daggers Posted 9 July , 2018 Share Posted 9 July , 2018 Not sure about the culture aspect, but a forthcoming episode featuring Lee Mack (16 July?) is believed to hold some Great War interest. BBC1. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 9 July , 2018 Share Posted 9 July , 2018 Dags I have it on good authority (Tony Wainwright of the Liverpool Pals organisation) that there is significant interest. I won't spoil the suspense with a spoiler. Pete. P.S. 3 down, 997 to go to the next milestone..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 I exchanged quite a few emails with the researchers at Wall to Wall (the production company) in August last year about Lee Mack's ancestor, William McKillop Much of it focussed on whether he was one of the men who enlisted on 31st August 1914, as they were keen to point out in the program last night. I was gutted that I wasn't part of the program or even included in the credits :-) I could just hear the narrator, "Lee is meeting with Stephen Nulty, who is good at pretending that he knows what he's on about" :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 I do quite a lot of research for the WDYTYA series. Very rarely get a mention in the credits. So you are not alone, Stephen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 The few minutes about the Great War that I saw last night had me shouting at the TV. The rest of it was interesting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 Have to say that I did the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 Thanks Chris, good to know I am not alone !! I was more hopeful that they might have said more about the Watch Factory where 17 KLR were initially based as we discussed that quite a lot. It has recently been redeveloped into a retirement village, while retaining the core building Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard_Lewis Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 I don't get asked very often re TV productions but am now much more upfront than I had been. They want my hard-wrought research? Then they pay. Or move along... Got a nice fee, an appearance on camera and a titles credit for a BBC Wales production a couple of years back. They blinked first...I had the required info to hand. They didn't! Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 20 July , 2018 Share Posted 20 July , 2018 (edited) On 17/07/2018 at 08:36, Stephen Nulty said: I exchanged quite a few emails with the researchers at Wall to Wall (the production company) in August last year about Lee Mack's ancestor, William McKillop So did I. They told me that although my research was "key to the programme" they could not guarantee a credit as the final decision rested with the BBC, and I, thinking most people generally play fair, pressed on, and gave them a six pages of research and two postcards from my collection. The e-mail exchanges ended like this: WDYTYA to me: "Your research and postcards were crucial to one of the best scenes of the film so we cannot thank you enough. In the scene we have a Lecturer of WWI theatre performance explaining the role of the Optimists in WWI. She goes onto answer questions from our celebrity and tell them about the wider context of the Optimists and other concert troupes during WWI. She explains the different aspects to their performance, what it would mean for morale and the context of where they were performing. Your postcards are then revealed to the celebrity and their ancestor is pointed out to them. It all makes for a great scene and my description of it probably is not doing it justice. As for the final thing we would need you to do so we can show the postcards for broadcast, is for you to sign a release form for us. This is so we have permission to broadcast the postcards" Me to WDYTYA: So let me get this straight: You contact me because I am recognised by members of the Great War research community as the expert on WW1 British army concert parties. You bombard me with questions, and use my research and items from my personal collection, to build "one of the best scenes of the film", and say my material and input were "crucial". Yet only when all is finished to you tell me that my research and property will be presented by someone who has not done any research into this crucial material, and I may well not even be credited. To add more insult to injury, you expect, and get, all this free. Well, I can assure you that I will NOT be signing your release form, nor do I give permission for you to use any information I have provided. If my research and property are not good enough to be delivered by me, then they are not good enough at all; and I am certainly not willing to watch someone masquerading before the nation as the originator and custodian of my research. My decision is final. Your faithfully, Katharine Wills Edited 20 July , 2018 by Kate Wills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 20 July , 2018 Share Posted 20 July , 2018 OUCH (well done) Kate Cheers Bob R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 20 July , 2018 Share Posted 20 July , 2018 Yes, well done Katharine (did you REALLY use your Sunday name to them) :-) I never got as far as discussing credit with them, the primary focus was on the determination of his enlistment date, though the email thread was extensive over a period of about three weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 20 July , 2018 Share Posted 20 July , 2018 Very well done, Kate. (I vaguely watched the program, but must watch it again to see who the lecturer of WW1 theatre performance was.) RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 20 July , 2018 Share Posted 20 July , 2018 Kate, I've just watched it - and thought it was a curiously stiff performance from the Lecturer in WW1 theatre performance. Were those two postcards they used not yours, then? She didn't give any impression of knowing a lot about them and being really keen to show them. I've never heard of Lee Mack but being a performer himself he was far more relaxed and natural and seemed to be trying to get more out of her than she had to give with her solemn pronouncements. Commiserations. I am frequently annoyed at the way people undervalue other people's research but this is a particularly irritating example. