John Rees Thomas Rees 293 Brigade, RFA RWF

[Guest]

Hi, 

Reading this topic has got me really curious and I did not know it was possible to go this far in researching information.  I have been researching information of my grand uncles who served in the war and have been killed or missing but my search has came to a halt due to missing information... 

 

Now I have been to the memorial and cemetry of them in the somme finding out more information about the area hoping to get a lead but I sadly did not. I live in Holland what makes it harder to look for information in the UK. I am hoping somebody could help me finding some source of information.

 

This is the information I got:

 

Brother 1

Name:Shoeing Smith Corporal Rees, John

Service number: 604153

Birth: March 16, 1885

Died:27/03/1918 

"D" Bty. 293rd Army Bde. 

Royal Field Artillery

 

Son of Thomas and Ellen Rees, of fourcrosses, Caernarvonshire; husband of Mildred Edith Prior(formerly Rees), of havencroft farm, Hargham Rd, Attleborough Norfolk. 

 

Location grave:

Beaulencourt British cementry, Ligny Thilloy

Grave number: I. F. 13.

 

Brother 2

Name: Serjeant Rees, Thomas 

Service number 16093

Birth: August 21, 1892

Died: 22/04/1919 Age 26

13th Bn. Royal Welsh Fusiliers

 

Son of Thomas and Ellen Rees, of Henbandy,  Fourcrosses, Chwilog. Carnarvon. 

 

Location memorial:

Poziers memorial 

Stone number 36.B

 

Hopefully somebody can guide me to the right way, 

 

Regards

David. 

 

 

 

[Michelle Young]

Welcome  aboard David. I have split this into a separate topic as it also concerns a soldier in the RWF. 

 

Michelle 

 

[charlie962]

16 hours ago, Daffyd said:

"D" Bty. 293rd Army Bde. 

The war diary for 293 Bde is here at Discovery National Archives to download at 3.50 a throw. Not quite sure why there are two parts.

WO 95/205/7

WO 95/205/8

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

The Territorial Force renumbering in 1917 shows John Rees RFA has a number originally issued:

604001 – 606000: Shropshire Battery, RHA

 

There is an old thread on this forum with a related discussion here  see post 14 onwards in particular

 

@David Porter  might well be along shortly to throw more light ?

 

Charlie

Edited 7 September , 2019 by charlie962

[charlie962]

16 hours ago, Daffyd said:

Died: 22/04/1919 Age 26

I think you mean 1918 ?

[Michelle Young]

6 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

The Territorial Force renumbering in 1917 shows John Rees RFA has a number originally issued:

604001 – 606000: Shropshire Battery, RHA

 

There is an old thread on this forum with a related discussion here  see post 14 onwards in particular

 

@David Porter  might well be along shortly to throw more light ?

 

Charlie

I split this query off that thread as Daffyd also mentioned the other soldier  in the RWF. 

 

Michelle 

[charlie962]

2 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

I split this query off that thread as Daffyd also mentioned the other soldier  in the RWF. 

Michelle, I'm confused ? Where is the Rees Artillery thread and where is the Rees RWF thread ?

[clive_hughes]

Hi Daffyd,

Sergeant Thomas Rees was a 1914 (about October) recruit at Pwllheli for the 13th (1st North Wales, "Pals") Battalion RWF (113th Brigade, 38th Welsh Division).  Born Abererch, next of kin living at Chwilog.  His father Thomas and mother Ellen received his back pay and war gratuity. 

 

He was a Lance-Corporal when he went overseas with his unit in early December 1915.  Sometime later he was attached to the 19th Pioneer Battalion [note: not a RWF battn.], but then returned to his unit.  He was away from the unit on a few occasions, maybe sick or wounded: and likely got back to the UK on one occasion. Given that his unit was involved in battles such as Mametz Wood, Somme July 1916 and Pilkem Ridge, Ypres July 1917 this isn't unlikely.  When he returned the final time to France he was sent to his old battalion again, and was killed in action when 113th Brigade attacked Bouzincourt Ridge above the town of Albert, on the Somme, 22 April 1918.  They suffered heavy losses.  

