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laughton

Zantvoorde British Cemetery

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laughton

The ZIP files were made for this cemetery today:

 

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/cgud1qfuqmbdo/Zantvoorde_British_Cemetery

 

There are 1,583 burials and 1,135 are unidentified - incredible! Most relate to the fall 1914 action.

 

This comes as a result of this topic:

 

Possible Error - Pte. Harry Lewis, 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch)

 

Richard of Canada

 

Note: some time later I did write up the cemetery details, which are now in Post #16

Edited by laughton
added note in red

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laughton

Here are some of the potential leads from this cemetery. If they look promising then I will place them in separate topics. I was surprised to see a Canadian there in the early stages of this review: Lt. Cockshutt, 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles 2 June 1916 (and here COG-BR 1840131). I have not checked to see if any of these were subsequently named on the GRRF documents. 

  1. Possible Error - Pte. Harry Lewis, 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch)
  2. Grenadier Guards Officer 1914 - COG-BR 1840030 (see next page for J. W. TOLLEY same regiment)
  3. Serjeant Royal Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840035 (they named Major Stuckley on 1840036)
  4. Captain Gordon Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840037 - see also 6>D.5 998 or 9982
  5. Two Canadians of the 14th Battalion - check for interest to CEFSG - COG-BR 1840052
  6. Serjeant Royal Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840057
  7. Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840071
  8. Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840078
  9. 28775 on spoon - if that means anything? COG-BR 1840089
  10. Unknown Officer Staffordshire Regiment - COG-BR 1840094 and another one at COG-BR 1840101 and a Captain at 1840116
  11. 7296 Corporal 2nd Scots Guards - COG-BR 1840115
  12. 125121 Border Regiment - COG-BR 1840118
  13. Check out these two with Numbers from AMERIKA German Cemetery - COG-BR 1840120
  14. ** Two Aviators with plane serial numbers - may be already found by Trevor? COG-BR 1840135 - PING TREVOR HENSHAW!
  15. Unknown Lance Corporals COG-BR 1840141 and on following page as well

That should keep me busy for a day or two!

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dickaren
24 minutes ago, laughton said:

Here are some of the potential leads from this cemetery. If they look promising then I will place them in separate topics. I was surprised to see a Canadian there in the early stages of this review: Lt. Cockshutt, 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles 2 June 1916 (and here COG-BR 1840131). I have not checked to see if any of these were subsequently named on the GRRF documents. 

  1. Possible Error - Pte. Harry Lewis, 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch)
  2. Grenadier Guards Officer 1914 - COG-BR 1840030 (see next page for J. W. TOLLEY same regiment)
  3. Serjeant Royal Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840035 (they named Major Stuckley on 1840036)
  4. Captain Gordon Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840037 - see also 6>D.5 998 or 9982
  5. Two Canadians of the 14th Battalion - check for interest to CEFSG - COG-BR 1840052
  6. Serjeant Royal Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840057
  7. Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840071
  8. Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840078
  9. 28775 on spoon - if that means anything? COG-BR 1840089
  10. Unknown Officer Staffordshire Regiment - COG-BR 1840094 and another one at COG-BR 1840101 and a Captain at 1840116
  11. 7296 Corporal 2nd Scots Guards - COG-BR 1840115
  12. 125121 Border Regiment - COG-BR 1840118
  13. Check out these two with Numbers from AMERIKA German Cemetery - COG-BR 1840120
  14. ** Two Aviators with plane serial numbers - may be already found by Trevor? COG-BR 1840135 - PING TREVOR HENSHAW!
  15. Unknown Lance Corporals COG-BR 1840141 and on following page as well

That should keep me busy for a day or two!

Richard

Add unknown captain Royal Berks in 5.J.15. Only one unknown for 1914 on the Menin Gate-Oliver Steele 25.10.14

Good hunting

Richard

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laughton

Thanks for that - probably missed others! Let me know if you are going to tackle any of these cases.

 

GRRF is clear on this case.

 

Secondary Regiment is also clear.

 

Looks like you have one!