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 (edited) Hi Liz, Martin handed my two postcards to a WDYTYA representative on a trip to London on 23rd February, for filming scheduled for March. The pair, with the same images as those broadcast, had no messages on the reverse. The next I heard from them was on 20th March, when WDYTYA said "I’d like to personally thank you for all your help with the episode and the film would not have been amazing as it was without your help and input. The Optimists postcards were key to this, and I’m hoping to return them back to you safely" and attached a Materials Licence agreement form for me to sign. By 29th March, following my tirade, they replied with "Your postcards will not appear in the programme. We had 2 sets of identical postcards – one set from you and a second set from another source. We filmed with this second set of postcards because one of them had a review of the show written on the back which we used in the scene. At the time when we requested to have your postcards on loan we were not yet aware of the other set." So perhaps they had a sudden stroke of luck, but then why chase me to sign a Licence Agreement? I might also say, having collected the things for 20 years, that though they are not rare cards, they don't crop up often. I've never heard of half the 'celebrities' they investigate either. Who was that dimmo earlier in the series who asked "Genoa? Where's that?" Ye gods! and just think of all the research undertaken freely by people on this thread alone, while the sleb goes on a jolly, doubtless for a four-figure fee. Edited 22 July , 2018 by Kate Wills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 On 20/07/2018 at 19:04, Liz in Eastbourne said: Kate, I've just watched it - and thought it was a curiously stiff performance from the Lecturer in WW1 theatre performance. ... She didn't give any impression of knowing a lot about them and being really keen to show them. I've never heard of Lee Mack but being a performer himself he was far more relaxed and natural and seemed to be trying to get more out of her than she had to give with her solemn pronouncements. Yes Liz. We learned "there was a battle going on... it was bloody, lots of people were killed". Enlightening stuff. No mention of The Optimists having lost all their props and piano in a fire, or losing them a second time in the March retreat, or of going home to give fundraising performances in the major theatres of Liverpool and Birkenhead at Christmas 1917. According to our expert "there are no reports of them after 1918". That's odd. I supplied a reference for 3rd July 1919, but then I suppose a theatre historian rarely consults the columns of The Stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 After watching the programme I updated these two relevant topics on The Optimists with info culled from the programme but before spotting the conversations here. Reading Pals' experiences with Wall To Wall - particularly Kate's - has got my blood boiling . Kate - I hope my posting material much of which clearly originated from you has not rubbed salt into the wounds. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 I like WDYTYA but have often felt that a "reveal" moment is staged and that there is too much "serendipity" in finding a "definite" link, such as Vlad the Impaler being an ancestor or some such rubbish. I am totally sceptical about the Optimist postcards, I believe they were Kates with a different postcard reverse being used to enhance the Optiimists' story. I do wonder if these "celebs" really believe what they're told? Surely by now one of them had a brain cell that said "Hang on, that can't be right"? Just the view of an observer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 I can assure you that the "reveals" are not staged. Having done some filming for an earlier episode I was really surprised to find that the celeb had no prior knowledge at all of what they were about to be shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 Certainly there are some aspects which are staged. Some time ago there was an episode involving an ancestor in India in the British Raj period in India. An academic in India suddenly produced a relevant document and the implication was certainly that the document had been found by the academic in an Archive in India. However, it later emerged that this document was a document in the possession of a family member, nothing to do with being found in an Indian Archive. The situation was embellished to look as though it was found in India, obviously this was thought to be more interesting. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 7 hours ago, Kate Wills said: Hi Liz, Martin handed my two postcards to a WDYTYA representative on a trip to London on 23rd February, for filming scheduled for March. The pair, with the same images as those broadcast, had no messages on the reverse. The next I heard from them was on 20th March, when WDYTYA said "I’d like to personally thank you for all your help with the episode and the film would not have been amazing as it was without your help and input. The Optimists postcards were key to this, and I’m hoping to return them back to you safely" and attached a Materials Licence agreement form for me to sign. By 29th March, following my tirade, they replied with "Your postcards will not appear in the programme. We had 2 sets of identical postcards – one set from you and a second set from another source. We filmed with this second set of postcards because one of them had a review of the show written on the back which we used in the scene. At the time when we requested to have your postcards on loan we were not yet aware of