 

The battle site hasn't changed much, and you can see exactly what happened as they struggled up the muddy slope under heavy fire.  His body could not later be identified, so he is remembered on the Pozieres Memorial to the missing.  

 

Clive

PS - I can't see the topic split either, so I'll reply here for the moment!  

1 minute ago, clive_hughes said:

 

 

Edited 7 September , 2019 by clive_hughes

[Michelle Young]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Michelle, I'm confused ? Where is the Rees Artillery thread and where is the Rees RWF thread ?

It's now post# 1 of this thread. Daffyd  tacked his enquiry onto the thread you linked to, so as it concerned two soldiers, I split it into this new one. 

 

Michelle 

[charlie962]

Thanks, Michelle. Forgive my slow uptake !

[David Porter]

John Rees was born Llanarmon, Caernarvonshire, but enlisted in Shrewsbury.

1/1st Shropshire RHA became A/293 on August 20, 1916.

Easy to see how he might be transferred to D/293 by March 2018.

Also stayed at Beccles and Worlingham prior to overseas, so no big surprise at a marriage in Norfolk.

[PRC]

On 06/09/2019 at 20:17, Daffyd said:

Brother 1

Name:Shoeing Smith Corporal Rees, John

Service number: 604153

Birth: March 16, 1885

Died:27/03/1918 

"D" Bty. 293rd Army Bde. 

Royal Field Artillery

 

Son of Thomas and Ellen Rees, of fourcrosses, Caernarvonshire; husband of Mildred Edith Prior(formerly Rees), of havencroft farm, Hargham Rd, Attleborough Norfolk. 

 

Location grave:

Beaulencourt British cementry, Ligny Thilloy

Grave number: I. F. 13.

 

13 hours ago, David Porter said:

John Rees was born Llanarmon, Caernarvonshire, but enlisted in Shrewsbury.

1/1st Shropshire RHA became A/293 on August 20, 1916.

Easy to see how he might be transferred to D/293 by March 2018.

Also stayed at Beccles and Worlingham prior to overseas, so no big surprise at a marriage in Norfolk.

 

The most likely marriage seems to be that of a John Rees to a Mildred E Goddard which was recorded in the Wangford District of Suffolk in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1916.

The Wangford Civil Registration District included Beccles and Worlingham, (both Suffolk).

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/wangford.html

 

It may be a coincidence but the 1911 Census of England and Wales includes a 24 year old live in Housemaid, Mildred Edith Goddard, born Whinbergh, Norfolk, who was on the census return for a retired medical practitioner and his wife, William and Catherine Crowfoot, living at Blyburgate House, Beccles. (Whinbergh is now shown on the maps as Whinburgh but in the past both spellings and others were used)

 

It may also be a coincidence that the birth of a Blodwen M Rees, mothers maiden name Goddard, was recorded in the Mitford Civil Registration in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1917.

 

Note – if the correct marriage and birth have been identified then the relevant marriage and birth certificate will have some details of his military status such as rank and unit, (although it may be no more than Royal Field Artillery). Sometimes the information given is far more detailed.

 

The Mitford Civil Registration District is centred around East Dereham in Norfolk, so getting closer to Hargham, but still a little bit away. It does however include the Civil Parish of Whinburgh.

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/mitford.html

 

I see the Commonwealth War Grave Commission website has a Concentration Report attached to their webpage for John. His is one of at least 7 men exhumed from marked graves at map references 57c N 11 8B 1.4

(For comparison Ligny Tilloy British Cemetery on the same report is shown as map reference 57c N 8 D 6.4)

He was identified from both the cross and an envelope found on his body.

The report of the exhumation is dated 24th October 1919.

 

The CWGC website has this to say about that cemetery, which is now known as Beaulencourt British Cemetery, Ligny-Thilloy.

