Looking for information on Robert Cameron HLI

[Logan]

While researching my grandfather's military history, I came across the story of a young Bugler that he knew while in the Highland Light Infantry. The name from what I can make out from my Uncle's note was Robert Cameron, age about 17. I believe he was killed at the Battle of Achi Baba August 16 1915.  He was also know to my uncle, from the time he spent with his father at Fort George, I think it was, Cameron and my uncle met at the camp and rode around on the young man's bike.. Would be interested in finding out about this young man.

[jay dubaya]

A possible here

 

J

[Logan]

Thanks Jay, I found that there were a number of R Cameron s that were killed in the battles for Baba . This fellows age is in line with what I have been told just the date of his death. But according to what I was told he may not have died that day, but within days of the attack. I now know that there were two battles one on the 12th of July and the one in August. Maybe over the years the two battles were combined in my uncles mind before he wrote it down. I have elminsiated the R Cameron from New Zealand so hopefully finding the correct one will be as easy. Will let you know what I find

 

[Logan]

I can see why researching can become difficult.   My son located 3 others, then lost where he found their names. I managed to relocate online the other Robert Cameron's who died at Gallipoli  With the man you sent there are 3 other Robert Cameron names listed. Only one lists the regiment he was with, not the other two. So again thanks I will let you know how it works out.

 

[ss002d6252]

So, at age 17, it sounds like he could have been a pre-war enlistment as a boy soldier (Usually at age 14 or shortly after 1912 - so about would be typical).

 

A regular soldier enlisted in 1912/13 would have a number around 117XX to 123XX
http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2014/10/highland-light-infantry-1881-1914-1st.html

An alternative would be that he was a Territorial soldier, in which case the numbering would be different.

 

The above assumes the age is correct.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

When was your grandfather at Fort George and who did he serve with ?

Craig

[charlie962]

Cas List 19/8/15 Mediterranean has a Bugler J Cameron, 6th HLI , 1304, killed

 

CWGC says this man killed 12/7/15 and on Helles Memorial

 

Charlie

 

edit- but this seems to be John M Cameron so perhaps not your man ?

Edited 21 July , 2019 by charlie962

[Logan]

SS002 My grandfather was with the Seaforth Highlanders when he first enlisted. He mentions the Chitral Campiagn medal as being stolen while in Hospital after being shot in the hip in the Sudan at Omdurman, he was before that in Crete with the Intentional Peace group. After that he was in South Africa where he was again wounded and also captured by the Boers. He left the Seaforths and became a member of the 6th Bn HLI, He went to Gallipoli where he was when the attacks took place. He Came across the young Bugler while searching for his brother in law Hugh Wilkie who did not return after the attack failed. He wrote that he stayed with Cameron for awhile before continuing the search. Eventually Great Uncle Hughie returned, having to wait until dark as his group had been really close to the enemy lines. My grandfather John Holmes Logan contacted Dysentery and was send home then discharged from the Army, he was in his 40s by this time. The Army would not have him so he joined the RAF and stayed with them until the end of the war.( He had been a cabinet maker during the two wars)   He was at Fort George before going to Afghanistan after enlistment and while with the HLI during the days they did their training. My Uncle Robert and sometimes my dad would go with him. Many of the men brought their boys according to my Uncle and they stayed "hidden" although the officers knew, but turned a blind eye to it. It was here my Uncle cycled and played soccer with Robert Cameron. Cameron's family visited my grandfather after the war, grandfather  was the source of information to many in the area who lost loved ones, on what had happened.   

[Logan]

Charlie 692  sounds like that is the young man my grandfather mentioned and that my uncle knew as a boy at Fort George. I was on that CWGC earlier today site and found some others but I did not see that listed. My grandfather was with the 6th Bn.  I also found a list of men with the HLI there were 13 named Robert Cameron ! Sounds like this young man  was killed at the Battle of Achi Baba. I am amazed at all of you who can find such information. Especially with so many men with the same name.  I am now working on my great-grandfather's service, who was in a highland regiment during the Crimean War, I think I have found the right Robert Logan, again a name which was not uncommon. But through the help of researchers I managed to weave my way through the maze.. well possibly.

 

Thanks to you all for your time and help, it means a lot that you share your knowledge to make history live again  

 

Dan Logan

[Logan]

Charlie  The date and everything seems correct maybe my uncle just remembered the name incorrectly. There are a few mistakes in places and names elsewhere in his writings. But most of the events have some kind of basis. Such as my grandfather told my uncle that he was asked by General Egerton to meet General Hamilton. Egerton was a Captain when my grandfather was at Omdurman. It was Egerton that plugged up my grandfathers bullet wound using my grandfather's kilt. Egerton had told Hamilton that he had an old campaigner in his unit, Hamilton wanted to meet him.  So I will see what I can find out about John M Cameron.

[Logan]

Thought I would see the CWGC sites listing, earlier I had found a Robert Cameron killed July 12th and another Robert Cameron killed June 28th,  so when I change the first name to John I get John M Cameron July 12th and John Cameron June 28th kind of weird how the dates match Did not give any details so thanks for adding the Service Number

 

Edited 22 July , 2019 by Logan
hit wrong key

[charlie962]

Dan,

Some good stories there.

