James William Pearson dob 14/10/1896

[Lahana]

Looking to further my research into Pte James William Pearson of Northumberland Fusiliers 19th Service Battalion 2nd Tyneside Pioneers, dob 14/10/1896. I believe he enlisted Nov 1914, his battalion first saw conflict at the Battle of the Somme, July - Nov 1916; then July 1917 at Third Battle of Ypres he was wounded and 4/8/1917 shipped home wounded and convalesced at Whinney House, Low Fell, Gateshead. He was awarded the Victory, Silver War & British medal. Any greater detail or a photo would be greatly appreciated, thanks

[George Rayner]

Good morning and welcome to the forum.

Do you have his service number? There are a few James (William) Pearsons showing up. Do you have access to any subscription sites like Ancestry or Find my Past?

 

George

[MaxD]

This is almost certainly 19/491 James William Pearson of 19 Bn Northumberland Fusiliers who also served in 10th Bn NF and who received a Silver War Badge when invalided out in March 1919.  Enlisted 12 Nov 1914, born Beamish Co Durham.

 

Could this be him?  There are service records on Findmypast and Ancestry - do you have a sub to these?

 

Max

[George Rayner]

That is also the soldier I was favouring.

Does it say eczema in the notes

 

George

[MaxD]

Yes George, links with the dermatitis and erythema (skin rashes) noted also.  The age though in the Nov 1914 dated medica exam does not add up, it says 25 which would give 1889 year of birth.  The hospitals and convalescence don't include Whinney House.

 

Hence not too confident until we hear from Lahana.

 

In any event, the papers don't give anything on his service.  

 

Max

[Lahana]

Hello and thanks, apologies for such a late reply I had completely forgotten I posted on the forum. I was almost certain it was service number 19/491 but after seeing birthplace Beamish and year 1888 now know it’s definitely not. So all I know for certain is he was definitely in the Northumberland Fusiliers, shot in the arm, spent time recuperating at Whinney House, Low Fell, Gateshead.  I downloaded details some months ago which I thought were irrelevant but now have taken a better look for Service No. 78108 and the address I am almost certain was his, but it is 3rd Reserve Battalion and doesn’t fit with the history. I am more intrigued than ever, if you can help

[MaxD]

Need to take stock.

 

It is 19/491 who was shot in the arm etc but you are saying the date of birth and the place mean he isn't your James William Pearson.

 

78108 has the Cuthberts Road address on enlistment to the Northumberland Fusiliers and served overseas with 9th Royal Fusiliers.  He is just William and did not serve overseas until 1918 so he doesn't fit at all.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lahana said:

So all I know for certain is he was definitely in the Northumberland Fusiliers, shot in the arm, spent time recuperating at Whinney House, Low Fell, Gateshead.  

 

Not the case, what you know for certain is that 19/491 has that record but you don't believe this is him because you don't agree the Beamish birth or the age so we haven't yet found your James William

 

Max

Edited 19 May , 2020 by MaxD
typo

[IPT]

James W Pearson, born 14/10/1896, appears to be living at 45 Southway, Gateshead, with wife Beatrice, on the 1939 register.  I can't see the original myself, but occasionally there is a note about previous service. Worth a look anyway.

 

 

[MaxD]

No clues there.

 

Max

[corisande]

If we start with what the OP believes is true, that is his dob in Oct 1896

 

The only James William Pearson born in that quarter in England, was registered in Gateshead

 

The then appears in , from FmP, the 1901 and 1911 censuses

 

 

 

The 1911 census is at 202 St Cuthberts Road which seems close to the 35 St Cuthberts Rd in FmP

 

And the transcription of Northumberland Fus records on FmP _ Click . Previous posters on the thread have mentioned this man below

 

First name(s)	James William
Last name	Pearson
Residence	Gateshead
Address	36 St.Cuthberts Rd
Enlistment year	1881-1920
Service number	78108
Rank	Private
Battalion	3rd(Res)
Transfer to/from	To Royal Fusiliers(9th Bn)(17/8/18)
Notes	R.Fusiliers No.GS/79466

 

My conclusion is that this is the likely man sought, although I have not analyzed the 1911 census to ascertain if another James William might have lived in 35 St Cuthberts Rd in 1911

 

[corisande]

17 minutes ago, corisande said:

I have not analyzed the 1911 census to ascertain if another James William might have lived in 35 St Cuthberts Rd in 1911

 

One can quiz the census data for Pearsons living in St Cuthberts Road, Gateshead in 1911, and there are 3 families at 100, 202 and 208. But only the one James, who is the chap in my post above

[RaySearching]

Who is the man in question 

Is he a relative if so let the forum pals have a list of his relatives 

If not what is your interest in the man in question

where has the information that he was wounded and  convalesced  at Gateshead originated from 

The forum pals need some clues to assist you

 

 

Ray

[MaxD]

Some excellent lateral thinking Corisande  - I believe you have nailed 78108.

 

Neither of the candidates appears to fit the story in the first post so Ray's query is the one to be answered.

 

Max

[corisande]

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

Neither of the candidates appears to fit the story in the first post so Ray's query is the one to be answered.

 

That is the nub of it. As with a number of queries on the forum recently, the thing is to separate fact from legend, and unless there is regular feedback from the poster, then it is well nigh impossible to progress

 

We need to know if the poster has his medals

 

The hospital referred to is this one

 

Great War Britain Tyneside: Remembering 1914-18

By Jo Bath

 

 

[Lahana]

Wow! Thanks for all the interest and responses; greatly appreciated. I live in Australia so time difference might make my replies a few hours.

 

James is my grandfather, my mum’s dad. My mum was the youngest child and is alive and has given me all the details she can remember. Ive had a interest in family history for years and picked up bits and pieces but lately began looking much closer and timelining all my immediate branches.

 

I found the Service No 19/491 years ago from the Medal Card but no other details than that. When I took another look last year it seemed to fit but a few nights ago I found the Medical Record mentioned in a earlier post and determined with the birth year 1888 and Birthplace Beamish it couldn’t be who I was looking for.

 

Earlier this year I had a Find My Past subscription and I took records from it to look at when I had more time (the subscription has now expired). I printed off but didn’t think it relevant at the time, the Record Transcription British Army, Northumberland Fusiliers 1881-1920; I have the hard copy and it states:

First Name:  James William

Last Name:  Pearson

Residence: Gateshead

Address:  36 St Cuthberts Rd

Service No. 78108

etc etc

 

Not only did the Pearson live on St Cuthberts Road, the address my mum remembers is: 36 Snowball Terrace - which she know for a fact was at the top of St Cuthberts Road; coincidental?

I’m back looking at my grandad’s life and recording his timeline; I have quite a lot of information, birth certificate, marriage, all the census, 1939 Register and obviously my mum too. 
 

So this is definitely what we know: 

James William Pearson, went by the name of Bill (his father’s name too), born 14 October 1896, 31 James Street, Gateshead.  Father was a Master Bookbinder, born Glasgow, mother Edith from Stockton on Tees. James was the first born, then Harold 1897, then Charles 1900, Thomas 1903, Christine 1905 and Mary 1909 all born in Gateshead, where father worked as a Bookbinder in Melbourne Street, Gateshead.

 

There was a photo of James (Bill) in his soldier uniform hanging in their house for years, but it is lost now unfortunately. James hardly ever spoke of his war experience but little bits came out over the years. His daughter asked him how he had a scar on his arm and he told her it was when he was in the war but she didn’t want to know about that. He sometimes mentioned how they were given rum before going over the top, but he never had any as he knew it was better to have a clear head. His wife Beatrice often reminisced about how they had come to meet - James was convalescing at Whinney House, LowFell, Gateshead (in the same area as the family lived) he saw Beatrice walking along the road nearby and began talking to her. 
 

After the war James also went to Ireland; he hated it. His daughter assumed he was a soldier, but now we wonder if it was the Black and Tans.

 

Hope this gleams some light on working out my grandad’s story

 

much appreciated

 

 

[ss002d6252]

Interesting - I hadn't realised Whinney House had been a VAD hospital - it's not far down the road from me (and 45 Southway is a 5 min walk away).

 

Snowball Terrace was listed under St Cuthberts in the local trade directory - https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DUR/GatesheadTerraces

 

Not much left of St Cuthberts Road these day, there's a road and little else.

 

https://maps.durham.gov.uk/OLBasic2/Index.aspx?appid=72

As it was around 1919 ish

 

Craig

[MaxD]

That is very useful indeed but surfaces the dilemma.