 

We should also check that they were at 28.J.36.c.7.5 at that time, just in case they have the regiment wrong. Never leave a stone unturned!

 

UPDATE: I have created a new topic for this one which is now here:

 

Zantvoorde British Cemetery Case #2: Captain Royal Berkshire Regiment 1914

 

Edited by laughton
added now Case #2 with a separate topic

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thetrenchrat22
9 hours ago, laughton said:

Here are some of the potential leads from this cemetery. If they look promising then I will place them in separate topics.

 

 I have not checked to see if any of these were subsequently named on the GRRF documents. 

  1. 7296 Corporal 2nd Scots Guards - COG-BR 1840115

 

6784 Cpl Bernard Kelly, 2nd Battalion Scots Guards was killed in Action on 26/10/1914 and is the unknown 7296 Unknown Cpl 2nd Scots Guards who is buried in Plot 6, Row K, Grave 14 

 

How the IWGC managed to get 6784 from 7296.  I don’t know

 

as there is  a 7296 Private Alexander Gallacher 1st Battalion Scots Guards.  Killed in Action on 25/01/1915 and has his name on the Le Touret Memorial, France

 

he is the only Scots Guards with that number 

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laughton

Thanks Alan, as I had not yet checked the GRRF documents. I will finish that now. With Richard's (Dick's?) addition, this is the updated list. I will convert these into Case #'s as done in the other cemeteries if they go forward. I will link them here to their new topic title. Numbers changed to dots so not confused with Case #, which is linked to the new topic if it is BLUE.

 

  • Case #1: Possible Error - Pte. Harry Lewis, 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch)
  • Grenadier Guards Officer 1914 - COG-BR 1840030 (see next page for J. W. TOLLEY same regiment)
  • Serjeant Royal Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840035 (they named Major Stuckley on 1840036)
  • Case #4: Captain Gordon Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840037
    • see also 6.D.5 998 or 9982 (Identified)
  • Two Canadians of the 14th Battalion - check for interest to CEFSG - COG-BR 1840052 (CLOSED - see below, 137 candidates)
  • Serjeant Royal Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840057
  • Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840071
  • Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840078
  • 28775 on spoon - if that means anything? COG-BR 1840089
  • Unknown Officer Staffordshire Regiment
  • 7296 Corporal 2nd Scots Guards - COG-BR 1840115 (CLOSED - see Alan's post above, this man was identified)
  • Case #2: Unknown Captain Royal Berkshire Regiment 1914 - COG-BR 1840118 (ADDED by Richard/dickaren) (CWGC #394)
    • we can not close this one until we find out how a man who was hit by a large shell ended up way out of the area
  • 125121 Border Regiment - COG-BR 1840118
  • Check out these two with Numbers from AMERIKA German Cemetery - COG-BR 1840120
  • Case #3: Two Aviators with plane serial numbers - may be already found by Trevor? COG-BR 1840135 - PING TREVOR HENSHAW!
  • Unknown Lance Corporals COG-BR 1840141 and on following page as well
Edited by laughton
updating list as checked

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laughton

Two Canadians of the 14th Battalion - COG-BR 1840052

They are at 28.I.22.a (central), which places on the northeastern bank of Zillebeke Lake. I suspect that places them in June 1916.

There are 137 men of the 14th Bn on the Menin Gate Memorial for June 1916!

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laughton

The only case for Zantvoorde on the CWGC list is the one noted above for the Captain of the Royal Berks. I have added the case file number to the list.

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dickaren
On ‎26‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 11:13, laughton said:

Thanks Alan, as I had not yet checked the GRRF documents. I will finish that now. With Richard's (Dick's?) addition, this is the updated list. I will convert these into Case #'s as done in the other cemeteries if they go forward. I will link them here to their new topic title. Numbers changed to dots so not confused with Case #, which is linked to the new topic if it is BLUE.

