Who do you think you are: WW1 interest?

[Kath]

5 minutes ago, Liz in Eastbourne said:

I did wonder if they'd scanned them and mocked them up, as they looked in very good condition!

 

Easily done!

[Promenade]

I too was approached (via a proxy) in August 2017 by the company 'researching' McKillop. This was probably as I have been researching the officers and men of the Liverpool Regt, in association with the Museum of Liverpool, for over 25 years and have built up a database of almost 100,000 officers and men who fought in the war - I have also published a book about the Liverpool Pals on 1/7/16. I consulted a colleague who also has an interest in the Regt he said that he also had been consulted - I started to think how many hares had they set running! I did not know Steve Nulty had also been approached. I sent the researchers the information below on McKillop - some of it is from extremely rare sources (and not available on the internet!). To cut a long story short I was not asked to sign any release - don't even think they used any of my info . Was disappointed to see the 'talking heads' presumably an academic title means invariably that the speaker is an expert on a subject. Even though I would have declined it would have been nice to have been asked to appear on the program - indeed the curator of the Kings Collection for the Museum is also more than capable of holding her own when interviewed in the media. I can well sympathise with Kate (THE acknowledged expert on WW1 era troupes and entertainers). In summary I would not cooperate with WDYTYA researchers again UNLESS the input provided by WW1 researchers is acknowledged in the final credits.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

William Alex Mckillop

Address as at embarkation for France 18 Hartington Rd, Liverpool. Father WAI McKillop at same address. - this was a 12 roomed dwelling in a well-to-do area of Liverpool.

Enlisted Liverpool 1/9/14 and crossed to France with C Coy 17 KLR 7/11/15. Appointed paid L/Cpl 27/6/16. On leave to UK 10-17/10/16. There is no mention of him being wounded or falling ill whilst with 17 KLR. Transferred to 4 KLR 17/9/18. (Casualty Ledger - primary source)

The 17th Bn returned to the UK on 30/6/18 to prepare to re-embark for service in Russia. It is possible that L/Cpl McKillop was one of the 45 men mentioned by the researcher who, for whatever reason, did not serve in Russia and were transferred to the 4th Bn for continued service in France. 

He almost certainly took part in the comparatively successful attack by 17 KLR on 1/7/16 .

 

Served :

17 KLR

4 KLR

 

His birth was registered 2Q 1889

 

McKILLOP Alexander William Ifill of Scotsfield 84 Edgwarebury lane Edgware Middlesex died 23 August 1932 Probate London 24 September to Mary Elizabeth McKillop widow and Patrick Arthur Stewart agent. Effects £475 2s. 5d. (National Probate Calendar - Index of Wills and Administrations)

 

McKILLOP Elizabeth otherwise Mary Elizabeth of Norden House St. Joseph Convent Watford Way Hendon Middlesex widow died 28 September 1944 at 1 Moss Hall-crescent Finchley Middlesex Probate Llandudno 20 November to William Alexander McKillop electrical engineer and Patrick Arthur Stewart manufacturers agent. Effects £4926 19s. 2d. (National Probate Calendar - Index of Wills and Administrations)

 

William appears to have been conceived out of wedlock - the marriage of his parents was registered in Derby 1Q 1889.

 

I did a bit of tangential searching and came up with an advert (dated Aug 1922) which may or not be him (see attached [not included here])

 

1911 Census

William Alex Ifie McKillop

Age: 42

Occupation: Mechanical Engineer

Address: 13 Lilly Avenue Withington Manchester - the dwelling had 7 rooms

Estimated Birth Year: 1869

Where born: Tobago, West Indies

Spouse: Mary Elizabeth McKillop 42, b. Derby

Kalie McKillop 6, b. Urmston, Lancs

Kenneth Jas McKillop 2, b. Urmston, Lancs

John Driscoll, father-in-law, about 65, widower, former driller with Midland Railway Company, b. Cork

He had been married for 12 years [sic] -  4 of his 5 children survived

 

1901 Census

William Alex McKillop

Age:    11

Address: 16 Meynell St, Derby

Estimated birth year: abt 1890

Born: Derby

Father: William Alex Iffil McKillop, 32, mechanical engineer, b. Tobago, W Indies

Mother: Mary Elizabeth McKillop, 32, b. Derby

Annie W McKillop, 9, b. Derby

 

1891 Census

William McKillop

Age: 1

Address: 106 Foley St., Kirkdale, Liverpool

Relationship: Lodger

Birth Year: 1890

Birth Place: Derbyshire, England

Mother: Elizabeth McKillop, 23, b. Derby

William Conlan 34, railway foreman, b. Edinburgh

Ann Conlan 33. b. Armagh

Bernard Conlan 10, b. Liverpool

Annie Conlan 4, b. Liverpool

Francis Conlan 1, b. Liverpool

 

Edited 23 July , 2018 by Promenade

[Steven Broomfield]

As someone who watched the programme exceedingly rarely, I find this fascinating. I can't for one moment believe that experts such as Kate in other fields are treated any less shabbily so I struggle to understand how the BBC continue to enlist expert advice for free, and I equally struggle to understand quite why they continue to behave in such a shoddy way.