 

78108 William Pearson medal card is here:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4578771  the associated medal roll shows he served in France with the Northumberland Fusiliers 8 8 1918 to 18 8 1918 and then with the Royal Fusiliers 19 8 1918 to 30 8 1918.  This all adds up with the Northumberland Fusiliers record and the census details posted by Corisande.

 

The location details support this being your man also.

 

What it does not do, as pointed out previously, connect with the original family story of his war service.

On 27/09/2019 at 03:56, Lahana said:

I believe he enlisted Nov 1914, his battalion first saw conflict at the Battle of the Somme, July - Nov 1916; then July 1917 at Third Battle of Ypres he was wounded and 4/8/1917 shipped home wounded and convalesced at Whinney House, Low Fell, Gateshead. He was awarded the Victory, Silver War & British medal

 

I find no Silver War Badge,

 

Max

 

 

[corisande]

1 hour ago, Lahana said:

After the war James also went to Ireland; he hated it. His daughter assumed he was a soldier, but now we wonder if it was the Black and Tans.

 

He did not join the Black & Tans. The RIC register is easy to interrogate.

 

There are no Pearsons born in Durham .

 

There is one James W Pearson born 16 Oct 1886 in London

 

Whatever he might have been doing in Ireland was nothing to do with the Black & Tans

 

 

[ss002d6252]

Where does the date of his wounding come from ? Do you have some documents ?

Craig

[corisande]

His wife Beatrice often reminisced about how they had come to meet - James was convalescing at Whinney House, LowFell, Gateshead (in the same area as the family lived) he saw Beatrice walking along the road nearby and began talking to her. 

 

I am a little worried at this. As far as I can see he married Beatrice Barnfather in Gateshead in Oct-Dec 1925, which seems a long time after the end of the war

[Lahana]

He went to Ireland before they married. There was huge unemployment in Tyneside after WW1 so getting married and having children with that happening wasn’t a good start. Very confident about the Whinney House part of the history as knowing the area and where Beatrice lived  and where allotments were it fits

[corisande]

13 hours ago, corisande said:

We need to know if the poster has his medals

 

Do you have the medals, if so it has has service number on them

 

How do you know he had a Silver War Badge - there is no record of one being issued to a Pearson  of that sort of Date of Birth

 

I we can separate the facts that are provable, like date of birth, date of marriage , etc, then we stand a better chance of nailing this down

 

My feeling at the moment is that the man from 36 St Cuthberts Rd / Snowball Terrace is him (78108). Everything fits - except, and a big except, the wounding and SWB

 

There is a way that he might have been wounded, recovered, discharged, then re-joined in 1918. But to have been discharged, he would certainly have to have had a SWB, and we cannot find that

[Lahana]

Thanks for the responses.
 

In answer: after I thought his Service No. was 19/491 I looked at the battalion history and assumed this history was my grandad’s - so now that I’m not confident this number is his, we have no knowledge whatsoever of when he enlisted, where he went or anything other than what we definitely know in my long previous post.  We have no idea when he was shot or when he convalescenced but he definitely had a scar on his arm and he said it was from the war and we are very confident it was at Whinney House, Gateshead. I’ve asked my mum numerous times if it was definitely the Northumberland Fusiliers and she says he was definitely in a uniform in the photo and always believed it was the NF.

 

After reading about the reputation of the Black and Tans, it’s nice to hear you don’t believe it was. All I can tell you about that part of his history is he would say they were marching down the street and were spit on by the people they passed - he was appalled.

 

interestingly I thought of having a quick look for brother Harold’s war record as he would have been of age too and found nothing for him either 

 

It’s a small world, to the person living local in Gateshead 👍🏻

 

thanks

[ss002d6252]

5 minutes ago, Lahana said:

 

It’s a small world, to the person living local in Gateshead 👍🏻

Even smaller at the moment !

 

Where does the date of his wounding come from ?

What details do you have on Harold ? - quite often it turns out that family history can confuse parties.
 

Craig

[Lahana]

we never saw medals, and the type of man he was it wouldn’t be surprising if he had not kept them - he felt war was a terrible thing after his experience. It was only due to considering service no 19/491 was him that we believed he had been given the SWB