293 Brigade, RFA

[andalucia]

Hi all.

Looking into a guy who died serving with the 293 Brigade,RFA. He was injured 14th April 1917 and died 22nd. So Battle of Arras I assume. I am hopeless with units, regiments etc. I have tried a google for his brigade but can not find much out. Anyone know any of their movements up to his date of death.

Cheers

Ant

[daggers]

1912???

[andalucia]

Sorry.

1917. it was meant to be.

[daggers]

The LLT info shows that it was a Welsh unit*, TF, but no indication of its movements. Can you give his name and what else youhave?

D

Added

Was he Dvr TJ Rutter, 696030? The CWGC entry for him shows the cemetery where he was buried holds many who died in the Battles of Arras.

D

Amended. *not welsh, but originally London based, a second line TF brigade.

D

[andalucia]

Yes Daggers thats him.

He was from Hoylake so A welsh unit would be no suprise. SDGW have him signing up in Liverpool. He was injured in both legs and died 8 days later.

A lady from Liverpool is his Great niece and I just thought I would try and track any of his movements, Battle of Arras seems certain for him though so thats more than she knew.

Cheers

Ant

[daggers]

Another snippet. Thomas Rutter's number is in the batch allocated to the Divisional Ammunition Columns of 55th & 57th west Lancs Divisions in the 1917 renumbering. One of those is probably his original unit, and he was transferred to 293rd early in 1917. His medal index card shows only that number, with no 1915 Star.

D

[andalucia]

Thank you Daggers.

[David Porter]

Here is his SDGW entry:

Name: Thomas Rutter

Birth Place: Liverpool

Death Date: 22 Apr 1917

Death Location: France & Flanders

Enlistment Location: Liverpool

Rank: DVR.

Regiment: Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery

Battalion: Territorial Force

Number: 696030

Type of Casualty: Died of wounds

Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

I know that 1/1st Shropshire RHA and 1/1st Glamorgan RHA were attached to 293rd Brigade RFA in August 1916 ("A" & "B" batteries respectively). They were at Heytesbury until going overseas from Southampton on January 21, 1917. There is a book by Derek Harrison that follows the Shropshire battery and this is a summary of what it says:

The 293rd was made into an Army Brigade and was no longer connected to the 58th Division. They were at Lucheux, 17 miles SW of Arras, for 6 weeks after landing in France until ordered into the line at Pommier with billets at Warlincourt. When the battle of Arras started they had moved via Wailly and were preparing a position at Beurains, whilst being billeted in barns at Achicourt. They were soon moving forward again and by the end of April 10, 1917 they were at a sugar refinery at Neuville Vitasse. Another move took them to St. Martin. During the second stage of the battle of Arras they were attached to the 56th, 34th and 31st Divisions. It was intensely cold and some men froze to near coma state. (There is nothing actually written for April 14, 1917, in fact dates are difficult to gauge with just movements and action described after this time).

[andalucia]

Thank you David, great info

[andalucia]

I have passed the info onto the family. They are very grateful and want me to thank you all.

They are adding Thomas to the Liverpool and Merseyside Wartime Website.

Cheers All.

Ant

[eairicbloodaxe]

Hi there

Hope this is the right place to post this question. Mods please move it (or tell me to move it!) if not

I'm trying to track down details of one Edward Southcott Smith who (I believe) was in 293 battery RFA. Although I've also found records with him in 393! And sometimes the records say RHA.

I know he was injured (gunshot to arm) sometime before 27th June 1917, as that's when he was received at a hospital in Rouen. So am guessing the wound was received either the day before or a few days before. Unfortunately the scan of his records is indistinct and the originals were much water damaged.

We're visiting the northern France/Belgium area in a week or two so are really keen to get as close as we can to where he might have been. But I cannot seem to find the War Diaries of the unit for that period... or any detail. For example, 293 seems to be referred to as a Brigade but it's relatively clear on the records as 293 Batt.

Does anyone have any records covering June 1917 up to the 27th? Or know where the unit was fighting?

I will post his service number as soon as I get home.

Hoping!