 

The cemetery was made originally by the 3rd, 4th, 43rd and 58th Casualty Clearing Stations, which were posted in Beaulencourt at different periods after the middle of September, 1918; and the burials from these hospitals are in Plot I, Rows A to D. It was greatly enlarged after the Armistice by the concentration of graves from the neighbouring battlefields and from certain other cemeteries, including:- BEAULENCOURT CHURCHYARD, in which two soldiers from the United Kingdom were buried by the enemy in 1918. BEAULENCOURT GERMAN CEMETERIES, one a little North of the village on the West side of the road to Bapaume, and another at the Southern exit of the village. These two cemeteries were used by German medical units in 1916 and 1918; and they contained, besides German graves, those of 50 soldiers from the United Kingdom and New Zealand, which have been removed partly to Beaulencourt British Cemetery, and partly to Favreuil. GREVILLERS GERMAN CEMETERY, on the road from Grevillers to Bihucourt, in which 500 German soldiers and 12 from the United Kingdom were buried by the Germans, and eleven New Zealand soldiers and one from the United Kingdom by their comrades in August, 1918.

Source: https://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/62500/beaulencourt-british-cemetery,-ligny-thilloy/

 

I suspect that John was buried by the Germans, but I can not find a record for him at the International Committee of the Red Cross website, nor a missing persons type of enquiry.

 

There also doesn’t appear to be a soldiers will or civil probate for him.

 

He isn’t on the War Memorial for Beccles and I don’t believe I’ve come across him on any of the mid-Norfolk War Memorials. He’s definitely not at East Dereham and not on the original Whinburgh War Memorial unveiled at the end of the war according to the local press reports. If you find out anymore about where Mildred might have lived then I’ll certainly take another look and also check out local press reports.

 

Depending on her circumstances, (i.e. if she was an householder), then she would have been old enough to qualify for the vote when the 1918 Representation of the People Act extended the right to vote to some women. May be worth checking Ancestry \ FindMyPast to see if any of those for Norfolk for that period are available.

 

The marriage of a Mildred E Rees to a Stanley Prior didn’t take place in the Mitford District until Q4 of 1925 so she won’t be absent from the Electoral Register for that reason.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

Edit Sunday 10.50 a.m.

 

On the 1891 Census the 3 year old Mildred E. Goddard, born Whinburgh, was recorded living at “Park Farm Cottage”, Manor Farm Lane, Whinburgh. Head of the household is her married mother Hatta E Goddard, (aged 31, born Whinburgh), who records herself as “Dependent on Husband in Hospital”. Hatta also has another daughter Katie M. Goddard, aged 1 and born Whinburgh.

 

The birth of a Mildred Edith Goddard, mothers’ maiden name Cross was recorded in the Mitford District of Norfolk in Q2 of 1888. The birth of a Katie Muriel Goddard, mothers maiden name Cross, was recorded in the Mitford District in Q2 1890.

 

On the 1901 Census the 13 year old Mildred was staying with her aunt and uncle at the shop part of 6 Queens Road, Kensington. Aunt Kate Richards, (26), was born Whinburgh while her uncle was born Notting Hill.

 

Her mother Hatta E. (41) and father Alfred, (40, Agricultural Labourer, born Shipdham) plus four siblings were living at Park Farm Road, Whinburgh.

 

By the time of the 1911 Census Alfred, (49), is recorded as a Fish Dealer and Publican at the Ship & Anchor, Westfirld, East Dereham, (the address was in the parish of Whinburgh). He and Martha “Eliz.” had then been married 27 years and have had 9 children, of which 7 were then still alive.

 

The Norfolk Pubs database records that Alfred was the landlord from the 6th January 1905, with Hatta taking over from the 1th July 1930. They were succeeded by two members of the Cross family, which given Hattas’ maiden name, may well have been relations.

http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/norfolkw/westfield/westfsa.htm

 

Again, John Rees wasn’t on the Roll of Honour for Westfield published in the early 1920’s.

 

I suspect like many young women in her circumstances Mildred returned home to live with her parents, although she could have gone to stay with other relatives.

 

Edited 8 September , 2019 by PRC
1) Typo 2) Additional information about Mildred

[Guest]

The information you all gave me is astonishing. I am really grateful for the help that is provided. I would not have found this information without the help. 

 

I have made an ancestery line of the family, will still need time to process this information.  Any new information that is found I will share. 

 

Thanks again, 

 

David