Now identified: The "Rev'd J. Boyan" = The Rev'd John Morgan, Chaplain to the Forces

[nigelcave]

It is possible that the archives/libraries of your local diocese might have copies (but bear in mind that there have been many dioceses created post WWI and these would be most unlikely to have year books prior to their creation). The metropolitan dioceses of the time (i.e. those with Archbishops) might be your best bet - i.e. Liverpool, Birmingham, Cardiff (I think by 1914) and Westminster: Southwark was a diocese at the time and its metropolitan was Westminster. The National Catholic Library is now housed as part of Durham University Library and is probably to be found at Ushaw. It is probable that the copyright libraries have copies. It is possible that the Westminster Archives has a catalogue of RC chaplains (England and Wales - Scotland had/has its own hierarchy, as does the Island of Ireland).

 

Otherwise it is possibly a matter of the Army List; I am not sure how officiating chaplains (of which there were numerous during the war, mainly in the UK - just think of the huge number of camps, depots, military hospitals etc, well beyond the capacity of the AChD) actually appeared in the list, if at all. Another option, just to muddle the issue, is that you man might have been a chaplain of one of the Dominions: he would have been granted faculties by Westminster to perform liturgical functions (such as a funeral). 

 

The Catholic Who's Who was a different publication to the Year Book.

 

Now take two aspirin and go to bed!

Edited 30 May , 2018 by nigelcave

[daggers]

Tracing the baptisms of the Warburton family, probably at Kimbolton if CofE, might give a clue to the denomination of the chaplain, which would narrow the field.  Anyone near Hereford, where records are probably kept?  Sadly nothing found online.

D

[keithmroberts]

My impression is that most TCF's were given an army rank, certainly as the war progressed that seemed to be the case. I might be able to check the army lists  in the Portsmouth archives late today or in the next day or two. They have a pretty good set. if the term Chaplain to the Forces is used correctly then the cleric should hold an official appointment. I'm not sure how this worked for permanent chaplains, or those attached locally in the UK. Attached a clip from inside the file of a catholic TCF, (researched because he later became an Anglican priest and served as a curate in the Portsea Parish.  Source: Image is from a page in the file of that man in the UK National Archives.

[Guest]

 

   Just to muddy the waters even more-   Newspaper spelling errors are a nightmare but, curiously, although surname is often wrong, the first initial is usually right. Now, as spelling can give a range  of potential error, so can reception of the spoken word which is then written As my good old tutor at uni. had the same surname, then on the basis of pronunciation I put up also for consideration:

   (  The various bits in the records for Warburton give differeng dates of death-12 or 13th,which is not unusual- 53rd Training Bn and 12th Cheshires might narrow the range. If there was no local connection to Leominster by way of clergy, then perhaps have a look at Chaplains attached to The Cheshire Regiment for a likely near-miss)

Captain (Chaplain) Joseph BULLEN. Army Chaplain's Department.

War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, personal files (alphabetical). Captain (Chaplain) Joseph BULLEN. Army Chaplain's Department.

Held by:	The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Date:	1917 - 1928
Reference:	WO 374/10688
Subjects:	Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Operations, battles and campaigns

[keithmroberts]

There seems to be no easy route. having been visited by the postman with that (not WW! related), for which I was waiting I made my way to the local archives and history centre where I consulted the Army List. I checked December 1917 and February 1918.  There was no Boyan serving as any form of Chaplain to the Forces.I haven't used the list often or I would have known that there was a section for chaplaincy, listing both permanent and temporary chaplains, and chaplains of all denominations.  The nearest that I could find, still only a possibility, was a Roman Catholic chaplain Rev J F Bowen, with seniority only from 12 November 1917. There was also a Rev J C Bowen attached to Canadian forces from April 1916.

 

That seemingly leaves us with the only near certainty being that BOYAN  is incorrect. I regret now that I didn't check another copy of the army list maybe for a month or two later just to be sure that an entry had not been delayed.

 

I wonder if local newspapers covering Leominster might be worth checking for a report of the funeral?

