19mac79 Posted 7 January , 2023 Share Posted 7 January , 2023 I know I'm very late to the party here, but I have just purchased a tunic in the exact same construction as Andrews SH tunic, however mine has holes in the shoulder straps for a captain. Sadly, like Andrews tunic, it has been stripped of it's insignia but has the same SH style three button cuffs, false waist belt and double/wide seam at the rear along with cutaway front. As soon as it arrives I'll post a picture. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 7 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2023 8 hours ago, 19mac79 said: I know I'm very late to the party here, but I have just purchased a tunic in the exact same construction as Andrews SH tunic, however mine has holes in the shoulder straps for a captain. Sadly, like Andrews tunic, it has been stripped of it's insignia but has the same SH style three button cuffs, false waist belt and double/wide seam at the rear along with cutaway front. As soon as it arrives I'll post a picture. Better late than never It sounds very interesting, and I look forward to seeing how it compares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Hopefully you can see the image. The tunic is very tasty but has the same construction as yours. Same cutaway front, same rear detail etc. The tunic came completely stripped of insignia. I've tried to return it to a 'trench' tunic for 13th battalion (Scottish horse) black watch serving in Salonika. That was supposed to say 'tatty'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Before anyone mentions the yellow tabs being to high up on the shoulder straps, I copied it off a Salonika tunic I once owned many years ago...... Found in a skip with the chaps hat, named etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6RRF Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 I don't mind admitting my ignorance... The yellow straps on the shoulders ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 I forgot to say Andrew, apologies for the delay in posting the pics. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Just now, 6RRF said: I don't mind admitting my ignorance... The yellow straps on the shoulders ? They were the divisional sign for the 27th infantry division. Though they were usually placed at the bottom of the shoulder strap (make that pretty much always haha). Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6RRF Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Unusual one, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 12 minutes ago, 6RRF said: Unusual one, thanks No problem at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 23 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2023 (edited) On 22/01/2023 at 18:19, 19mac79 said: I forgot to say Andrew, apologies for the delay in posting the pics. No problem, it's lovely jacket, obviously "right", and helps add weight to the authenticity of mine. Are the Overseas Service Chevrons on yours as found? If they are it could be an indicator that some rounding of the skirts was being done in the late or possibly early post-war period. Edited 23 January , 2023 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 57 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said: No problem, it's lovely jacket, obviously "right", and helps add weight to the authenticity of mine. Are the Overseas Service Chevrons on yours as found? If they are it could be an indicator that some rounding of the skirts was being done in the late or possibly early post-war period. Thanks Andrew. Regarding the overseas chevrons, there were stitch marks in the shape of the chevrons so I added an original set I had. I couldn't think of any other insignia that would be that size and shape and in that position of the arm. From my limited research and drawing layman's conclusions, I believe the rounding of the skirts is to do with the 13th battalion black watch. To me, It's the only reason why they'd round the front skirt on a mounted units tunic, ie when it became dismounted and converted to an infantry unit. Obviously I'm no expert at all, but it makes sense in my head haha. Both your tunic, Andrew, and mine are of pre war style. Not all officers or senior NCOs had oodles of money (many in my old unit didn't come from money), tunics we're reused, retailored etc. I have a beautiful 1902 pattern cuff rank tunic that's had the cuff rank removed and used by a warrant officer. All interesting stuff anyway. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 30 January , 2023 Share Posted 30 January , 2023 On 23/01/2023 at 19:21, Andrew Upton said: No problem, it's lovely jacket, obviously "right", and helps add weight to the authenticity of mine. Are the Overseas Service Chevrons on yours as found? If they are it could be an indicator that some rounding of the skirts was being done in the late or possibly early post-war period. Hi Andrew, I may have another twist to the 'our' tunics. Google Transvaal Scottish tunic WW1. I think this is what they actually are. There were 4 Transvaal Scottish buttons I the pocket of my tunic. I simply dismissed them. I've done some googling this morning after seeing something at stoneleigh yesterday and came across the tunics with the exact same cut as 'ours'. I still believe they're WW1 but now think they're TS. Kind regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 January , 2023 Share Posted 30 January , 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, 19mac79 said: Hi Andrew, I may have another twist to the 'our' tunics. Google Transvaal Scottish tunic WW1. I think this is what they actually are. There were 4 Transvaal Scottish buttons I the pocket of my tunic. I simply dismissed them. I've done some googling this morning after seeing something at stoneleigh yesterday and came across the tunics with the exact same cut as 'ours'. I still believe they're WW1 but now think they're TS. Kind regards Andrew That’s interesting and would seem to answer why there are as yet no photos of Scottish Horse officers and warrant officers wearing cutaway