 

Presumably the 'researchers' they employ are all young and unversed in the ways of the world and fail to understand that there are certain ways of behaving in polite society, but as they probably only do a series each before either returning to school or going on to bigger and better things, this advice is never passed on.

[8055Bell]

Hi Kate,

 

Photo of 19th KLR Concert Party on Pg 20 of part I in Tom Cartman's Scrapbook.  One of many great images.

I you ask nicely, I imagine Bury Grammar School will be happy for you the share the image - unless you already have it!

 

Tim

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Steven Broomfield said:

As someone who watched the programme exceedingly rarely, I find this fascinating. I can't for one moment believe that experts such as Kate in other fields are treated any less shabbily so I struggle to understand how the BBC continue to enlist expert advice for free, and I equally struggle to understand quite why they continue to behave in such a shoddy way.

 

     I was interviewed by the Beeb in December and it was broadcast in January. The reporter who came to me was friendly, well-informed  and very helpful. But he was  very informative about how the bosses regard everything as just "product"- We are interested in an item on the Great War. The Beeb is not really concerned with what it is- it is just product-and all that matters is screen time and cost. I was happy enough to be interviewed and my brains picked (No sensible person would pay to do that anyway) 

    WDYTYA is an industry. It is very highly commercialised. Years ago, the Society of  Genealogists  fairs were just that- full of largely older people doing family history. Then the TV series arrived-and the last fair I exhibited it had the full gubbins that went on the back of a large audience to "target" sales at. My old friend, the genealogist of Ancestral Trails, Mark Herber and I were displaced to a poorer location by a stand  for.....Stena Stairlifts.

    WDYTYA do pay for a lot of background research- quite a lot of basic research is done to see if the celebs have anything to look at- many don't get full programmes but fall by the wayside. But the researchers are quite brutal= if they can get it for nowt, they do-if they have to pay, then they do so with good grace usually

Edited 23 July , 2018 by Guest

[Chris_Baker]

Kate, the "non-Paderewski" card as seen on screen does not show the damage as seen on the one you posted above. I guess it could be digitally cleaned up. How common are these cards?

 

PS the comment above about the professor covering this bit of the programme. Agree. She didn't know a lot of the "Battle of Lys", either!

 

Edited 23 July , 2018 by Chris_Baker

[ss002d6252]

The set of window shutters on the right has a white mark exactly where Kate's does - it looks to me more like that's a scratch on the picture rather than a physical element in the original (unless of course that mark was shown from the original picture that was taken ? )

Craig

Edited 23 July , 2018 by ss002d6252

[Steven Broomfield]

It seems to happen to the best of us: I have just discovered that the entire afternoon (plus prior research and note-reading) I put into recording something for Heir Hunters has ended up on the cutting-room floor.

[Jim Clay]

39 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

It seems to happen to the best of us: I have just discovered that the entire afternoon (plus prior research and note-reading) I put into recording something for Heir Hunters has ended up on the cutting-room floor.

Yikes!  I've been watching every programme with bated breath, just waiting to see Mr B!  Hopes dashed!  Blimey, etc.

 

Oh, and I'm appalled at the way the production company treated Kate.  Shocked.

Edited 23 July , 2018 by Jim Clay

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Steven Broomfield said:

It seems to happen to the best of us: I have just discovered that the entire afternoon (plus prior research and note-reading) I put into recording something for Heir Hunters has ended up on the cutting-room floor.

 

    Phew!!  What a relief-  You still have time to name me as your sole heir then?

[MBrockway]

5 hours ago, 8055Bell said:

Hi Kate,

 

Photo of 19th KLR Concert Party on Pg 20 of part I in Tom Cartman's Scrapbook.  One of many great images.

I you ask nicely, I imagine Bury Grammar School will be happy for you the share the image - unless you already have it!

 

Tim

Same image ... and source ... as Mark Hone's post in the main Liverpool Pals concert parties topic here:

 

[IPT]

3 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

something for Heir Hunters has ended up on the cutting-room floor.

 

Barberous.

[MBrockway]

We should perhaps remember that while the BBC definitely now focusses more on 'product' than on quality, this programme is the fruit of Wall To Wall Media Ltd not an in-house production from Auntie herself. 

 

[MBrockway]

3 hours ago, Jim Clay said:

Yikes!  I've been watching every programme with bated breath, just waiting to see Mr B!  Hopes dashed!  Blimey, etc.

 

 

His memorable appearance in Mastermind October 2013 will live long in my memory - particularly the marvellous tartan hose socks

 

Is that really five years ago already!!

