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Remembered Today:

Kilted Highland Soldier


heatherannej
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Hi there,

Can anyone help identify the regiment which this handsome chap belongs to please?

Many thanks in anticipation Heather

post-23-1106073558.jpg

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I think the glenngary + the badge (what we can see of it) points into the direction of The Black Watch / Royal Highlanders.

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Dashing out - looks like an Argyle & Sutherland Territorial to me.

Aye

Malcolm

Malcom, if you look to the badge it has a star form, A & S H. is more rounded.

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Solid color glengarries were worn by only two of the five kilted regiments. The Black Watch and the Camerons both wore solid blue, the other three regiments had diced ones.

The badge is definately NOT Cameron, so I will agree with our Belgian friend. I would opt for Black Watch.

DrB

;)

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Many thanks to date .....

Would he be a Regular or Territorial/Reserve ........ and is it, indeed, the WW1 era?

Heather

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the tunic looks correct WW1... not pattern 1922

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Solid color glengarries were worn by only two of the five kilted regiments. The Black Watch and the Camerons both wore solid blue, the other three regiments had diced ones.

The badge is definately NOT Cameron, so I will agree with our Belgian friend. I would opt for Black Watch.

DrB

;)

Going by diced glengarries might not be 100% accurate.

In December 1914 Glengerries were simplified to three patterns. Blue with blue Tourie, Blue with Red Tourie and Green. All solid colored and construction modified.

These were supposed to replace the many diced versions. The only indication of former regimental distinction was the Red Touried Glens went to the units whose Glen originally had a red Tourie etc.

So you will find Scots wearing plain colored Glens in units that normally would have had a a diced one.

These simplified Glens never supplanted the diced Glen, and I would assume were unpopular. But if it was the only glen available then it would do.

You can find a mix in the same units.

Joe Sweeney

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Back home - yes the badge does have a Black Watch crosslike appearance to it. I agree with Joe as the Glengarry is a dodgy thing to go by.

Aye

Malcolm

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Blackwatch....and wearing a kilt apron.

Tim D

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Blackwatch....and wearing a kilt apron.

Tim D

excuse my ignorance Tim

a kilt apron?

i'm assuming there is a different meaning than the obvious (not the first thing you'd wear to have your photo taken)

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Heather...as you well know, woolen kilts are and were very expensive. Hence the apron which was intoduced to the kilties in WWI to protect the kilt, especially when crawling about doing warrior-like things. Note the little pouch on the front of it. That served the same purpose as the sporran on the kilt.

The apron was worn front and back.

I agree, not very soldier-like, but quite utilitarian.

DrB

:)

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Hi Heather,

Is this linked with the other thread on Blairgowrie?

I mentioned about the 5th Black Watch in this - this chap is without doubt Black Watch.

Sorry to be pendantic, it is not actually a kilt apron, it is a kilt cover. The apron was just as it says, an apron, and covered the front of the kilt for protection whilst doing jobs. Whereas the cover was to hide the sometimes bright colours of the tartan. I believe the soldiers at the time called it a 'brattie'.

All the best,

Tim

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Sorry forgot to mention that the belt he is wearing is the 1914 pattern stop-gap leather belt. This was worn by the Territorials and New Armies. However, when I spoke with Alf Anderson he was pretty certain that he had the normal 1908 webbing on, as they were one of the first T-battalions out to France. It could, of course, be that he was another line of the 5th or more simply, another battalion entirely.

Having said all this, it is only theory, but may be it will be of some help.

All the best,

Tim

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Thanks to all, to date. This is a very interesting learning curve .......

Yes Tim, this is linked to the Blaigowrie theme .... and the one thing I do know is that there was a connection to the Black Watch within the town - especially with the Perthshire link. When you say he could be "in another line of the BW", what do you mean?

I am researching a relative Alexander Petrie - who was pensioned out of the RASC with T.B and subsequently died shortly after returning home to Blair aged 19. We have no known photograph of him but a cousin has turned this pic up and he does have the look of our Petrie's. So this is me trying to ascertain if he might be him. To say the least, you are all helping a great deal.

I'd love to prove that this pic is him - but if it is he would have had to had enlisted in one regiment and transferred ..... yes?

Many thanks from one ignorant Heather

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Heather,

Don't know if it helps but James Young Duncan ( see my signature) is on the Coupar Angus Memorial just down from Blairgowrie. He died in the Welbeck Rangers, Notts and Derby Regt but was ex Royal Engineers. Seems he was an RE attached to the BW in 39th Division originally. One I keep looking out for info on so keep going.

Aye

Malcolm

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Hi Heather,

Is this linked with the other thread on Blairgowrie?

I mentioned about the 5th Black Watch in this - this chap is without doubt Black Watch.

Sorry to be pendantic, it is not actually a kilt apron, it is a kilt cover. The apron was just as it says, an apron, and covered the front of the kilt for protection whilst doing jobs. Whereas the cover was to hide the sometimes bright colours of the tartan. I believe the soldiers at the time called it a 'brattie'.

All the best,

Tim

Knew apron didn't sound right Tim but just couldn't get it out of my head.

Rgds

Tim D

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Hi Heather,

By another line I mean, rather than the 1st 'battalion' of the 5th battalion, he may have been a in the 2nd 'battalion' of the 5th battalion. This happened when too many soldiers joined up, so the army created what were called second line, third line etc... battalions within a battalion. Whilst often used as reserves for the 1st battalion some second line units did see action. But it is for this reason that you will often see titles such as 1/5th, 2/5th, 3/5th.

Sorry if the reply is a little confusing, I started to write and became acutely aware that it was starting to sound like the rules of cricket! (One team goes in until they are out, and when they are all out the others are in, when the other team are in then you are out...etc :D )

But I am sure that if there is any confusion someone else will be able to clear it up more eloquently.

All the best,

Tim

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Sorry to be pendantic, it is not actually a kilt apron, it is a kilt cover. The apron was just as it says, an apron, and covered the front of the kilt for protection whilst doing jobs. Whereas the cover was to hide the sometimes bright colours of the tartan. I believe the soldiers at the time called it a 'brattie'.

Tim,

What the Highlander is wearing is a Kilt Apron and not a cover. The Apron was a full wrap around piece of khaki cloth governed by pattern 5847a/1904.

There was actually no such item of inventory in the British Army called a "Kilt Cover" through WWI. All clothing scales specifically call out Kilts and Aprons as does the Priced Vocabulary Of Clothing and the RACD Registry of Patterns. The aprons that cover the front only-which one sees in photos were non standard and not procured through the War Office during this time period. These probably came through TFA channels or other such channel.

This may have changed post war.--My records only go up to 1929.

Joe Sweeney

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Hi Joe,

I stand corrected.

Very interesting to read about the front apron being non-issue by the outbreak of WW1. I expect that they come from the turn of the century as no photo of a kilted regiment I have seen around the Boer War has a full wrap apron, just the front cover.

Have you an inventory for the Boer War era?

All the best,

Tim

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Can we be sure that ANYTHING was worn under the apron? And if so, how do we know? And if so, why would anyone wear both at the same time? Given that the idea seems to be to preserve the kilt, to cover it in the trenches seems only a halfway gesture. It would be jolly hot in summer, and jolly wet on a wet winter's day to have both.

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Out of my own expenrience, a apron doesn't chage a thing to the heat or cold. It is only protecting the kilt and it helps to keep it clean and dry.

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Sorry, not convinced. 2RWF wore shorts from April to September every year. Shorts give even less protection than an apron [except for Privates ......... ]

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