Michael Skeet Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 I've just been given my paternal grandfather's medals and (most) badges, and am curious about his cap badge. All sorts of curious, really, because it's an artillery badge, but his medal card (the only surviving record I've found; I'm guessing his service records were burned in 1940) shows him enlisting with the Dorsetshire Regiment in 1914, and being in the RASC in 1918 when the card was filled in. What I'm most curious about, though, is the condition of the badge: it appears to have been blasted down to the base metal, and I don't mean worn. On the back of the frame in which I received the badge is an undated, unsourced (alas) typewritten note claiming the effect was caused by something called powder blasting. The note says: Quote It will be noted that the badge is "powder blasted". This was a custom in the R.H.A. when Batteries went into action many of the "Gunners" placed their badges in front of the firing guns and this caused a sand blasting effect which cannot be obtained in any other manner. This custom was peculiar to the Royal Horse Artillery. I have never come across any other reference to this, anywhere. I have queries posted to a couple of museums but don't anticipate hearing back anytime soon. So I thought I would try to crowdsource an answer from here. I've posted an image of the badge at https://michaelskeet.blogspot.com/2019/01/powder-blasted-cap-badge.html. I haven't got a photo of his medals yet, but the plaque on which they're mounted also contains Artillery collar tabs (the UBIQUE grenades). So here's a bonus question: is it possible a soldier could have served in the RASC while wearing artillery badges? There's no Dorsetshire badge anywhere, but I've a photo postcard showing him with transport men of the Devonshire, Dorsetshire and Hampshire regiments (undated) in which he is wearing what looks to me like a Dorsetshire cap badge. Another photo (a tiny thing, presumably from a Kodak Brownie) shows what might be an RASC cap badge... but in that case why wouldn't he have had it when mustering out? (This photo is dated "February" but without a year...) So many questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Hello, Welcome to the forum. what regiment is on the medal rim please? And what's his name etc? He perhaps joined the RA post WW1, collar grenade badges were introduced during the 1920's. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 It would be most unusual verging on the "never done" for a man to wear the badges of the Royal Artillery if he was in the ASC. In all likelihood, his interface with the Gunners that you refer to in the piece (ammunition supply etc) would have been him serving in a Divisional ASC ammunition park from which the Divisional RA ammunition column collected ammunition to deliver forward. Alternatively, there were ASC men organic to Siege and Heavy batteries of the Royal Garrison Artillery (same cap badge) where the relationship would have been closer. All in all, the Gunner cap badge and grenades may simply be mementoes of serving with the Gunners Powder blasting - not heard of it, not sure how they would fix the badge so that it wasn't blasted into the far distance by the muzzle blast! Max PS ASC became Royal in late 1918 so prior to that ASC is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Is the badge an officers service dress bronze version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 If you can not find his records he may of served on past the Great war. Pictures that you do have would be a great help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Prompted by Dragoon's earlier post and Scalyback'sjust now I've checked the Artillery attestations on FMP and the asset registers of records held by MOD - no sign on either. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Welcome to the forum Michael 'This custom was peculiar to the Royal Horse Artillery.' I'd be inclined to say this custom was perculiar indeed, never heard of it before. Many units blackened their cap badges which to be honest don't resemble the appearance of yours. It would be interesting to note the fixings on the rear of the badge as it does somewhat look like an officers badge, also to note the badge is the generic Royal Artillery badge, there were slight differences in the wording on the scrolls for certain units. Please do post the details of your grandfather and images if you can, it will help paint a bigger picture Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Skeet Posted 22 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Thank you all for your kind welcomes. I know my father will be most pleased with whatever I'm able to learn here. My grandfather's name was Sidney Skeet and he was from Essex (the Colchester area, I believe). His service number with the Dorsetshire Regiment was, I believe, 25958 (that's what appears on the medal card). The service number on his medals is T 37484. No regiment shown on the medals, just A.S.C. (Medal card reference WO 372/18/90789). It had never occurred to me he might have served in the RA post-war, but it's certainly possible: he didn't emigrate to Canada until 1926, I believe. I have posted four images: the three photos that appear to be all the family possess of his service, and an image of the back of the second