A Passage to India?

[Michael Skeet]

I am trying to reconstruct the Great War service of my paternal grandfather, Private Sidney E. Skeet, born in Elmstead Market, Sussex about 1897. His records (save for the medal card) were destroyed in 1940, but we do know this:

• He  enlisted in the Army Service Corps (Transport) in 1914, at the age of 16 or 17
• He went to India as a "boy soldier" bugler
• He was with the 1/4 Dorsets when they went from India to Mesopotamia in February 1916, and remained with that regiment until he was demobbed

What I'm hoping to find out now is when, and how, he went to India. I have a photo of him, wearing what looks to be an ASC cap badge, dated on the back "Feb" -- I assume this must have been February 1915. So my question is, which is more likely? That he transferred to the Territorial Battalion of the Dorsets, in the UK, and was sent to India? Or that he went to India as a member of the ASC and then joined the 1/4 Dorsets on the subcontinent? I don't know anything about how reinforcement drafts went to India from the UK, so I can't even make a guess as to when he transferred

[JulianR]

Forces War Records have him as T/37484 Pte ASC and 25958 Pte in the Dorsets, is that him?

[JulianR]

Discharged to Class B Reserve on 28th April 1919.  I think the last Regiment he served in  complied the medal rolls.  Looking at the LLT website 1/4 Dorsets sailed for India in October 1914, so I would think that he went to India with the ASC and was then transferred.

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41629_626640_11687-00082?pid=5862434&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5119%26h%3D5862434%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DPzZ4778%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=PzZ4778&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Michael Skeet]

Thanks, Julian. Yes, you've got him correctly. His medal card was written up by the Dorsets but the SN on his medals is his ASC number. He has been the cause of no small amount of confusion for some of the experts on this forum.

 

Is there any way I can research ASC transfers to India in 1915? How would an underage soldier talk himself into an Indian assignment in the first place?

[JulianR]

I did find various other items on him, but the site crashed before I could post.  So a brief summary.

 

His parents were Edgar and Kate?  He emigrated to Canada in about 1926 having married a Constance.  

 

That is on Ancestry.

 

I suspect that it was not too difficult for an underage soldier to be posted to India.  Given the casualty rates, and the need to keep a garrison in India the underage men were probably sent out to allow men over the fighting age back to the front.  No doubt when the Dorsets went to Mespot they were made up to War Establishment strength by men being posted in from other units.  If Sidney did not have a specific trade needed in the ASC then he was chosen/or volunteered.

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, Michael Skeet said:

I am trying to reconstruct the Great War service of my paternal grandfather, Private Sidney E. Skeet, born in Elmstead Market, Sussex about 1897. His records (save for the medal card) were destroyed in 1940, but we do know this:

• He  enlisted in the Army Service Corps (Transport) in 1914, at the age of 16 or 17
• He went to India as a "boy soldier" bugler
• He was with the 1/4 Dorsets when they went from India to Mesopotamia in February 1916, and remained with that regiment until he was demobbed

What I'm hoping to find out now is when, and how, he went to India. I have a photo of him, wearing what looks to be an ASC cap badge, dated on the back "Feb" -- I assume this must have been February 1915. So my question is, which is more likely? That he transferred to the Territorial Battalion of the Dorsets, in the UK, and was sent to India? Or that he went to India as a member of the ASC and then joined the 1/4 Dorsets on the subcontinent? I don't know anything about how reinforcement drafts went to India from the UK, so I can't even make a guess as to when he transferred

 

It’s helpful if you refer folk to previous threads as it avoids duplication 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/269227-artillery-cap-badge-blasted/

 

T/37451 enlisted ASC 7th April 1915 (SWB)

T/37477 enlisted ASC  26th April 1915 (Service Records)

T/37481 enlisted 17th April 1915 (SWB)

T/37488 enlisted ASC 26th April 1915 (Service records)

The Medal Roll shows Sidney Skeet as a Private, all of the above were ‘Drivers’.

Sidney Edgar Skeet was born in the first quarter of 1897, so 18, in April 1915 and not under age for enlistment in the Regular Army, no evidence he was a bandsman or bugler, in 1911 he was a grocer’s errand boy.

