Piscator Posted 27 January , 2005 Share Posted 27 January , 2005 An Uncle of mine joine the University and Public Schools Bn of the Royal Fusiliers (19th Bn) This Battalion was I understand disbanded in 1915 and most of the members were commisioned, my Uncle then went on to join the 19th Bn (4th City) of the Manchesters, can anyone tell me in what engagements they were involved in? Also prior to 1915, whilst serving in the Uni & Public school Bn 19th Bn Ecoy 17 platoon where would he have been at that time? Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 27 January , 2005 Share Posted 27 January , 2005 Mike Stedman wrote a very good history of the Manchester Pals battalions, which was reprinted by Pen & Sword c.2003/4. See his website: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/m...dman/page4.html There is a good chance, being an officer, that his service record will be at the National Archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 27 January , 2005 Share Posted 27 January , 2005 Len I have a copy of the Battalion History. If you post your uncle's name I'' see if he gets a mention. I thoroughly recommend you buy yourself a copy of Stedman's book as well. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piscator Posted 30 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2005 Many thanks for the info so far, my Uncles name was Bernard Johnson, Ive no idea what rank he held. I do know that he also served in the Royal Regiment(North LANCS) 6th Bn then transfered to the RAF Reg. during WW2. the book sound like it could be useful for future research Cheers! Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 30 January , 2005 Share Posted 30 January , 2005 Len Sorry - but no mention of any officer called Johnson in the History. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 31 January , 2005 Share Posted 31 January , 2005 I do know that he also served in the Royal Regiment(North LANCS) Len. The North Lancs were the "Loyal" Regiment, not "Royal". There was a "Royal Lancs" ("Royal Lancaster") better known as the "Kings Own". I'm not being pedantic here, I just thought I'd better point it out to avoid any confusion in the future. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackson Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 My Grandfather was a Westinghouse Pal i.e. he joined up in Manchester as a Pal with co workers from Westinghouse. I don't know which regiment he was in but he was in the Gallipoli campaigne. I took a look at the book site referred to by Paul but that looks like it concentrates on the European campaignes. Is there some way I can find out his Regiment? I beleive he was in communications. Thanks. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 My Grandfather was a Westinghouse Pal i.e. he joined up in Manchester as a Pal with co workers from Westinghouse. I don't know which regiment he was in but he was in the Gallipoli campaigne. I took a look at the book site referred to by Paul but that looks like it concentrates on the European campaignes. Is there some way I can find out his Regiment? I beleive he was in communications. Thanks. Terry Terry It's possible to trace his medal index card by name ( what is it? ) and maybe his service records It is possible he joined the Manchester Regiment as they did fight in Gallipoli, do you know if he was a territorial? Was Westinghouse in Trafford Park?, the name rings a bell but i'm not certain cheers chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 It is possible he joined the Manchester Regiment as they did fight in Gallipoli, do you know if he was a territorial? He didn't have to be a Territorial to fight with the Mancs at Gallipoli. My "pet" battalion, the 11th ,was there also from August 1915. This was a "Service" battalion (as were all the "Pals" battalions) and was very similar to a Pals battalion (though maybe not quite as "middle class"!) even being recruited in a similar way. Apart from the terriers and the 11th bn, thats it for Gallipoli for the mancs though. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 He didn't have to be a Territorial to fight with the Mancs at Gallipoli. My "pet" battalion, the 11th was there also from August 1915. Dave, I didn't say he had to be a territorial, but I knew the terriers did go to Gallipoli with the 42nd Div (?) The 11th were raised in Ashton (i think), in the back of my mind was the Westinghouse thing, IF they were based in Trafford Park anyone working there would be unlikely to go as far as Ashton to enlist does that make sense? chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 The 11th were raised in Ashton (i think), in the back of my mind was the Westinghouse thing, IF they were based in Trafford Park anyone working there would be unlikely to go as far as Ashton to enlist Hi Chris. They were ,as you said, raised at Ashton in August 1914, but did initial training in a number of locations throughout the Manchester area until April 1915. They also recieved recruits from a wide range of areas from very early on - you think Trafford Park to Ashton is a long way to enlist? - my personal "case study" went from Upholland, near Wigan to enlist in the 11th along with his mates from the Wigan colliery in which he worked! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 Hi Chris. They were ,as you said, raised at Ashton in August 1914, but did initial training in a number of locations throughout the Manchester area until April 1915. They also recieved recruits from a wide range of areas from very early on - you think Trafford Park to Ashton is a long way to enlist? - my personal "case study" went from Upholland, near Wigan to enlist in the 11th along with his mates from the Wigan colliery in which he worked! Dave. bloody hell! Wigan to Ashton! did they get lost? surely that's the exception rather than the rule my logic ( those two words don't get put together very often) is that if there were battalions recruiting in Manchester City Centre, why go to Ashton? did you ever find out why your lads went so far? chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 my logic ( those two words don't get put together very often) is that if there were battalions recruiting in Manchester City Centre, why go to Ashton? did you ever find out why your lads went so far? Yes I did, actually. (And I cheated a little here - they actually didn't travel all that far! ). They actually enlisted in the 11th Manchesters in.....wait for it....Wigan! (which was part of the Manchester regiment recruiting area anyway) As you mention there were recruiting centres for the city battalions in Manchester City centre, but the full quota of recruits for the first 4 City battalions (all formed on 28th(?) August 1914) was completed pretty rapidly and the last four City battalions (to take the overspill?) weren't formed until November 1914. Where did "keen and eager potential "Pals"" go in the meantime? - Well, the 11th bn was also recruiting at the same time as the first four "City" battalions, though slightly slower, but in the same places as well as wider afield. You also had the potential to see action quicker with the 11th bn (as actually was the case) due to the less "stop gap" nature of this battalion. This would certainly be seen as an attraction, along with the opportunity to join up with your pals. