George Giffin - decorated soldier

[corisande]

The original thread on this man was removed (without explanation) by the OP after a fair amount of work was done by a number of forum members. I am starting a new thread on the same subject as I think that the conundrum is solvable

 

It starts with an obit in 1950 to an "A S Giffin" Who claimed all sorts of medals.

 

It was established at neither  A S Giffin nor the more likely George Albert Giffin had earned these medals

 

 

So who was  A S Giffin? And why is it thought that he was G A Giffin?

[David Earley]

The obituary claims that he was a founder member of the British Legion. It it possible to contact them to see if they have a list of founder members in their archives?

David

[ss002d6252]

I think in light of the original deletion we probably need to tread sensibly on this but in principle there shouldn't be a problem with trying to research his service.

 

Craig

[corisande]

The puzzle is to try to link  George Albert Giffin to the man who died in 1950

 

The only possible death recorded in 1950 is George A Giffin died Westminster aged 59,( born circa 1891)

 

There is also the same man in 1939 Register with DOB 1882

 

 

I cannot find a marriage of him to the lady living with him

 

The note on the register may imply that she was in fact "Richards" . I am not sure what "O/W" means, it might me "otherwise"

[GreyC]

Hi,

if he worked at County Hall, and County Hall was indeed run by the county and he a county employee there should be biographical material at the County´s Record Office that might help solve the question. Usually their should also be a short CV.

GreyC

Edited 11 September , 2019 by GreyC

[ss002d6252]

Middlesex Chronicle of 1945

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000227%2f19450901%2f144&stringtohighlight=giffin councillor
 

Craig

[corisande]

I then go to George Albert Giffin

 

1. He was born 26 Nov 1882, Maryboro, Mountmellick  Queens Co ,

 

2. There is a family tree that I think accurate on Ancestry - click . His brother William Charles Disraeli Giffin was commissioned and appears to have got DSO and MC

 

3. George Albert Giffin joined the British Army at some point. And was serving in India when he married in 1908

 

4. He is in the 1911 census with the army in India

5. Very little available on his war service, but there is a MIC

[corisande]

He disappears after the war, but there is a pension card that is probably the clue as to what happened to him

 

 

The two clues here are

 

1. His address is given as White Hart Hotel, Omagh, Tyrone

 

2. He was discharged 22 Jun 1922, and the address he gave was c/o Ruddick , East St, Whitburn. The Ruddick family were there in 1911 census

 

 

 

[corisande]

I was breezing along at this point, then hit the buffers

 

I cannot link George Albert Giffin to anyone in that family. I had expected to find the Grace Caroline (Richards?) from 1939 register as one of the daughters of the Ruddick household. But the closest in age (from age in 1939 register) is Edith

 

I cannot get a link to him at Omagh (though post 1922 research in Northern Ireland is very difficult). But as his pension entitlement was transferred to Ulster in 1923, it is probably safe to assume that he was living there

 

I cannot establish what he was doing in WW1. If you accept the logic above he served in Sherwood Foresters from early (probably around 1900) to 1922. There is no indicaton that he had MM nor DCM (one can be more definitive that he did not have DCM)

 

It is really odd that he claimed all these decoration. But he certainly was a CQMS when he retired.

 

As an aside can anyone say what the illness "DAH" was on pension card

[MaxD]

The pre 1901 dob asset list (sheet 6) has D/33653 G A Giffin 26 Nov 1884 KRRC  - the article has that fine regiment.  The number on the pension card is a post 1920 Sherwood Foresters number.

 

D/33653 belongs to Trooper Albert Horner and D/ is a cavalry prefix.

 

DAH - disordered action of the heart

 

More pieces, still no picture on the box!

 

Max

Edited 11 September , 2019 by MaxD
addition

[corisande]

1 minute ago, MaxD said:

More pieces, still no picture on the box!

 

Yes we are doing the edges, without getting to the core

 

I have sorted out what the White Hart was in Omagh on his Pension Card , and what George Giffin was doing there

 

It was a base for the Ulster Special Constabulary (a body of men who are happily outside the scope of this forum). George was a Clerk there, apparently from when he left the Army in 1922 to at least 1924. He gave evidence in a fraud case against the Major commanding the Platoon. (I have seen a lot of these cases)

 

It is an interesting aspect on voting in Northern Ireland too. But again outside the scope of this forum

 

 

[ss002d6252]

So, if he was a councillor in London and worked for the local council how did his name change from 1945 where the newspaper has him as G A to A S in 1950 ? I'd imagine changing names for a councillor isn't an easy task and would set tongues wagging.

 

EDIT:

There is a George Albert Giffin in Lewisham/Wandsworth throughout the 1930's.

Craig

[corisande]

1 minute ago, ss002d6252 said:

So, if he was a councillor in London and worked for the local council how did his name change from 1945 where the newspaper has him as G A to A S in 1950 ? I'd imagine changing names for a councillor isn't an easy task and would set tongues wagging.

 

I think that the answer is that the newspaper must have the wrong initials

 

We have him as GA in 1945 newspaper that you quoted, and he died in GRO as GA in 1950, and was in 1939 register as GA

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, corisande said:

 

I think that the answer is that the newspaper must have the wrong initials

 

We have him as GA in 1945 newspaper that you quoted, and he died in GRO as GA in 1950, and was in 1939 register as GA

That would be the most obvious explanation but ...

Craig

[helpjpl]

Is this him?:

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/special-collections/lot.php?specialcollection_id=122&lot_id=232462

 

JP

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, helpjpl said:

Is this him?:

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/special-collections/lot.php?specialcollection_id=122&lot_id=232462

 

JP

I'd say so - service number would be in the right range.

Craig

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Could Grace Griffin be his sister? Does the register not suggest her married name was (sometime after 1939) Richards?

Edited 11 September , 2019 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[ss002d6252]

2 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Could Grace Griffin be his sister? Does the register not suggest her married name was (sometime after 1939) Richards?

That's what I would wonder for the surname, the register was being updated with married named until the late 70's, early 80's.

Both are listed as married on the 1939 census and they are the only two in the house - of course, they could be brother and sister with spouses who were not in the house on the day of the register. Grace was born 1 Mar 1899.

 

Craig

[MaxD]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

I'd say so - service number would be in the right range.

7151 was his SF number (medal card on the original thread).

 

Ani ideas on the asset list number and regiment and pension record seeming anomalies?  A SF post 1920 number on his pension card, a cavalry number on his asset listing but regiment KRRC.

 

Max

 

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

This is his birth certificate.

26 Nov. 1882 (Registered 1 Jan 1883), Main Street, Maryborough, Queen's County (Co. Laois). (Mountmellick District).

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02748/2009690.pdf

Edited 11 September , 2019 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

No Grace Giffin found in Ireland's births between 1880-1910.

[helpjpl]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

Both are listed as married on the 1939 census and they are the only two in the house - of course, they could be brother and sister with spouses who were not in the house on the day of the register. Grace was born 1 Mar 1899.

 

Craig

 

1 minute ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

No Grace Giffin found in Ireland's births between 1880-1910.

 

George and Grace may not have married if he was still legally married to Violet nee Crosse.

 

JP

[corisande]

He is still in Dublin with his family in 1901 census

 

[corisande]

The 1911 medal was Delhi Durbar and was sold on ebay in 2015, so he was still in India at that time

 

[edited to correct sale date]

Edited 11 September , 2019 by corisande

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 minutes ago, helpjpl said:

George and Grace may not have married if he was still legally married to Violet nee Crosse.

 

Agree, there's no marriage between George Giffin and a Grace in any year.

Checking other spelling variations.