the other set." So perhaps they had a sudden stroke of luck, but then why chase me to sign a Licence Agreement? I might also say, having collected the things for 20 years, that though they are not rare cards, they don't crop up often. I've never heard of half the 'celebrities' they investigate either. Who was that dimmo earlier in the series who asked "Genoa? Where's that?" Ye gods! and just think of all the research undertaken freely by people on this thread alone, while the sleb goes on a jolly, doubtless for a four-figure fee. I am trying hard to believe their account of how they got two identical postcards to your two, which were 'key to this [amazing film]' but given the timing, am finding it difficult. On the other hand I suppose knowing what they were looking for having got yours might have enabled this sudden stroke of luck. But actually the thing that's most stupid is having that person instead of you at all, Kate - she was a figurehead, but why? It was an absolutely wooden and uninformative contribution. Maddening. Liz 6 hours ago, Kate Wills said: Yes Liz. We learned "there was a battle going on... it was bloody, lots of people were killed". Enlightening stuff. No mention of The Optimists having lost all their props and piano in a fire, or losing them a second time in the March retreat, or of going home to give fundraising performances in the major theatres of Liverpool and Birkenhead at Christmas 1917. According to our expert "there are no reports of them after 1918". That's odd. I supplied a reference for 3rd July 1919, but then I suppose a theatre historian rarely consults the columns of The Stage. And that would have been so much more interesting. Aargh. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 2 hours ago, Liz in Eastbourne said: I am trying hard to believe their account of how they got two identical postcards to your two, which were 'key to this [amazing film]' but given the timing, am finding it difficult. On the other hand I suppose knowing what they were looking for having got yours might have enabled this sudden stroke of luck. But actually the thing that's most stupid is having that person instead of you at all, Kate - she was a figurehead, but why? It was an absolutely wooden and uninformative contribution. Maddening. Liz Liz - I could not agree more. So much so, that I repeat my content from the 30th Div concert party thread ... 7 hours ago, MBrockway said: Very disappointing to hear of strong scholarship being treated so badly. Speaking personally I would much rather have watched a scene where Kate discussed The Optimists with Lee Mack than the very bland lecturer the Beeb used, who seemed to have neither enthusiasm for the subject, nor much depth of knowledge. Lee Mack would have got a much better picture of his grandfather's experience and I think the 'drama' of such a scene would have been a great deal higher. BBC missed an open goal there IMHO. Mark Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 (edited) I have been involved in a number of radio broadcasts with the Beeb since 2014 and they differed considerably. My first was about the Coventry Ordnance Works. The producer was well informed about the subject and I got along with her very well. The seven minute broadcast was, given the time constraint, very reasonable. What I did not realise was that my name was put on a BBC data base and broadcasters across the country had access to this along with contact details. Subsequently I received telephone calls from two presenters on national radio. One asked me what I thought about D-Day. I explained that I wasn't even born then although I had an interest in WW2. I was pushed by said presenter who said he needed a comment for his piece in an hours time. I told him I wasn't willing to comment at such short notice. He got quite huffy and said that he would have me removed from the data base. I told him to go ahead or words to that effect. Being a talking head is not a very good idea. Yours sincerely TR (blacklisted by the Beeb) Edited 22 July , 2018 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 Here are the two cards that I sent off to Wall to Wall TV for Lee Mack's WDYTYA. Compare the Paderewski card with the one used on the broadcast at about 27:40 https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bbzh45/who-do-you-think-you-are-series-15-3-lee-mack The Paderewski card has a double looping crease which is best seen on the scan below looping round from the far left pierrot's belt and across his forward leg. There is a small spot on the left border near the top, and a short crease on the edge directly above the same pierrot's head. There are other matching marks too, best seen looking at the original card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 22 hours ago, MBrockway said: Liz - I could not agree more. So much so, that I repeat my content from the 30th Div concert party thread ... Mark Thanks Mark, I hadn't seen that post, and completely agree with it. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 9 hours ago, Kate Wills said: Here are the two cards that I sent off to Wall to Wall TV for Lee Mack's WDYTYA. Compare the Paderewski card with the one used on the broadcast at about 27:40 https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bbzh45/who-do-you-think-you-are-series-15-3-lee-mack The Paderewski card has a double looping crease which is best seen on the scan below looping round from the far left pierrot's belt and across his forward leg. There is a small spot on the left border near the top, and a short crease on the edge directly above the same pierrot's head. There are other matching marks too, best seen looking at the original card. Kate I don't fully understand - do these marks prove they were your postcards? or the reverse? or neither? I did wonder if they'd scanned them and mocked them up, as they looked in very good condition! Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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