John Devereux

[Pat Twomey]

I think this photograph is John Devereux of the Royal Irish Rifles M/25943. Date of Discharge 18/1/19; Enlistment 23/1/17. From the writing on the back of the photo I managed to identify his number 2593 and from there tracked down his Medal Index Card.

I obtained further information from his MIC - don't think he was entitled to any medals. Anyone identify his uniform or know anything further about him. He came from Passage West in Cork. Would appreciate any help with discovering more about him.

Thanks,

Pat

MIC John Devereux.pdf

Edited 29 June , 2019 by Pat Twomey
correct spelling

[charlie962]

Pat

 

He has the Cap Badge of the Royal Artillery, he has 3 overseas service chevrons and has the medal ribbon of the 14/15 or 14 Star.

 

This does not tie up with what you have stated !!

 

Charlie

 

Edit - he also has two badges above his single stripe. (top one looks like a spur)

Edited 29 June , 2019 by charlie962

[corisande]

The number on the back is "25943"

 

There is a Pension Record for a John Devereux, 25943, of Main St Passage West - Click for Fold 3 Record

[charlie962]

3 minutes ago, corisande said:

There is a Pension Record for a John Devereux, 25943, of Main St Passage West

I presume that will be the RIR man which does not fit with the uniform in the photograph !

[corisande]

2 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

I presume that will be the RIR man which does not fit with the uniform in the photograph

 

Yes,

 

Royal Irish

Discharged 1919 Jan 18

Private

Born 1893

[Pat Twomey]

Thanks for the replies so far - I know John had a brother James Devereux and wonder would that be the man in the Photo?

[charlie962]

24 minutes ago, Pat Twomey said:

brother James Devereux and wonder would that be the man in the Photo?

nothing obvious !

[charlie962]

What is the adress stamped in top left of the back of the card ?

[Pat Twomey]

Couldn't make that out, but on the other side it seems 'John J Devereux B E F France 19?? 1919'.

But to make it more confusing his father's name was Francis so the above might be Francis instead of France.

 

 

Edited 29 June , 2019 by Pat Twomey

[charlie962]

11 minutes ago, Pat Twomey said:

Couldn't make that out, but on the other side it seems 'John J Devereux B E F France 19?? 1919'.

The crossed out writing on the back looks to me like:

 

Enlisted 23 Oct 1914   25943

Discharged          L Cpl John J Devere(a?)ux  ??

G??  ???                           BEF

??  1919                france   1915 - 1919

 

Which doesn't tie up with what you put in post 1 and whilst not conflicting with the uniform detail in the photo does not lead to an obvious candidate .

 

Charlie

Edited 29 June , 2019 by charlie962

[Pat Twomey]

Thanks Charlie!

Anyone know what List A/1149 under Action Taken on the MIC means?

[corisande]

That is not his MIC, it is for his SWB. Pension record shows he had a disability due to influenza

 

This is his MIC on Ancestry - click

 

And shows he originally enlisted in Leinster Regt as service no 5904

[charlie962]

Note that spelling varies eg Devereux , Deveraux, Devereaux ....

[corisande]

...and he joined RMF and was discharged underage in 1914

 

then joined Connaught Rangers 23 10 1914 and discharged medically unfit 12 May 1915 (correct Passage West address)

[Pat Twomey]

Thanks Corisande for the Leinster Regt connection.

This is all very confusing for me as I was researching John J Devereux from Passage west near Cork and thought I had found his Service Records and had written the following up about him. I'm away from home for a few days now so not near my notes but what I had written was the following from his Service Records:

By the time John Joseph was 16 the family was living in Main Street, Passage West and John decided to join the British Army. John was forced to lie about his age (as enlisting men had to be 18) when he applied to join and was accepted for the Royal Munster Fusiliers. However, shortly after he enlisted it was discovered he was too young and was discharged accordingly.

Not to be put off, in October 1914, John whilst he was still underage – he was only 17 but claimed he was 19 – enlisted in the 6^th Battalion of the Connaught Rangers that was stationed in Kilworth. His attestation papers describe him as 5ft 6.5in, 122 lbs, blue eyes, brown hair and a chest when expanded of 36inches.

