Rare German Regimental Marking, HELP

[trajan]

8 hours ago, Michael Haselgrove said:

I'm enjoying this thread and thought I would add a couple of comments.  They are as follows: ... In the circumstances, I can see absolutely no reason to suspect that the marking on the firearm in question is anything other than German.  Whether the marking was applied before or after the carbine was converted to a short rifle is another matter.

 

7 hours ago, shippingsteel said:

I think Tony and Michael are absolutely correct. Just to reiterate for the non-specialists, there is nothing about the markings on this carbine that suggest it is anything other than a standard German issue Karabiner M1871 (initially at least before modification to take a bayonet). Large numbers of these were made in Steyr Austria by OEWG for Germany under contract. ... So the Austrian connection is a "red herring" when it comes to the unit marking identification. The real mystery is why these were converted and who used them, find out that and you will answer the unit designation I believe. ... From a bayonet perspective find out what bayonet it attaches. This will give a good indication of which country it served with as a short rifle. Other countries have different bayonets and of course they would have to fit if they were used there. There are a lot of questions here - the unit marking is simply the end product of the research. 

 

39 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

... But what about the unit? The fact that it´s carabine, makes cavalry come into the focus. I assume something with Landwehr-Kavallerie.

There were several Landwehr-Kavallerie-Regiments-Kommandos since the outbreak of the war 1914. Maybe the war-ministry did plan a single Ldw.Kav.Rgt.Kdo. in the 70s/80s? It was probably an immobile unit, became mobile at mobilization. But it´s just a guess... Cron didn´t write anything about those fortmations in that era...

 

I quite agree wth Michael on how interesting this one has become - even to a non-rifle buff like myself! And interesting to hear about the sovereign's markings being, in a sense, mis-applied, i.e., wrong one for the time-period. Same with some Bavarian bayonets of course.

 

On the unit marking, well as SS suggests, find the bayonet. 'Germany' did not unify until 1871, and as far as I can determine - but I do not claim to be the world's expert! - there was no unified system of unit markings until 1877, but individual states did have their own markings systems beore then - e.g., Bavaria, 1872, Vorschrift ueber das Beziechnen und Nummerieren der kleinen Hand-resp. Fuerwaffen nebst einem Anhange betreffend das Anschleifen und Abstumpefn der Blankan Waffen. And even after 1877, the Bavarians kep their own system going... But I still can't find a 'L.K.K.' anywhere. Andy's suggestion of Landwehr-Kavallerie-Regiments-Kommandos is certainly plausibe as a pre-1887/1909 marking for - somewhere! Or, of course, an irregular marking for later. But whey then a single serial with no indication of a sub-unit - e.g. squadron - within a Kavallerii Kommando?

 

Trajan

 

[The Prussian]

Hello Julian!

Maybe ther was no planned sub-unit? In 1914 we had a lot of cavalry units, so there were several LKK. In the lates 70 maybe there was planned only one single LKK?

Edited 3 January , 2019 by The Prussian

[trajan]

A point to bear in mind but if I recall correctly, it was not until late 1914 that Kaiser Bill ordered cavalry units be supplied with bayonets, and so carbines with bayonet fittings - so if for a cavalry unit, then after that date. Let me see if I can find the reference - after getting the boys up...

[The Prussian]

Another idea...

After the war 70/71 the Landwehr troops became imobile. But they needed a staff to organize. If this staff was responsible for the Landwehr-Kavallerie-Korps? But I haven´t read that term anywhere...

 

 

[trajan]

20 minutes ago, trajan said:

A point to bear in mind but if I recall correctly, it was not until late 1914 that Kaiser Bill ordered cavalry units be supplied with bayonets, and so carbines with bayonet fittings - so if for a cavalry unit, then after that date. Let me see if I can find the reference - after getting the boys up...

 

According to my notes, 9th November 1914 to be precise...

 

"Auf den Mir gehaltenen Vortrag bestimme Ich:

Die Unteroffiziere,ausschließlich der Portepeeunteroffiziere mit Offizierseitengewehr, und die Mannschaften der gesamten Kavallerie erhalten anstelle der Kavalleriedegen auf den Karabiner aufpflanzbare Seitengewehre 84/98, die in einer Tasche rechts am Leibriemen zu tragen sind.