Kind regards

Ian

EDITED: OK, service number is 926234. Documents as unclear as ever but I can also find references to D battery 290 Brigade on his Disembodiement card - and both written and overstamped on his (clean) offences record. He attested to the 4th London Howitzer Brigade as a driver on 25/10/15. I believe this unit was disbanded before he went to France, hence he ended up moving on. Pension document says 293 for unit. Protection certificate says 393 D battery for unit. Confused? You will be!

EDITED AGAIN: Sorry - now I believe I HAVE posted this in the wrong place, since the main unit appears to be 290 despite what Pension Card says. I would have moved the post apart from the fact that David kindly responded, so deleting it will leave an odd gap! Apologies again. I will repost a version in the "right" place.

[David Porter]

Ian,

The number 926234 ties him to either 280th or 290th Brigade RFA at the beginning of 1917 when the TF artillery were renumbered. These were previously 1st London Brigade so it does looks like he was transferred from 4th London Howitzer Brigade.when it was broken up or reorganised. As his record states "D" Battery, 290th Brigade, I would stick with that and check out the War Diary under WO 95/2995/2. I'm also more inclined to believe he was then in 393rd Battery as this was a home based unit and where he would have been posted after recovering from injury. That battery was part of the Kent Force and based at Canterbury.

You could try searching for records of men with numbers close to his as they are likely to have followed the same path, being transferred at the same time.

[eairicbloodaxe]

Thanks David

Since posting yesterday, have spent many a happy hour tracing things. Finally fnding 290 on the documents has unblocked the mystery. I have since found lots of comrades in the same block of service numbers, all of whom signed up in Lewisham - including the older brother of his friend, who lived in the same road as Edward.

And thanks for clearing up the 393 mystery - records do indicate he was at home from what looks like 27/6/17 until Disembodied on 18/2/19. Although his Pension card lists the unit as 293... must be a mistake.

Regards

Ian

[Balfour]

David

Forgive me resurrecting this post.

I'm looking for the movements of 2 brother Cecil Hadlow Woodfine Shropshire RHA Regimental Number 290 ....renumbered 604678 enlisted August 1913 and his brother

Charles Stanley Woodfine 604679, who must have enlisted under age as his war gratuity and the award of the TF Medal indicate that he was serving at the outbreak of war.

 

Cecil's record tells us that he was attached to 293 Bde 20 Aug 1916. There is also an account in the Wellington Journel that both brothers were at Heytesbury.

The brothers have consecutive numbers so were they together when the renumbering took place? They are adjacent on the Medal Roll.

Charles died 19 October 1917. Unit 58 Div Ammunition Col.

 

What is the name of the book about the SHropshire RHA?

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

[David Porter]

The book can be purchased from Shropshire Regimental Museum, Shrewsbury Castle - see http://www.shropshireregimentalmuseum.co.uk/regimental-history/shropshire-royal-horse-artillery/the-shropshire-royal-horse-artillery-outline-history/

 

You will see the Woodfine brothers mentioned if you can obtain a copy. 

 

The brothers would have joined together in 1913, Charles possibly with permission of parents as he was under age. August 20, 1916 was when the 1/1st Shropshire Battery RHA moved from Rendelsham to Heytesbury to be attached to 293rd Brigade RFA. I see that Cecil spent time with the Trench Mortar Batteries and Divisional Ammunition Column of 58th Division so left the 293rd Brigade around the time it became an Army Brigade. So for the movements of both brothers in 1917 and for Cecil in 1918, I suggest you look at 58th DAC War Diary as this should also cover the TMBs to some degree, them being under direct control of the DAC.

 

There is an older book by Arthur Allwood, who served in Shropshire RHA, which covers the 58th Divisional Trench Mortar Batteries. Part of which is reprinted in the book mentioned above.

 

The renumbering of Shropshire RHA started with the earliest enlisted being renumbered 604001 and so on. A lot of those enlisting from 1908 to 1910 would have dropped out after their 4 years unless signing re-enlistment papers prior to being Time Expired. Some also left the area and could no longer attend drills etc. So by the end of 1916 it is not surprising that the brothers are effectively no. 78 and 79 in terms of service length. The War Establishment for an RHA TF battery and its ammunition column was 9 Officers and 223 Other Ranks.

[Balfour]

Thanks pal. I'll contact the Regimental Museum

 

 

[Balfour]

Picked up a copy of the Shropshire RHA 1908 to 1920 today.

Useful

Thanks