 

  • Case #1: Possible Error - Pte. Harry Lewis, 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch)
  • Grenadier Guards Officer 1914 - COG-BR 1840030 (see next page for J. W. TOLLEY same regiment)
  • Serjeant Royal Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840035 (they named Major Stuckley on 1840036)
  • Captain Gordon Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840037 - see also 6.D.5 998 or 9982
  • Two Canadians of the 14th Battalion - check for interest to CEFSG - COG-BR 1840052 (CLOSED - see below, 137 candidates)
  • Serjeant Royal Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840057
  • Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840071
  • Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840078
  • 28775 on spoon - if that means anything? COG-BR 1840089
  • Unknown Officer Staffordshire Regiment - COG-BR 1840094 and another one at COG-BR 1840101 and a Captain at 1840116
  • 7296 Corporal 2nd Scots Guards - COG-BR 1840115 (CLOSED - see Alan's post above, this man was identified)
  • Case #2: Unknown Captain Royal Berkshire Regiment 1914 - COG-BR 1840118 (ADDED by Richard/dickaren) (CWGC #394)
  • 125121 Border Regiment - COG-BR 1840118
  • Check out these two with Numbers from AMERIKA German Cemetery - COG-BR 1840120
  • Case #3: Two Aviators with plane serial numbers - may be already found by Trevor? COG-BR 1840135 - PING TREVOR HENSHAW!
  • Unknown Lance Corporals COG-BR 1840141 and on following page as well

 

Hi Richard,

The Staffordshire captain in 6 J 19 is Clement Gascoyen Ransford

Richard

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laughton

Updated list - some stroked out as not worth the hunt:

 

  • Case #1: Possible Error - Pte. Harry Lewis, 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch)
  • Grenadier Guards Officer 1914 - COG-BR 1840030 (see next page for J. W. TOLLEY same regiment - 1st Bn.)
    • 1 Major (Colby); 1 Captain (Rennie); 2 Lieutenants (link)
    • CLOSED - cannot distinguish
  • Serjeant Royal Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840035 (they named Major Stuckley on 1840036)
    • 11 candidates for 1914 (CWGC Link)
    • CLOSED - cannot distinguish
  • Case #4: Captain Gordon Highlanders 1914 - COG-BR 1840037
    • see also 6.D.5 998 or 9982 (Identified)
  • Two Canadians of the 14th Battalion - check for interest to CEFSG - COG-BR 1840052 (CLOSED - see below, 137 candidates)
  • Serjeant Royal Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840057 (no date given)
  • Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840071(no date given)
  • Corporal Royal Welsh Fusiliers - COG-BR 1840078 (no date given)
  • 28775 on spoon - if that means anything? COG-BR 1840089 (nobody missing in Belgium, number struck out)
  • Unknown Officer Staffordshire Regiment
  • 7296 Corporal 2nd Scots Guards - COG-BR 1840115 (CLOSED - see Alan's post above, this man was identified)
  • Case #2: Unknown Captain Royal Berkshire Regiment 1914 - COG-BR 1840118 (ADDED by Richard/dickaren) (CWGC #394)
    • we can not close this one until we find out how a man who was hit by a large shell ended up way out of the area
  • 12511 Border Regiment - COG-BR 1840118 (one has 7511)
  • Case #5: Check out these two with Numbers from AMERIKA German Cemetery - COG-BR 1840120
    • 3 candidates for the Lt Grenadier Guards (check who was a POW)
      • Douglas-Pennant is on the ICRC database (link) - POW but far away!
      • Antrobus - many of them but not this one (link)
      • Miller - nope (link)
  • Case #3: Two Aviators with plane serial numbers - may be already found by Trevor? COG-BR 1840135 - PING TREVOR HENSHAW!
  • Unknown Lance Corporals COG-BR 1840141 and on following page as well (no dates given)
Edited by laughton

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laughton

Thanks to Andy there is a lead on an additional set of documents for this cemetery. :thumbsup:

 

See here: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/278058-messines-ridge-british-cemetery-case-3-unknown-captain-kings-royal-rifle-corps/?do=findComment&comment=2844534

 

 

I will update the files tomorrow here:

 

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/cgud1qfuqmbdo/Zantvoorde_British_Cemetery

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laughton

The new set of COG-BR documents has been added:

If any other members come across missing documents, for any cemetery, please let me know and I will go fetch the rest. One page by Andy resulted in almost 100 new documents.