 

Mark

 

[Steven Broomfield]

Appearances

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

Appearances

 

    You mean you could stand John Humphreys for a second time?

[Steven Broomfield]

More a case of him putting up with me.

[MBrockway]

4 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

Appearances

 

I stand corrected of course ... but did the socks appear in all the rounds too?

[Steven Broomfield]

No. Something more restrained on the first go.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

No. Something more restrained on the first go.

 

   Oh God-not the fluorescent London Scottish kilt?

[Kate Wills]

On 23/07/2018 at 13:55, Chris_Baker said:

Kate, the "non-Paderewski" card as seen on screen does not show the damage as seen on the one you posted above. I guess it could be digitally cleaned up. How common are these cards?

 

PS the comment above about the professor covering this bit of the programme. Agree. She didn't know a lot of the "Battle of Lys", either!

As I said before Chris, they can be found, but you cannot conjure one up at a few weeks notice. Having asked if I knew of any available cards "for the family" I pointed them towards a postcard dealer who specialises in military cards who had one. When I saw him a fortnight ago, that card was still in his stock. Maybe they had a big stroke of luck.

 

In short, I'm prepared to concede the banner card isn't mine (though I'm going to put it under further scrutiny) but I do know that the Paderweski card is mine, and am able to prove it. Lest it sound like sour grapes, I'm finding copies of my card all over the net, including the Daily Mail (and doubtless the pages of the other nationals and assorted local papers), Chortle, and sundry other sites, all without my permission or credits..

Edited 24 July , 2018 by Kate Wills

[Kate Wills]

On 23/07/2018 at 11:26, Promenade said:

I too was approached (via a proxy) in August 2017 by the company 'researching' McKillop. ... I consulted a colleague who also has an interest in the Regt he said that he also had been consulted - I started to think how many hares had they set running! I did not know Steve Nulty had also been approached....Was disappointed to see the 'talking heads' presumably an academic title means invariably that the speaker is an expert on a subject. Even though I would have declined it would have been nice to have been asked to appear ... In summary I would not cooperate with WDYTYA researchers again UNLESS the input provided by WW1 researchers is acknowledged in the final credits.

 

and I didn't know Stephen Nulty had been approached either. I did know you had been helping them, as your name appeared against a section of a timeline they sent to me. I can appreciate the need to keep everything under wraps ahead of unveiling the completed series, but our pooled experiences seem to imply a policy of divide and rule.

 

By the way, initial contact from Wall to Wall TV arrived via a GWF private message. A situation such as this is quite likely to happen again as WW1 is such a rich field for WDYTYA, and the forum gives them equally rich pickings.

Edited 25 July , 2018 by Kate Wills

[Kate Wills]

On 23/07/2018 at 12:01, Steven Broomfield said:

Presumably the 'researchers' they employ are all young and unversed in the ways of the world and fail to understand that there are certain ways of behaving in polite society, but as they probably only do a series each before either returning to school or going on to bigger and better things, this advice is never passed on.

Yes, that's a fair assessment. I was handed from someone who seemed to have a fair knowledge, to someone who, though being very nice and polite, seemed amazed that people actually collected old postcards, and he didn't even know the difference between a regiment and a battalion. I know researchers cannot have an initimate knowledge of all aspects of history, but this is routine stuff for someone working on a programme in which wars and military matters feature regularly.

[Kate Wills]

On 23/07/2018 at 13:10, 8055Bell said:

Photo of 19th KLR Concert Party on Pg 20 of part I in Tom Cartman's Scrapbook.  One of many great images.

I you ask nicely, I imagine Bury Grammar School will be happy for you the share the image - unless you already have it!

Hi Tim,

 

Thankyou for asking, but permission isn't mine to give. Mark Hone will be the man to ask.

[MBrockway]

5 hours ago, Kate Wills said:

As I said before Chris, they can be found, but you cannot conjure one up at a few weeks notice. Having asked if I knew of any available cards "for the family" I pointed them towards a postcard dealer who specialises in military cards who had one. When I saw him a fortnight ago, that card was still in his stock. Maybe they had a big stroke of luck.

 

In short, I'm prepared to concede the banner card isn't mine (though I'm going to put it under further scrutiny) but I do know that the Paderweski card is mine, and am able to prove it. Lest it sound like sour grapes, I'm finding copies of my card all over the net, including the Daily Mail (and doubtless the pages of the other nationals and assorted local papers), Chortle, and sundry other sites, all without my permission or credits..

 

Is not the banner card ...

 

reproduced as a plate in the Brigade History?

 

It would be a simple matter to scan this, print it onto card, 'age' it and thus convert it into a passable 'prop' for the programme.

 

Mark

 

UPDATE:Yes - it is ...

 

Edited 24 July , 2018 by MBrockway