Zum Ausgehanzug wird statt dieses Seitengewehrs der Degen auch künftig von den Unteroffizieren und Mannschaften getragen.

Das Kriegsministerium hat das Weitere zu veranlassen.

gez. Wilhelm."

 

According to my notes this is Bayer. KA, FZM 2877.

 

Trajan

5 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Another idea...

After the war 70/71 the Landwehr troops became imobile. But they needed a staff to organize. If this staff was responsible for the Landwehr-Kavallerie-Korps? But I haven´t read that term anywhere...

 

It crossed my mind that a lack of a sub-unit (eskadron) number might indicate a staff-weapon...

[The Prussian]

6 minutes ago, trajan said:

 

It crossed my mind that a lack of a sub-unit (eskadron) number might indicate a staff-weapon...

I don´t think there was a sub-unit. Eskadrons were parts of regiments. The staff of a corps had only one "Eskadron" - the staff itself.

[trajan]

On 02/01/2019 at 09:13, trajan said:

 

OK, the rifle is dated 1876... I checked with the earliest (1877) Prussian regulations re: marking - I don't think I have anything earlier but might have something in my notes... A regular (i.e, not a script of italic) 'L' is Landwehr; a regular 'K' is Kommando, Kaiser, Kurassier, or Kriegskasse.

 

Ok back to here. There was a Prussian General Kriegeskasse... This was located - I understand - at Magdeburg. Each Armee-Korps had one I understand see, e.g., https://oldthing.de/Alte-Farbfoto-AK-1-WK-Kriegskasse-eines-Armeekorps-Neudruck-als-Postkarte-0032945254 - but I am happy to be corrected... Was there a Landwehr Kommando Kriegskasse? 

 

[The Prussian]

Hello Julian!

A friend of mine wrote something about that rifle:

 

aus meiner Sicht scheint mir das eher ein Karabiner 71 zu sein, hergestellt bei OeWG Steyr (die gehörten ja auch zum Loewe-Konzern) 1876, ausgegeben 1877. Das Stück scheint sogar noch nummerngleich zu sein. In der Anlage einige – teils leider etwas unscharfe - Bilder von einem K71 aus meinem Bestand, der ebenfalls 1876 bei OeWG hergestellt wurde und der an die 14. Dragoner ausgegeben war. Die meisten K71 kamen von OeWG, da die deutschen staatlichen Gewehrfabriken zu dieser Zeit mit der Herstellung von Gewehren 71 und von Artilleriegerät ausgelastet waren. Der Superrevisionsstempel „FW“ wurde teils bis in die 80er Jahre hinein verwendet. Die preußische Armee war sparsam und die alten Stempel wurden erst einmal aufgebraucht, bevor neue Stempel, die ja relativ teuer in der Herstellung waren, gekauft wurden.

 

Armin vermutet ein gekürztes G71, ich stimme da eher für einen K71. Genauer könnte man das erst sagen, wenn man ein Bild von der Schlosshülse hätte. Steht da „K. Mod. 71“, ist es ein Karabiner 71. Heißt es dort „J.G. Mod. 71“ (das „J“ ist als „I“ zu lesen) ist es ein Infanterie-Gewehr 71, bei dem dann der Kammerstengel nachträglich gebogen wurde. Auch wenn einige Gewehre 71 bei OeWG hergestellt wurden, liegt aufgrund des Herstellers der Schluss nahe, dass es sich um einen Karabiner handelt. Seltsam ist nur der Umbau: der Vorderschaft wurde gekürzt und die Mündungskappe durch ein unpassenden Oberring mit Halterung für das Seitengewehr 71, ersetzt. Vermutlich war dort auch noch ein Putzstock eingesetzt, der inzwischen fehlt. Da die K71 zu einem großen Teil erst um die Jahrhundertwende aus den Depots verschwanden und teils zivil über die Firma August Stukenbrock in Einbeck, zum Teil aber auch an die militärischen Beschaffungsbehörden anderer Staaten, verkauft wurden, erklären sich die Umbauten.