jackets. Edited 30 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 30 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, 19mac79 said: I may have another twist to the 'our' tunics. Google Transvaal Scottish tunic WW1. I think this is what they actually are. There were 4 Transvaal Scottish buttons I the pocket of my tunic. I simply dismissed them. I've done some googling this morning after seeing something at stoneleigh yesterday and came across the tunics with the exact same cut as 'ours'. I still believe they're WW1 but now think they're TS. Transvaal Scottish does seem to be an excellent match, even down to some tailoring details. Interesting to note that they and the Scottish Horse both have direct formation links to the 7th Duke of Atholl, which is presumably where the similarities in uniform design originated (they both also use the Murray of Atholl pattern as their regimental tartan for example). Do you have a picture of the buttons it came with? It appears they used a number of different patterns over the years and that might be some further indication of date. Edited 30 January , 2023 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 30 January , 2023 Share Posted 30 January , 2023 4 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: Transvaal Scottish does seem to be an excellent match, even down to some tailoring details. Interesting to note that they and the Scottish Horse both have direct formation links to the 7th Duke of Atholl, which is presumably where the similarities in uniform design originated (they both also use the Murray of Atholl pattern as their regimental tartan for example). Do you have a picture of the buttons it came with? It appears they used a number of different patterns over the years and that might be some further indication of date. Hopefully the images attach. I can only find three of the four buttons at the minute but I'll keep looking. They are Transvaal Scottish volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 30 January , 2023 Share Posted 30 January , 2023 7 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: That’s interesting and would seem to answer why there are as yet no photos of Scottish Horse officers and warrant officers wearing cutaway jackets. Im trying to find photos pre WW1 in serge but struggling. I can find WW1 pics but they were part of the South African Scottish so appear to have lost their 'cuffs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 January , 2023 Share Posted 30 January , 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, 19mac79 said: Im trying to find photos pre WW1 in serge but struggling. I can find WW1 pics but they were part of the South African Scottish so appear to have lost their 'cuffs'. Yes I wasn’t able to find anything either, although it was a niche unit and so such images would naturally be rare. We have to remember to remind ourselves that it was over a century ago. Edited 30 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 30 January , 2023 Share Posted 30 January , 2023 43 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes I wasn’t able to find anything either, although it was a niche unit and so such images would naturally be rare. We have to remember to remind ourselves that it was over a century ago. Yes absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 30 January , 2023 Share Posted 30 January , 2023 From what I can gather the Transvaal Scottish volunteers was the units pre WW1 name so hopefully the buttons are of this period. Where I'm going to get a set of tsv buttons from I don't know....think I'll stick with the leather ones for now haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 January , 2023 Share Posted 30 January , 2023 45 minutes ago, 19mac79 said: From what I can gather the Transvaal Scottish volunteers was the units pre WW1 name so hopefully the buttons are of this period. Where I'm going to get a set of tsv buttons from I don't know....think I'll stick with the leather ones for now haha. Yes, they’ll be like hen’s teeth, but rarer… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 31 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2023 18 hours ago, 19mac79 said: Hopefully the images attach. I can only find three of the four buttons at the minute but I'll keep looking. They are Transvaal Scottish volunteers. 16 hours ago, 19mac79 said: From what I can gather the Transvaal Scottish volunteers was the units pre WW1 name so hopefully the buttons are of this period. Where I'm going to get a set of tsv buttons from I don't know....think I'll stick with the leather ones for now haha. That seems to match what I found earlier for the period. Not difficult as such to find from an online search, but certainly one that will take more than a little time and some money without luck to put a good set together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19mac79 Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 4 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: That seems to match what I found earlier for the period. Not difficult as such to find from an online search, but certainly one that will take more than a little time and some money without luck to put a good set together. I agree, Andrew. I have found a UK dealer who has 4 of the pocket size buttons for £24 plus pnp so not astronomical, however as there's the 8 smaller buttons to find plus two more of the larger type it will definitely start adding up and that's providing I find the others for sale.......we shall see haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 1 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2023 20 hours ago, 19mac79 said: I agree, Andrew. I have found a UK dealer who has 4 of the pocket size buttons for £24 plus pnp so not astronomical, however as there's the 8 smaller buttons to find plus two more of the larger type it will definitely start adding up and that's providing I find the others for sale.......we shall see haha. I have sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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