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackson Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 Hi Ooops : for a moment there I thought I may have kicked off ww3 My grandpa's name was William Garner TIMPERLEY (changed prior to the war from Thomas William GARNER). I have been to the war medals site and found several William Timperleys one of which was William G but all in Manchester Regiments so I was hoping to find a way of identifying which one was him. His address in 1901was 160 Oxford Street, South Manchester (Chorlton upon Medlock) but I'm pretty certain they'd moved from here before WW1. I think there was a move by the famiy during the war too so knowing his address in 1919 was 112 Duke Street,Hulme is probably of no use. I do know that he must have had some training or something in Surrey (Farnham/Aldershot area)as that is where he met my Grandmother and they married in 1919. I am also pretty sure that he was in the Territorials prior to joining up and that he was in communications or signals (would these be different to one another?) I can't think of anything else that would help but ask if you think it'll help... I might know. THanks Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 Westinghouse is indeed based in the Park. A Google will produce an extract from the local council's website which mentions that the Westinghouse Territorial Force Battalion fought at Galllipoli. No mention of regiment or battalion. Could this possibly be Lancs Fusiliers and not Manchesters. Contact with the Regimental Museum seems the next step. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 Yes I did, actually. (And I cheated a little here - they actually didn't travel all that far! ). They actually enlisted in the 11th Manchesters in.....wait for it....Wigan! (which was part of the Manchester regiment recruiting area anyway) Dear me, they don't make it easy! thanks for that Dave, interesting stuff Ooops : for a moment there I thought I may have kicked off ww3 no, not at all Terry, that was just Dave sorting me out on cachement areas, If he was a terrier, and lived in Chorlton upon medlock then I would have thought Hulme would have been the obvious/nearest drill hall, so possibly 1/6th (although Ardwick would still be poss ) as for signals/communications, my understanding is that each section would have someone dedicated to signals ( but someone may well correct me on that) A Google will produce an extract from the local council's website which mentions that the Westinghouse Territorial Force Battalion fought at Galllipoli John, this is a cracking lead, I'll have a look for it now unless you want to post the URL and save me the search!, someone must know which battalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 Chris Trafford council link Not much but it confirms the story John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 Chris Trafford council link Not much but it confirms the story John thanks John I've emailed the webmaster, we'll see if that gets a response cheers chris ps i might drop it into the conversation tomorrow ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 Ooops : for a moment there I thought I may have kicked off ww3 no, not at all Terry, that was just Dave sorting me out on cachement areas, Terry. You really don't want to see it when someone kicks off WW3 on this forum!!!! No, you won't find much animosity amongst us north-westerners! (well, not amongst ourselves anyway! ) Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackson Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 Hi all I had a quick look at the trafford site (sure I've had this page on my pc before but obviously hadn't read it properly Interesting where it said He was notorious for his harsh 'hire and fire' policies, on return from the war, as the story goes, when my grandpa was called to the office he assumed (understandably if what this says is true) that with difficult times he was called to the office to be given the sack which made him angry and so he lost his temper and said he quit.... turns out they weren't giving him the sack but a raise but his temper ruined everything Back to the point... John says "Contact with the Regimental Museum seems the next step" OK, so where is the museum and how does one contact them? By the way has anyone looked at the Liddle collection online? I have contributed a transcription of my grandfather's 1915 diary and there's some interesting stuff too. Thanks for all this help. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 22 February , 2005 Share Posted 22 February , 2005 I have been to the war medals site and found several William Timperleys one of which was William G but all in Manchester Regiments so I was hoping to find a way of identifying which one was him. Only speculation (so in other words, worthless info.!!!) but 1183 Pte William G Timperley, (territorial) Manchester regiment caught my eye. He later transferred to the Royal Engineers as 426904, which is a 1st West Lancs Field Coy. (Territorial) number. This seems to me to be a pretty expected move for someone who worked in a company such as George Westinghouse's and was a signaller! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackson Posted 23 February , 2005 Share Posted 23 February , 2005 William G Timperley 1183 was my first choice but I thought it safest to at least try to make some enquiries first. Thanks Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 23 February , 2005 Share Posted 23 February , 2005 " By the way has anyone looked at the Liddle collection online? I have contributed a transcription of my grandfather's 1915 diary Terry is the diary on line?, I'm thinking that we some of the significant dates may identify the regiment, i'm surprised he doesn't mention his regiment in it but i suppose it would be for the same reason we have so many unidentified photos (at the time everyone knows who's in the photo ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 23 February , 2005 Share Posted 23 February , 2005 Terry some success i believe, i have had some help from a lady at Trafford Local Studies and she has come up with the following :- "Metropolitan -Vickers Co. Ltd. 1899-1949 ,which does chronicle the development of the company and includes references/photographs of the First World War in particular the 1st/6th Manchesters 'the Westinghouse Section' in Alexandria " here's the link to the mother site for the 42nd division 42nd div there's also a book available from the Museum of the Manchesters called 'Great Gable to Gallipoli' which you may well find of interest chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackson Posted 23 February , 2005 Share Posted 23 February , 2005 The Liddle collection is at this site: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/library/spcoll/liddle/ However I don't think my grandpa's diary is available online. I've taken a quick look at the website for the 42nd division but not comparing it with the diary. I'll do that and let you know if I reach any conclusions. I read 'Gallipoli' by LA Carlyon but found no real clues from that comparing it with the diary. terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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