 

As noted in the previous thread India was not a theatre of war, therefore if he was posted from the Depot at Woolwich around August/September 1915 (as the two men above were) he was not entitled to the 14-15 Star.

37477 and 37488 were originally posted to France.  We don’t know why he was posted to India but he could not be posted to a theatre of war until aged at least aged 19.

 

25953 Dorset Regiment was allocated to the 2nd Battalion in India on the 2 October 1917.  Had Pte Skeet been posted to the 1/4 Battalion on or before March 1917 he would have been allocated a six digit number in the series 200001-225000.  

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

 

The 2nd Battalion left India in April 1918.(LLT).  Therefore he would have been posted to the 1/4 between October 1917 and April 1918.

 

His transfer to the infantry was probably ‘for the benefit of the service’, by then he was aged 20.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 February , 2019 by kenf48

[MaureenE]

This post indicates that the first ASC units sent to India were in May 1916, (arriving June) so he could not have gone to India with the ASC, as he had already left for Mesopotamia by this date.

If he joined the ASC initially, I suspect that he then went for training as a boy soldier bugler, and after training was appointed to a regiment. Could he have been appointed to the Dorsets at this point?  Either to the regiment in Britain, or he could have been sent as a draft to India. It was established practice to allow boy buglers in India.

I think to have been sent to Mesopotamia, he would have had to have been older than a boy.

 

Cheers

Maureen

[kenf48]

9 minutes ago, Maureene said:

This post indicates that the first ASC units sent to India were in May 1916, (arriving June) so he could not have gone to India with the ASC, as he had already left for Mesopotamia by this date.

If he joined the ASC initially, I suspect that he then went for training as a boy soldier bugler, and after training was appointed to a regiment. Could he have been appointed to the Dorsets at this point?  Either to the regiment in Britain, or he could have been sent as a draft to India. It was established practice to allow boy buglers in India.

I think to have been sent to Mesopotamia, he would have had to have been older than a boy.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

That’s helpful

Therefore my interpretation of the timeline is enlisted ASC April 1915, home service.

Posted to India aged at least 19 after May 1916

Transferred to the 2nd Battalion Dorsetshire Regiment on, or after October 1917 and renumbered to that Regiment

Posted to the 1/4 and Mesopotamia and entered a theatre of war retaining his regular number after that date but before April 1918

Discharged from the 1/4 Battalion to Class B Reserve 24 April 1919.

 

Ken

[MaureenE]

Ken's post no 6 had not displayed for me when I posted post no7, so I was going on the data supplied by the original poster,

 

I must admit I am feeling somewhat confused, as some of the dates supplied by Ken are so different to what the original poster said, who said transfer to Mesopotamia in February 1916.

 

Just a general comment that within India at this time, there was a great deal of movement of men between Battalions of the same regiment, and even of men between regiments, with the purpose of sending troops to Mesopotamia, and only troops of a high medical fitness, and adult age could be sent to Mesopotamia. Generally the movement was from a regiment to specialist support roles, even clerical roles,  in the Indian Army Supply and Transport/ Army Service Corps, but I suppose it could go the reverse way.

 

Cheers

Maureen

[Michael Skeet]

17 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

It’s helpful if you refer folk to previous threads as it avoids duplication 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/269227-artillery-cap-badge-blasted/

 

Sorry about that. Wasn't aware of the etiquette for this case. I had originally posted in a forum about badges and insignia, so I thought a new post in a new forum would be appropriate given the change in subject matter.

 

I really appreciate the investigation of adjacent service numbers. It's very satisfying to be able to put more concrete dates to this timeline. Next step, I think, will be to try to track down a copy of vol. 2 of the Dorsets Great War history, the better to figure out what Sid was up to once he got to Mesopotamia. Even if he wasn't there for as long as family legend would have it.

 

17 hours ago, kenf48 said:

in 1911 he was a grocer’s errand boy.

 

Near enough for the purpose of a census, I suppose. He was helping his mother run the family butcher shop in Elmstead Market.