 

Möglicherweise hatte eine andere Armee auch für die Kavallerie Seitengewehre vorgesehen und die Waffen so umbauen lassen. Oder ein privater Jäger – K71 waren aufgrund ihrer Kürze und Führigkeit und aufgrund des großen Kalibers bei Jägern sehr beliebt – hat sich das bei seinem Büchsenmacher so anfertigen lassen. Eine militärische Weiterverwendung im Ausland würde auch den Truppenstempel erklären: bei dem Truppenstempel fällt auf, dass die Zahlen nicht dem in Deutschland verwendeten Muster entsprechen und dass die Punkte ziemlich genau mittig zwischen den Buchstaben eingeschlagen wurden. Auch das war für deutsche Truppenstempel nicht vorschriftsmäßig.

 

Meine Vermutung geht daher dahin, dass dieser K71 an eine ausländische Armee verkauft wurde, die sich dann den Vorderschaft kürzen und eine neue Schaftkappe aufsetzen ließ. Für genauere Angeben müsste ich das gute Stück aber einmal in die Hand bekommen.

 

I translated it with a translator, I hope it makes sense...:

 

from my point of view this seems to be more of a Karabiner 71, made by OeWG Steyr (they belonged to the Loewe-group) 1876, issued 1877. The piece even seems to be number identical. In the attachment some - partly unfortunately somewhat blurred - pictures of a K71 from my stock, which was also produced 1876 by OeWG and which was issued to the 14th dragoons. Most of the K71 came from OeWG, because the German state rifle factories were busy at that time with the production of rifles 71 and artillery equipment. The super-revision stamp "FW" was partly used until the 80s. The Prussian army was thrifty and the old stamps were used up before new stamps, which were relatively expensive to produce, were bought.

 

Armin suspects a shortened G71, I rather vote for a K71. One could only say that more exactly if one had a picture of the lock case. If it says "K. Mod. 71", it is a Karabiner 71. If it says "J.G. Mod. 71" (the "J" is to be read as "I"), it is an Infantry rifle 71, where the bolt stem was bent afterwards. Even if some rifles 71 were manufactured at OeWG, the conclusion is obvious due to the manufacturer that it concerns a carbine. Only the conversion is strange: the forend was shortened and the muzzle cap was replaced by an unsuitable upper ring with holder for the side rifle 71. Probably a cleaning stick was also used there, which is missing in the meantime. Since a large part of the K71 disappeared from the depots only around the turn of the century and were sold partly civilly by the company August Stukenbrock in Einbeck, but partly also to the military procurement authorities of other states, the conversions can be explained.

 

It is possible that another army had also planned side rifles for the cavalry and had the weapons converted in this way. Or a private hunter - K71 were very popular with hunters because of their brevity and handling and because of their large calibre - had his gunsmith make them this way. A military further use abroad would also explain the troop stamp: with the troop stamp it is noticeable that the numbers do not correspond to the pattern used in Germany and that the dots were hammered rather exactly in the middle between the letters. Also this was not correct for German troop stamps.

 

My assumption is therefore that this K71 was sold to a foreign army, which then shortened its forearm and had a new butt plate put on. For more precise information, however, I would have to get my hands on the good piece.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

In a german forum it´s said, that it will be the stamp of the Württemberg Landjäger-Korps-Kommando

https://www.seitengewehr.de/landjaegerkorps.pdf

The page of the forum (there is a photo of a sword mit L.K.K.172!!!):

http://www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/topic.php?id=7805&

 

Edited 4 January , 2019 by The Prussian

[msdt]

Hi Andy,

Interesting stuff, been running the German posts through Google Translate! The references to Württemberg are significant and if the weapon is a carbine then LKK being the Landjäger-Korps-Kommando seems a pretty good bet.

 

@Steve - what is the model designation on the receiver?

 

Cheers,

Tony

[trajan]

8 hours ago, The Prussian said:

In a german forum it´s said, that it will be the stamp of the Württemberg Landjäger-Korps-Kommando

https://www.seitengewehr.de/landjaegerkorps.pdf

The page of the forum (there is a photo of a sword mit L.K.K.172!!!):

http://www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/topic.php?id=7805&

 

 

32 minutes ago, msdt said:

Hi Andy,

Interesting stuff, been running the German posts through Google Translate! The references to Württemberg are significant and if the weapon is a carbine then LKK being the Landjäger-Korps-Kommando seems a pretty good bet.

 

But note that according to the link Andy sent - https://www.seitengewehr.de/landjaegerkorps.pdf the Württemberg Landjäger-Korps-Kommando were established in 1889...