photo. As far as I can tell it reads "This was taken in February but I spoilt it in glazing (?). Can you pick me out?" I presume this photo (2 3/4 inches high, 2 3/16 inches wide) was mailed to the young woman who became my grandmother. I'm not fully convinced the man in photo 3 is actually my grandfather at all; he's not wearing a moustache. (In photo 1 he is at far left, standing; in photo 3 he is at far right.) Don't have a photo of the back of the cap badge yet, but I've removed it from its mounting and there are two prongs, projecting back from the backside of the scroll at the bottom of the badge. Is this significant? The images of badge backs I've seen online all have sliders or lugs for attachment. I actually have two RA badges. The other one is mounted at the top of the board on which his medals are mounted; its gilding (if I can use that word) is intact; the quality of the casting does not look as good as that of the badge in the blog post. No photos of this board yet, but I hope to have some made very soon. I'm reluctant to remove it from its board, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 The top two are both of ASC men (the number on his medal is his ASC number, ASC is his regiment) There was a Wessex Division Transport and Supply Column ASC which might explain the title the men gave themselves given that the division had infantry from Hampshires, Dorsets and Devonshires. That would point towards 29 Division. Trouble there is that they went to Gallipoli and he hasn't got the 1914/15 Star. So if he was with them, did he move to another ASC unit in France/Belgium but the lower photo is obviously not France/Belgium so he served some time in a theatre that needed tropical kit. Are there any family stories of time spent in hot climes? Puzzling. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 The Victory and BWM Rolls record his service with the 1/4th Bn Dorsets who sailed to Basra in February 1916 and remained in Mesopotamia for the duration. Lots of medal ribbons in the first pic showing Sidney sporting a Dorsets badge. Second pic I'd say was a ASC badge and third pic.....look closer at the image...is there someone in the shadow of the doorway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 (edited) Just looked at your link to the picture of the cap badge. That's a standard brass other ranks badge, they come in different shades but to me that's noting out of the ordinary. Going by the medal card and photos. He started in the ASC in horse transport as the "T" designation denotes. He then moved to the D&Ds. The first photo is end of war or post war given the medal ribbons on show and oversea stripes on the officer. Max have a look at the capbadge on the top picture. A mixture of ASC and Dorsets. Edit and a hants man! Edited 22 January , 2019 by Scalyback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Forgot to add...if your RA badge has 'two prongs' it's likely to be an officers badge and unlikely to have been worn by Sidney, perhaps given to him as a souvenir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Skeet Posted 22 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2019 MaxD, he does in fact have the 1914-15 Star (I wasn't sure a list of his medals was especially relevant so I didn't list them). My understanding is he would have to have gone overseas between 22 November 1914 and 31 December 1915 in order to qualify. I don't have any stories about Gallipoli... but there are plenty of stories about service in Mesopotamia. And my grandfather once told me that he'd been up in an RFC biplane in Egypt once, when under consideration as an observer candidate. He did not, needless to say, transfer to the RFC. For all I know, that's a tall tale, which I easily swallowed because the family had been under the impression he had served in the artillery. I'm fascinated to know he was in the 1/4th Dorsets. I'd been assuming he somehow got mixed up with the 2nd, if only because the 4th was the Territorial battalion. But if he was part of the 1/4th when it was sent to India in October 1914, wouldn't he have been eligible for the 1914 Star? I'm a bit confused as to how he could have been eligible for the 1914-15 Star, while still arriving in Basra in February 1916. Of course, I know nothing about the process of moving replacements to the different theatres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Skeet Posted 22 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Jay: what are the BWM Rolls? British War Medal(s)? Are those available online anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Sorry friends, not looking closely enough and rushing to boot! Totally missed the medal ribbons and the mixture of cap badges. I don't see a 1914/1915 Star? His medal card does not record it and I find only the BW and V medal roll. JW explains the dates above. India didn't qualify for the Stars, the other two came from Mespotamia. Cap badge - just looked at mine, two prongs along the bottom at the back of the scroll, blackened, officers' cap badge. As his Dorsets number isn't in the 1917 TF renumbering block does this indicate a change to the ASC before that change occurred and why is his card in the order ASC, Dorsets? I'm not seeing this chap's outline service clearly yet. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 18 minutes ago, Michael Skeet said: he does in fact have the 1914-15 Star His medal card and medal roll show he is entitled to the War and Victory only. 2 minutes ago, Michael Skeet said: Jay: what are the BWM Rolls? British War Medal(s)? Are those available online anywhere? Ancestry has his Medal card and medal roll. Max deuce odd service. To me the first photo clearly shows him at a non tropical location at the end or post war with a Dorset cap badge but in the transport section that clearly involves Dorset, Devons and Hants regiments some how. How did he keep that service number? Will have to search around that number and see what comes up for other men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 29 minutes ago, Michael Skeet said: MaxD, he does in fact have the 1914-15 Star And does this too, have his name, number and regiment on it? 2 minutes ago, Scalyback said: Ancestry has his Medal card and medal roll. Who compiled the roll? The Dorset Regt? His card looks half completed. Although it has the Reference Mark ※ in the bottom half, it doesn't have it next to the ASC entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 The medal roll is Dorsets. The reference mark relates to the addition of the T/ prefix to his ASC number at the top (card says prefix inserted and the T/ is clearly a later addition). Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: And does this too, have his name, number and regiment on it? Who compiled the roll? The Dorset Regt? His card looks half completed. Although it has the Reference Mark ※ in the bottom half, it doesn't have it next to the ASC entry. Its under the Dorsets. Comments Sec B A/R 28/4/19 Sec B A/R is??????? In red after that Auth(rise?) C /2/101B He did not go to Z reserve or get disembodied(would an incoming man be disembodied or discharged?) Edit down as a 1/4 man so a TF battalion but keeps his initial number and not a renumber as max mentions. very odd. Edited 22 January , 2019 by Scalyback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Skeet Posted 22 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2019 8 minutes ago, Scalyback said: His medal card and medal roll show he is entitled to the War and Victory only. This is true, but there is a 1914-15 Star on the medal board along with his War and Victory medals (plus some Second World War medals that are a completely different subject). His name and second (i.e. non-Dorsets) service number are engraved on the back, matching the engravings on the edges of the War and Victory medals. I have been assuming, because the Dorsets service number is lower, that he joined the Dorsetshire Regiment in 1914; certainly that listing is first on his medal card. Is it possible I've got it backward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 (edited) .Can't compare the two numbers, they were regimentally allocated at that time, totally different sequences. The first number on the card I am looking at is his ASC number with the (added later) T/ prefix. If you are seeing his Dorset regiment and number first than please post a copy of the card you are looking at. Max Edited 22 January , 2019 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 2 minutes ago, Michael Skeet said: This is true, but there is a 1914-15 Star on the medal board along with his War and Victory medals (plus some Second World War medals that are a completely different subject). His name and second (i.e. non-Dorsets) service number are engraved on the back, matching the engravings on the edges of the War and Victory medals. I have been assuming, because the Dorsets service number is lower, that he joined the Dorsetshire Regiment in 1914; certainly that listing is first on his medal card. Is it possible I've got it backward? It is confusing me and max but given the clues in the pictures and the records it is ASC then Dorset regiment. What are the ww2 medals? Did he serve home guard ww2? Some had RA capbadges!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 Got to sleep on it although I'd love to see the other card ??? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 22 January , 2019 Share Posted 22 January , 2019 41 minutes ago, MaxD said: The medal roll is Dorsets. The reference mark relates to the addition of the T/ prefix to his ASC number at the top (card says prefix inserted and the T/ is clearly a later addition). Max That's also odd. The standard reference mark has 1 dot in each quadrant. It is seen next to the Victory medal entry starting C/2/101 etc. I would have expected another immediately before his ASC entry. The reference mark following 'Prefix inserted. Auth 5A ' is different in that in one quadrant, there are 2 dots. I don't think the two marks relate to one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Skeet Posted 23 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2019 During the second world war my grandfather served in the Canadian Army Service Corps on the home front. (He immigrated to Canada with wife and first 2 (of, eventually, 10) children, in 1926.) Apologies to all about the medal card. I got myself confused and assumed the topmost record was most recent. Plus I was misled by a commercial website that showed him enlisting in the Dorsets in 1914. As well as the ASC. Now I don't know what to think. This is all as fascinating as it is frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now