Edited by laughton
found more

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laughton

Some of the interesting entries in the new batch of documents, as prior to this most all entries were 1914:

 

I had not put in the CWGC details about this cemetery, as I now do for each location:

Quote

On 30 October 1914, the village of Zantvoorde (now Zandvoorde) was held by the 1st and 2nd Life Guards, numbering between 300 and 400 men. It was bombarded for over an hour with heavy guns and then taken by the 39th German Division and three attached battalions. The whole front of the 3rd Cavalry Division was driven back to the Klein-Zillebeke ridge.

 

The village could not be retaken and remained in German hands until 28 September 1918.

 

The Household Cavalry Memorial, unveiled by Lord Haig in May 1924, stands on the South side of the village at the place where part of the Brigade was annihilated in 1914.

 

Zantvoorde British Cemetery was made after the Armistice when remains were brought in from the battlefields and nearby German cemeteries. Many were those of soldiers who died in the desperate fighting round Zantvoorde, Zillebeke and Gheluvelt in the latter part of October 1914.

 

There are now 1,583 servicemen of the First World War buried or commemorated in the cemetery. 1,135 of the burials are unidentified. Special memorials commemorate 32 soldiers buried in two of the German cemeteries whose graves could not be found on concentration.

 

Edited by laughton
updating details in stages

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David Filsell

Many thanks for the above.

Amongst the unknown buried in Zandvoorde is almost certainly  a relative of mine Private Albert Filsell of the RWF who was reported missing on October 30. When the village was taken by the Germans, his battalion was taken in the flanks, and having already suffered heavy losses in the defence of Ypres were reduced to small cadre. Sadly his brother was amongst those killed on HMS Queen Mary at Jutland.

Regards

David 

Edited by David Filsell

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fetubi

Richard, I am on the case. Thank you. In this, I include your email from 07/2018! Appear to have completely missed it!

Trevor

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laughton

Unlike most of the cemeteries researched, I had not posted the details about the cemetery from the CWGC site and then checked on all the locations (Trench Map Coordinates TMC) for the main concentration cemeteries or battlefield sites. Perhaps this was because the CWGC itself had little information:

 

Quote

On 30 October 1914, the village of Zantvoorde (now Zandvoorde) was held by the 1st and 2nd Life Guards, numbering between 300 and 400 men. It was bombarded for over an hour with heavy guns and then taken by the 39th German Division and three attached battalions. The whole front of the 3rd Cavalry Division was driven back to the Klein-Zillebeke ridge. The village could not be retaken and remained in German hands until 28 September 1918. The Household Cavalry Memorial, unveiled by Lord Haig in May 1924, stands on the South side of the village at the place where part of the Brigade was annihilated in 1914. Zantvoorde British Cemetery was made after the Armistice when remains were brought in from the battlefields and nearby German cemeteries. Many were those of soldiers who died in the desperate fighting round Zantvoorde, Zillebeke and Gheluvelt in the latter part of October 1914. There are now 1,583 servicemen of the First World War buried or commemorated in the cemetery. 1,135 of the burials are unidentified. Special memorials commemorate 32 soldiers buried in two of the German cemeteries whose graves could not be found on concentration. The cemetery also contains one Second World War burial.

 

Here is what I could find from the concentration records: (there are many others, these are some of the larger ones - the COG-BR may just be the first in a series)

This is a good one but fortunately most are in better condition!

 

doc2157821.JPG

 

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clive_hughes

Laughton,

Apologies, moved this from the "daughter" thread to here, as more relevant.

 

Just an update on the fate of 2nd Lt. Charles Heyland Evans, from Anglesey, kia 26 October 1914.  I now have a copy of his officer's file, and there are documents regarding his fate. 

 

They are based on British POW statements (witnesses' names and numbers given), and vary from his being killed by MG fire during the main attack, to being shot as a wounded prisoner trying to protect other men, to being last seen driven off as a wounded prisoner in a German vehicle!  So no help at all, I'm afraid.

 

Cheers,

Clive 

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