 Share Posted 8 February , 2005 Lee In the 1891, they were living at Packet Wharf, Gainsborough. Edith is no longer living with them but they have an additional boy, Charles E, aged 8. By this time, Dad is shown to be a Steam Packet Porter. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 8 February , 2005 Share Posted 8 February , 2005 Lee Have you considered that George Ingle may have been using the name of Robert Barlow prior to enlistment? I ask because on the 1901 census, there is a 20 year old Robert Barlow shown as being born in Grimsby and living as a boarder at the home of Mary Clare, a 39 year old widow. The address is Spitalgate/Grantham. I can’t find a match for him on the 1891 or 1881 census, so it's possible that it's your man. And as for the surname “Barlow”? Well, the various census records show us that George Robert Ingle’s mother, Sarah Anne, was born in Littleboro, Nottinghamshire in around 1856. Jumping forward 20 years, the register for December 1876 for East Retford in Nottinghamshire (Volume 7b, Page 23), records the marriage of Henry Ingle and Sarah Ann Barlow. So one scenario could be that George has had a falling out with his father and has left home. Also, he has decided to use his middle name and his mother’s maiden name to lose himself, for whatever reason. And all this before he joined up. Makes some kind of sense, doesn’t it? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D729LEE Posted 8 February , 2005 Share Posted 8 February , 2005 Steve I've been rooting through the 1901 census and saw the Barlow name as you mentioned in Grimsby. Went for a look at some military volunteers in London, where a George Ingle was found. Found GRI's Mum & Dad in Gainsborough, he a Molten Metal Worker and Edith Alice an Elementary Teacher. Why give up been a copper? Maybe not too well paid in those days. you seem to have hit the nail on the head with the marriage in East Retford. (This place keeps popping up in my family history researches and in my life in general, some links to the place.) You must be a mine of information to have come up with this so quickly. I was going to the St. Catherines House index in Hull library on my next days off to see if I could suss anything out. Looks like you saved me a trip, though I think I'll add some provenance to his 1914 Star to an early 1st Lincs Somme casualty by going for the various certificates. It still has me wondering why an alias for so long, and why? Steve - you are a star. Thank you so much for your input. if you can come up with any other thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Cheers mate. Lee Johnson, Scawby, Lincs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 9 February , 2005 Share Posted 9 February , 2005 Lee Can’t add much to what we’ve already discussed, I’m afraid. With regard to GRI’s father, Henry Ingle, he’s a Farm Servant in the 1871 census, Police Constable in 1881, Steam Packet Porter in 1891 and Metal Worker in 1901. Seems to have tried most things GRI’s birth was recorded in Caistor in Lincolnshire in the September quarter of 1880. Volume 7a, Page 656. As mentioned earlier, Sarah Ann Barlow married Henry Ingle in East Retford, Volume 7b, Page 23. Interestingly, her father was Robert Barlow, so perhaps that explains GRI’s middle name (and subsequent alias). Not sure if you know, but you can order these certificates online at www.gro.gov.uk Let me know if you need any further help. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Lines Posted 9 February , 2005 Share Posted 9 February , 2005 I have the 15 Star and papers to a Canadian soldier who reinlisted under a false name because he was wanted as a deserter under his original name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 9 February , 2005 Share Posted 9 February , 2005 Alan Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Why desert then try to re-enlist? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted 9 February , 2005 Share Posted 9 February , 2005 Lee Hope you are well and still using the Dying Gladiator. From a contact in Gainsborough, Robert Barlow is on the Constitutional Club Roll of Honour. Other info he has provided coutesy of the GAinsborough news is he appears on the casulty list 8/8/16. He has him as the son of Henry and Sarah Ann Ingle. Hope of use Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff. Hobson Posted 9 February , 2005 Share Posted 9 February , 2005 I am sure there were quit a number of reasons for enlisting under an alias, two that I came across Simpson/Evans V.C. Lincs., sorted out by Bob Coulson on this Forum. Another Tommy Bostock-Fox also Lincs., discharged on medical ground re-enlisted under Tommy Fox, same Regt., and same Batt., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 9 February , 2005 Share Posted 9 February , 2005 You will see that from signature at the foot of this post, that having a surname such as mine (which is not that common) might not always prove to be a benefit in time of war. I suppose one reason that could be added to the list is that to the superstitious it could be regarded as tempting fate. I have discovered that 79 British men with my surname were killed in the Great War. Of those I have so far found three examples who chose to serve under other names...perhaps for this reason. Two of them chose Smith as their alias and their sacrifice is recorded on the memorial at Thiepval and on the memorial at the back of Tyne Cot cemetary. The other is buried in a known grave. I would be interested to hear of any other Lucks who chose not to risk tempting fate. The other Lucks I know of are the eight German ones buried in the mass grave at Langemarck and recorded on the memorial there. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 9 February , 2005 Share Posted 9 February , 2005 Hello I have a ww1 pair to a man who served before 3 times - he used a variety of names and trades - only admitting all to claim his pension! And he got one! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D729LEE Posted 10 February , 2005 Share Posted 10 February , 2005 Forum Coldstreamer, thats a complicated one to sort out, I bet you had some fun with that one. bcerha I wouldnt have thought yours was a common name, I came accross the name a number of times when i worked in Germany. Carl - Heinz Luck of the 21st Panzer Div. Knights Cross holder and hero of Caen/Falaise. A good soldier and not such a good Nazi, thankfully for the soldiers who came to be his prisoners. Cliff. Hobson In my studies I have come accross these names before, though I had no idea they had this background. I will be taking a closer look. Chris Still hitting the Dying Gladiator, but he refuses to go down. Also hitting the Black Bull, the White Hart, the White Horse, and lets not leave out dear old Nelson, with his glorious anniversary upon us. The birds are all the same, too. Just a bit more wrinklier. (I don't think thats a word) The Cons Club, Gainsborough, I'll be having a visit there, too. that was a bit of a find. I wonder if William Edward Paling is on it? He 's another 1st Bn. KIA 03/16 from Gainsborough. Oh, and by the way, remember the 1st/2nd Bn. manning print outs, well there are two of my collections men in the B coy. 2nd Bn. 8886 Pte John William Sturman KIA 01/07/16 again residing in Gainsborough, I have his D/Pq. and also A coy 2nd Bn. 7799 Pte John Edward Hall, of Newark I found his BWM. HQ Bermuda. Looks like the fiche reader is going to get some hammer at the library. There is a L/Cpl "J" Barlow in the A coy. 1st Bn. with a close No.9319 rather than 9389, a mistake maybe. We see them all the time. You are a star, Chris. Any more Lincs gear I find will be copied and brought to you. Cheers. Steve Nulty Indeed why desert and re-enlist. Whats that all about. Get away to sort out some personal/home problem, wants to avoid the punishment, so what better camoflage than to join up again. they won't look for him there. Don't forget you were liable to be shot in that not so PC/bleeding heart time. Oh, and once again, thanks for the fantastic info, I must admit to being a family history buff and on the various lists I try to help people with their projects. Its nice to be able to share info and enthusiasm on a subject. I generally write to the respective Registrars Office for certificates, though I might try ordering through the web address you gave. Cheers to another absolute star player. Alan Lines Again, someone trying to dodge the punishment, and who blames them. I was guilty of an AWOL myself on a couple of occasions, both down to women of course. Thanks to you all, as always if I can help in any way when I see a posting, I will always do my best. Lee in Lincs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Lines Posted 12 February , 2005 Share Posted 12 February , 2005 Alan Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Why desert then try to re-enlist? Steve Certainly does Steve. He was shot in the backside, head and suffered from shell shock. He had family in the U.K and somehow managed to get back to Canada. He then re-enlisted under an alias for unknown reasons. He later admitted his real name whilst the War was still on. Quite a mystery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 30 April , 2005 Share Posted 30 April , 2005 Attached is a photo taken in Bailleul Communal Cemetery (Nord) last weekend of the headstone of Septimus Armstrong who served under the name of F Douglas in the AUstralian Field Artillery 12th Brigade (147, Driver). Here is the listing from CWGC: (Served as DOUGLAS). Son of Francis and Elizabeth Armstrong, of 100, Constitution Rd., Dulwich Hill, New South Wales. Native of Sydney, New South Wales. Why would this man use an alias? It is obviously not a matter of being underage as he was 33 when he died on 25.6.1916. ANy ideas gratefully accepted. Thanks Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted 30 April , 2005 Share Posted 30 April , 2005 Come across this one at the Le Touret cemetery last year,while looking up some men from Rutland. The family name of Shelvey. Do not know where he fits in with the family. keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aodhdubh Posted 7 May , 2005 Share Posted 7 May , 2005 I recall that the American writer, Edgar Allan Poe, had a nephew who enlisted, in Canada or the UK, under an alias. He was killed in action at the Front. I don't know if this was because of his nationality, although I know many Americans enlisted in UK and Commonwealth forces, prior to the US entry into the War. The Bermuda International Airport is still known as Kindley Field, which it was once named by the US Air Force, after an American aviator who served in the RFC. Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 7 May , 2005 Share Posted 7 May , 2005 Not sure if this chap can be called an alias- he served under following Sgt. Soame, Richard Everard Buckworth Herne of the K.S.L.I. His real name was Buckworth-Herne-Soame, Richard Everard, son of Sir Charles Buckworth-Herne-Soame, 10th Bart., and Lady Buckworth-Herne-Soame, of Horsehay. So he used all his correct names but not in the correct order, I guess he did not want anyone to know he was the son of a 10th Bart. (what ever that is). Also I think this chap is related ? 11758 Pte. Soame, Charles B. B. H. of the K.S.L.I. ? I have several other alias amoung the K.S.L.I., each time I come across one, I always wonder what their reason was. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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