 

And the other link (penultimate post) states that:

 

"In 1895 the older cavalry carbine M / 71 were modified for the Württemberg Landjäger. Among other things, by shortening the stock (?forestock?) and attaching a bayonet fitting (Aufpflanzvorrichtung). I suspect that this is one of those models. The unit marking could then be Landjäger Korps Kommando, Waffe 171."

 

Julian

Edited 4 January , 2019 by trajan
Clarification of translated quote from German

[msdt]

Hi Julian,

Actually I couldn't see/understand the references to the Kommando in the document, but if they were founded in 1889 surely the dates are a good fit. The carbine (if it is) would have served in its intended role from 1877 with the regular forces. The 88 Commission rifle ushered in the next generation of firearms so these 71 Mausers became obsolete and available for conversion in 1895 for the Kommando.

Cheers,

Tony

 

[Steve1871]

Thank you all very much for the great help. Yes, originally a Karbine, and so marked. A paragraph somewhere in either R. Willis or one of A. Carters books say Wurttenberg modified som Karbines to take a Bayonet

 

Now with you guys help, came up with Wurtenberg Landjaeger Korps Kommando . I believe this to be correct!I can not thank you guy's enough!!!😃

[The Prussian]

That fits!

Great work, guys!

[shippingsteel]

On 03/01/2019 at 08:04, shippingsteel said:

Just to reiterate for the non-specialists, there is nothing about the markings on this carbine that suggest it is anything other than a standard German issue Karabiner M1871 (initially at least before modification to take a bayonet).

 

Yes there was never any doubt that this rifle in question was a Karabiner, as opposed to the Infanterie-Gewehr model. This weapon has the turned down bolt handle of the standard carbine whereas the rifle bolt handle sticks straight out. All the markings (and matching serial numbers) together with the weapon characteristics tell the story of the rifle without actually needing to see the Model designation stamped on the receiver. 

 

It is funny that the suspect unit has been narrowed down to Wurttemburg, as most of the theories about these Short Rifles and their conversions from Carbines revolved around Wurttemburg being the end-user. And as Steve indicated there are unsubstantiated mentions of this in various reference books. Well done to GWF I believe. 

 

PS. Been looking back through some of the Landjaeger links and in the photos HERE you can actually SEE one of these converted weapons in the hands of the Landjaeger (ref.1893) I think that is what is called "the smoking gun".!  I don't know about anyone else but I'm calling it "case closed".!

Edited 4 January , 2019 by shippingsteel

[shippingsteel]

A nice summary of the Landjaeger activities found HERE (in English.!)

 

"In 1871 the kingdom of Württemberg with the capital of Stuttgart had about 1.8 million inhabitant which rose to 4 million by the end of the First World War. The police tasks were performed by the Ortspolizei (local police) and the Landjägerkorps. The Landjagerkorps was first created in 1807. It held other designations at the beginning, but since 1823 utlized the name of Landjägerkorps. The LK was organized into three districts (Stuttgart, Reutlingen, and Ellwangen). For each district there were only two officers plus the commander. The remaining men in the LK were NCOs with the rank of Sergeant to Vize-Feldwebel.

In 1872 the LK had 500 members, whose number increased until 1914 to approximately 600 Landjäger. The Landjägerkorps was distributed in 65 main and 348 branches with only one or two men in each station. The numbers were never very high, which explains why Landjägerkorps items are so scarce. 

Unlike the Ortspolizei (local police), the Landjägerkorps not only perfromed rural policing duties, but also deployed to the field with the Army to serve as military police similar to the Preußen Gendarmerie. Photographs of the Landjagerkorps are quite scarce due to their small numbers, but most photos encountered are of them deployed in the field on maneuvers. To reflect this employment, the LK adopted the Feldgrau Feldrock on 19 May 1917." (ref.Tony&Kaiser, Wehrmacht-Awards forum) 

[trajan]

Well done SS! And just to fill out for those too lazy () to check the link, Tony&kaiser got that information from:  Löhken, Ingo (1988) Polizei-Uniformen der Süddeutschen Staaten 1872-1932. 

 

But do also check out the link from Andy - https://www.seitengewehr.de/landjaegerkorps.pdf - that shows one of these carbines with a bayonet attachment in a photograph dated 1893...