Shortly after enlisting, Devereux’s battalion was moved to Fermoy and his company was set to digging trenches. It must have been tough work for a 17-year-old of slight stature and in early May 1915, while digging a trench near Fermoy, Devereux complained of palpitations and shortness of breath and was sent for a medical examination and assessment. Following the medical assessment, it was decided to discharge Devereux from the army as being medically unfit and this happened on 12^th May 1915. As he had served for more than three months Devereux was given a pension subject to review after 18 months. His case was reviewed in October 1916 and whilst the medical officer thought he was a ‘…weakly delicate looking’ man he nevertheless thought that Devereux would be fit for some clerical duties in a hospital as he had some first aid knowledge. It seems that his request to have his pension extended was granted subject to a future review.

Not sure now who's who?

 

Pat

 

[corisande]

16 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Note that spelling varies eg Devereux , Deveraux, Devereaux

 

Easiest way round that problem is to use wild card  "Dever*x"

[corisande]

4 minutes ago, Pat Twomey said:

This is all very confusing for me as I was researching John J Devereux from Passage west near Cork

 

What you have in this thread is

 

1. He joined RMF before Oct 1914 and was discharged underage

 

2. He then joined Connaught Rangers in Oct 1914 and was discharged in May 1915 as Medically unfit

 

3. He then joined Leinster Regt (date unknown)

 

4 He then transferred to R I Regt (probably 24 Jan 1917, but unclear who he enlisted with on that date)

 

5 Discharged Medically unfit (results of influenza) in Jan 1919

 

You can also add that the man in the photo does not mesh with any of these identities. You can llok at 2 options (I am sure that there are more) for the man in the photo

 

1. It is you man John J Devereux who perhaps went on to serve in RGA

2, The man is someone else, like his brother, who wrote the other man's details.

[HarryBrook]

See also this medal index card on ancestry - John J. Devereux, Pte. 25943 7/ R. I. Regt., Pte. 2514 S.I. Horse [South Irish Horse], Main Street, Passage West address.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A000441-00563/4020520?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

 

[corisande]

7 minutes ago, HarryBrook said:

S.I. Horse [South Irish Horse],

 

That was well found. J J Devereux seems to have multiple Medal Cards as he tried to compartmentalise his service record

 

It is difficult to see when he served in SIH.

 

From that last MIC can someone say if his SIH service was after his RIR service ?

[Pat Twomey]

Thanks Corisande - please have a look at the following two shots and let me know what you think. One is of John J Devereux in his postman's uniform in the 1920s and the other is a headshot of the man in the photo above.

          

 

To my untrained eye it's not the same man. What do you think?

 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

Given the space of five-plus years, I would say that there IS a remarkable similarlty! 

Indeed, the elongated shape of the face is in both cases the same.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

PS: I had a similar problem, still not resolved (apart from circumstantial evidence): namely possibly Capt E. P. Yeates (1/12 Pioneers, IA), seated at left, with General Dyer in the Persian Desert, 1915-16, and possibly retired Major E.P. Yeates, at a 1926 reunion of Pioneers in India.

 

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Pat Twomey said:

To my untrained eye it's not the same man. What do you think?

I think there are strong similarities in the long face and chin. But that may just mean same family ? If only he had smiled in the Army photo....

 

Charlie

Edited 30 June , 2019 by charlie962

[Pat Twomey]

Another piece of information I have concerning John J Devereux is his arrest in December 1920 under the Restoration of Ireland Act 1920 and his internment in Ballykinlar camp in Co Down. He would have been treated with suspicion (as all ex-British soldiers were) and when he was seen talking to a military officer he was questioned by the camp's republican intelligence staff. He was released in September 1921 and began work as a postman in 1922.  

[corisande]

He was released in fact on 11 Nov 1921

 

There is more about releases in general at that day on - FmP click . Although those press cuttings oly say "J" Devereux", there is an actual document that says "John J Devereux". The cuttings are in fact from Freeman's Journal and the Irish Independent, and are worth your while getting hold of.

[corisande]

18 hours ago, Pat Twomey said:

To my untrained eye it's not the same man. What do you think?

 

 

I don't think it is the same man - but I am no expert in photo identification

 

I think that the younger man has

 

1 a thinner nose

2. more space between nose and mouth

3 thicker lips

4. a completely different shaped mouth

5 Cannot really tell either way with eyes