 

re Robert Cameron; the only record that gave him as Bugler was the casualty list. the MIC, CWGC and SDGW just say pte so I think we were lucky.

 

Charlie

[Logan]

Charlie,  that was luck . The only Bugler I would imagine so it must be him. I seemed to  have send some looking for Robert instead of John. Don't know how he got the name mixed up. It was along time ago from when my uncle was told these different stories by his father until he wrote them down, so glad he did at last write them down. My grandfather was a fortunate man to have survived so many enemy encounters, he also supposedly met Queen Victoria and Princess Beatrice while in Netley Hospital, something a good number of soldiers were lucky enough to have also done, as the Queen visited the hospital often.

One other bit about his venture out into the battlefield at Achi Baba that night. He also came across another soldier he knew lying there with a bullet hole in the throat. Grandfather had a canteen filled with whiskeyl with him so he gave this man named Willie a swallow then he went on to find my great uncle.He knew it was the wrong thing to do and thought he may have killed the man. But years later in Glasgow he met up with Willie, who explained the whiskey had cleared the clot in his throat and rather then killing him actually saved him.  

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Logan said:

The only Bugler I would imagine

Light Infantry must have a number of buglers per Bn but just how many ?

 

There was a newspaper report 18/8/15 of James Cameron's death with a photo of him. Perhaps it mentions 'bugler' ?

Mitchell Library

 

edit probably same info as this Scotsman report of 19/8/15 ? Courtesy of FMP newspapers.

 

Edited 22 July , 2019 by charlie962

[charlie962]

I post the CasList Killed entry of 19/8/15 just to show the reference to Bugler.  Very frustrating not to have found a validation.

source Find my past

Edited 22 July , 2019 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Logan, Has the age of James Cameron of Overnewton (29 per the clipping) now ruled him out as you have a youngster of 17 in your first post ? I'm a bit confused about the timeline.

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

CWGC only has one Cameron of the Highland Light Infantry died 12/7/15 , John M Cameron 1304, of the 6th HLI. All abit of a muddle ?

 

What does Effects say ?

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

Starting again, searched CWGC for Cameron, Highland Light Infantry, Helles Memorial, deaths 1/7/15- 31/8/15 and only 2 hits:

 

No sign of a Robert

 

Of course if Bugler Cameron was evacuated before he died he could be on another Memorial.

 

It looks to me that  2441 James Cameron aged 29 (son of the late Isabelle Cameron) might be the ham curer that the newspaper clipping said died 12/7 but perhaps actually died 15/7 ?

If so then the clippings referred to in post 14 are a red herring and I should be looking for John M Cameron.( = bugler 1304 per Cas List)

 

Charlie

 

 

[charlie962]

Right, I've got my head back together. John M Cameron 1304, 6th HLI died 12/7/15. What does Soldiers Effects tell us about him please?

 

Charlie

Edited 22 July , 2019 by charlie962

[Logan]

I was wondering why he was on the memorial while others have grave plots listed ?  I tried through Scotland's People to find a birth certificate then from that a Census but there were so many John Cameron's in the Glasgow area, if he was from Glasgow. It sure can be confusing all right.  Judging by what my uncle wrote about him, I would think he was a younger person then 29 will have to re-read what he wrote.

 

[Logan]

Your finding the newspaper article led me to do this for grandfather, who knew this stuff was still out there

John Logan wounded.pdf

[Logan]

I reread my uncles hand written notes, which are hard to decipher, I see he says the bugler he met at camp was a few years older than he was. Cameron was born around 1898 going by his age at his death and my uncle was born 1901. So that fits. after a number of sentences about all he remembered about being at this camp there is a sentence that says John enjoyed his stays at camp. I had though my uncle meant his brother John but I now now my uncle John was not born until 1911 so he would have been too young to go to the camp.   So I think that this John Cameron age 17 a Bugler is the man we are looking for.

[charlie962]

On 22/07/2019 at 21:52, charlie962 said:

John M Cameron 1304, 6th HLI died 12/7/15. What does Soldiers Effects tell us about him please?

So I think that this is the man but what about effects ? (I don't have Ancestry). And what about Pensions ?

Charlie

Edited 24 July , 2019 by charlie962

[Logan]

I looked him up on my neighbours account, nothing other then his Medal card. He may have been an orphan or a runaway and left no family details. Too bad would have been nice to find out more about him . The HLI association was of no help, just referred me to Ancestry. I know when I researched my great uncle I found nothing then a few months later I found documents on him ?  Thanks for your interest and help, i will keep trying will let you know what I find. Found a book on the Gallipoli and the HLI he was not mentioned as with most of these books it was about the officers mostly

[jay dubaya]

Here's John M Cameron's entry from the Register of Soldiers Effects

 

 

Craig's War Gratuity calculator suggests and enlistment date between 4th and 12th August 1914

 

J