 

And, for now - Steve, you once asked me what the rarest WW1 bayonet would be - one marked to this unit would certainly be a contender!

 

Trajan

[Steve1871]

Thanks for the story "SS". It brings things to life a bit and shows how scarce and small they were compared to the regular military. It is like icing on the cake so to speak!😄

[The Prussian]

The Württemberg Landesjäger were almost modernly equipped for a militarily organized gendarmerie corps. Other formations had to make do with firing needle weapons and Lefaucheux double rifles until World War I. The 71 carbine (from 1895) certainly fulfilled his requirements. As usual, the gendarmerie corps were always equipped with newer weapons only after a time delay to the army. In most cases this also had to do with the lack of financial means.

- 1895: Equipment with adapted 71 carbines.

- 1889: the few mounted land hunters received cavalry sabre and revolver.

- 1902: the station commanders got the revolver M/83.

- from 1904: Further arming of the other crews with revolvers is continued according to available means. The main weapon, however, was still the carbine. The equipment of the entire corps with revolvers was postponed to 1910; of the required 520 pieces, only 158 were available in 1909. The revolvers were used for example during house searches etc. instead of the carbine.

- 1913: different types of pistols were tested, whereupon on 31 December 1913 the permission for the acquisition of 210 pieces of Mauser C96 self-loading pistols was granted.

The situation was similar for the plantable side rifles (after the double rifles). Some pieces were fitted with new parry bars, others were rebuilt. Which means that there is not THE Landjäger side rifle to the 71 carbine, but 3 to 4 variants, which were led next to each other.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

[trajan]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks. But if you put that one up in German maybe I can improve it! E.g., the " side rifle" - is that a carbine?

[AOK4]

1 minute ago, trajan said:

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks. But if you put that one up in German maybe I can improve it! E.g., the " side rifle" - is that a carbine?

 

A "Seitengewehr" is a bayonet.

[The Prussian]

Oh yes... the internet translator... I used it, because it wads too much to translate...

Here it is in german:

 

Die württembergischen Landjäger waren für ein militärisch organisiertes Gendarmerie-Korps fast modern ausgerüstet. Andere Formationen mußten sich bis teilweise in den Weltkrieg noch mit Zündnadelwaffen und Lefaucheux Doppelbüchsen behelfen. Der 71er Karabiner (ab 1895) erfüllte sicherlich seine Anforderungen. Wie allgemein üblich wurden die Gendarmerie-Korps immer erst zeitversetzt zur Armee mit neueren Waffen ausgerüstet. Was in den meisten Fällen auch mit den fehlenden finanziellen Mitteln zu tun hatte.

- 1895: Ausrüstung mit aptierten 71er Karabinern.

- 1889: erhielten (die wenigen) berittenen Landjäger Kavalleriesäbel und Revolver.

- 1902: erhielten die Stationskommandanten den Revolver M/83.

- ab 1904: Die weitere Bewaffnung der übrigen Mannschaften mit Revolvern werden nach Maßgabe verfügbarer Mittel fortgesetzt. Als Hauptwaffe galt aber nach wie vor der Karabiner. Die Ausstattung des gesamten Korps mit Revolvern wurde auf das Jahr 1910 verschoben; von den benötigten 520 Stück waren 1909 erst 158 Stück vorhanden. Die Revolver wurden beispielsweise bei Hausdurchsuchungen etc. statt dem Karabiner geführt.

- 1913: wurden verschiedene Typen von Pistolen erprobt, worauf dann am 31. Dezember 1913 die Genehmigung zur Anschaffung von 210 Stück Mauser C96 Selbstladepistolen erteilt wurde.

Bei den aufpflanzbaren Seitengewehren (nach den Doppelbüchsen) sah es ähnlich aus. Teils wurden Stücke mit neuen Parierstangen aptiert, teil erfolgten Neufertigungen. Was bedeutet, daß es DAS Landjägerseitengewehr zum 71er Karabiner nicht gibt, sondern 3 bis 4 Varianten, welche nebeneinander geführt wurden.

[trajan]

2 hours ago, AOK4 said:

 

A "Seitengewehr" is a bayonet.

 

Das weiss ich, genau - ich hab' so viele seitengewehre zu meine hause... Aber "sidearm" ist ein besser ubersetzung dann "side rifle"...!

[trajan]

2 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Oh yes... the internet translator... I used it, because it wads too much to translate...

Here it is in german:

 

Die württembergischen Landjäger waren für ein militärisch organisiertes Gendarmerie-Korps fast modern ausgerüstet. Andere Formationen mußten sich bis teilweise in den Weltkrieg noch mit Zündnadelwaffen und Lefaucheux Doppelbüchsen behelfen. Der 71er Karabiner (ab 1895) erfüllte sicherlich seine Anforderungen. Wie allgemein üblich wurden die Gendarmerie-Korps immer erst zeitversetzt zur Armee mit neueren Waffen ausgerüstet. Was in den meisten Fällen auch mit den fehlenden finanziellen Mitteln zu tun hatte.

- 1895: Ausrüstung mit aptierten 71er Karabinern.

- 1889: erhielten (die wenigen) berittenen Landjäger Kavalleriesäbel und Revolver.

- 1902: erhielten die Stationskommandanten den Revolver M/83.

- ab 1904: Die weitere Bewaffnung der übrigen Mannschaften mit Revolvern werden nach Maßgabe verfügbarer Mittel fortgesetzt. Als Hauptwaffe galt aber nach wie vor der Karabiner. Die Ausstattung des gesamten Korps mit Revolvern wurde auf das Jahr 1910 verschoben; von den benötigten 520 Stück waren 1909 erst 158 Stück vorhanden. Die Revolver wurden beispielsweise bei Hausdurchsuchungen etc. statt dem Karabiner geführt.

- 1913: wurden verschiedene Typen von Pistolen erprobt, worauf dann am 31. Dezember 1913 die Genehmigung zur Anschaffung von 210 Stück Mauser C96 Selbstladepistolen erteilt wurde.

Bei den aufpflanzbaren Seitengewehren (nach den Doppelbüchsen) sah es ähnlich aus. Teils wurden Stücke mit neuen Parierstangen aptiert, teil erfolgten Neufertigungen. Was bedeutet, daß es DAS Landjägerseitengewehr zum 71er Karabiner nicht gibt, sondern 3 bis 4 Varianten, welche nebeneinander geführt wurden.

 

Here goes...

 

For a Gendarmerie Corps based on military lines the Württemberger Landjäger were provided with quite modern equipment. Until the Great War other similar formations had to manage partly with Zündnadelwaffen and Lefaucheux Doppelbüchsen. The Model 71 carbine (issued from 1895) certainly fulfilled his requirements. As was common practice, the army was always equipped with newer weapons before the Gendarmerie. In most cases this resulted from the lack of funds.

- 1895: Supplied with the Kar. 71 aptierten.

- 1889: the limited numbers of mounted Landjäger were issued with cavalry sabres and revolvers.

- 1902: the station commanders were issued with the revolver M / 83.

- from 1904 onwards: The re-arming of other elements with revolvers was continued in accordance with available funds. The carbine remained the principal weapon. The re-arming of the entire corps with revolvers was postponed to the year 1910; of the 520 pieces required in 1909, only 158 were available. Revolvers were used during house searches, etc. instead of the carbine.

- 1913: various types of pistols were tested; after 31st December 1913, approval for the purchase of 210 Mauser C96 self-loading pistols was granted.

The attachable bayonets looked similar to the Doppelbüchsen. In some cases examples were adapted with new crossguards, others were newly-made. This means that there is no single Landjäger Seitengewehr [=bayonet] for the Kar. 71 but 3 to 4 variants, which were used side by side.

[Steve1871]

Damon Julian, you know I am a M71 and S;71 nut here, that great translation is driving me nut's, in the end, say no "One" specific type bayonet for M71 Kar. But 3-4!!!! One would be "any" official type like S72,mot sage, PFM ect.

 Second could be S69 standard with 1 step, 3rd could be Chasspot conv. Stepped and with S71 cross guard, I feel like a kid and you are wVing a big piece of candy in front of me😜😖😱

[zuluwar2006]

Dear friends

I must admit that I learned a lot if things I did not knew about this theme. 

Bravo to all!!! 

The correspondence is ideal and I am glad I can read the topics at GWF. 

Congratulations fellows

Regards

D.