 

Keith

 

 

[Matlock1418]

On 30/05/2018 at 10:41, daggers said:

baptisms of the Warburton family

Still looking out for these and/or their marriages and/or deaths for their religion

 

On 30/05/2018 at 10:14, nigelcave said:

The National Catholic Library is now housed as part of Durham University Library and is probably to be found at Ushaw

Aspirin and kip later ... Thanks - Have checked today with Ushaw college by phone but they too cannot find a Boyan, or any really close, in their directories - but perhaps he wouldn't have been recorded if in military harness ???  They seems to suggest the directories were for civilians ??

 

reception of the spoken word which is then written

Thanks - you are right - the ear can make the brain / hand do funny things.

So to yet other possible surname options ... Casting around some more I came across:

Rev. John Francis Dolan, A.C.D., attd. 15th Bn., Ches. R. - award of M.C. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31092/supplement/25 

Cheshire Regiment - I wonder ... ?

This looks like him too: Chaplain John Francis DOLAN  =  WO 374/20150

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C69028

Possibly worth a peek sometime I guess.  I don't know how, even if we find him, how we link to Leominster unless we find the right Service Papers

A later LG appears to refer to him  "The undermentioned temp. Chaplns. to the Forces, 4th Cl., to be temp. Chaplns. to the Forces, 3rd Cl. (without increase of pay or allowances), whilst actg. as Senior Chaplns. to the Forces (non C. of E.) of ' Divs.: — The Revs. ... 27th Nov. 1917 ... J. F. Dolan." https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30458/supplement/345  [LG Was quickly cancelled and it appears he had to wait until later in another 1918 LG before 3rd Class - no increase in pay apparently, until 1919 based on another LG!]  

Main point though seems this chap was "(non C. of E.)" = R.C. ???

 

Still no closer without Warburton's and/or his family's religion, still looking, but other than seeming to have exhausted Anglican have to think it might be RC ... could it be ??  The hunt goes on ...

And,

53rd Battalion at Kinmel Park - apparently part of 14th Reserve Brigade - does that help anyone?

 

On 30/05/2018 at 16:40, keithmroberts said:

I checked December 1917 and February 1918.  There was no Boyan serving as any form of Chaplain to the Forces.

 

On 30/05/2018 at 16:40, keithmroberts said:

I wonder if local newspapers covering Leominster might be worth checking for a report of the funeral?

Thanks very much for your searches and suggestions.

See also above.

I have limited access to newspapers but have tried a basic search - didn't spot anything, but that means little with my sparse resources

[keithmroberts]

Kinmel Park is at least in a location within range of Chester which might have been the nearest large hospital?, but it looks as if Warburton had moved from The Cheshires to the RE.

Can anyone identify his RE unit from the info in Soldiers  Effects. That might help to locate the chap and maybe add a mite of detail.

 

 The MC would obviously be for services overseas but might not preclude time in the UK.

 

Edited to cancel another red herring.

 

[Guest]

Dolan looks a very strong candidate indeed. I may get to see his officer file in the next few days

 

Chaplain John Francis DOLAN. Army Chaplain's Department.

War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, personal files (alphabetical). Chaplain John Francis DOLAN. Army Chaplain's Department.

Held by:	The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Date:	1915 - 1921
Reference:	WO 374/20150
Subjects:	Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Operations, battles and campaigns

[Matlock1418]

On 30/05/2018 at 19:58, keithmroberts said:

Kinmel Park is at least in a location within range of Chester which might have been the nearest large hospital?, but it looks as if Warburton had moved from The Cheshires to the RE.

 

I presume you are inferring Chester [and Cheshire R's Depot] might be where a chaplain might be based - but would he travel to Leominster?

I don't know how far they were prepared to travel - given the scale of home service mortality etc. would be likely they would have been on the road a lot.  Maybe we will find out.

Burial record for Warburton says Kinmel Park Mil Hosp. and his 53rd Bn [CWGC #23986] was 12th Bn Cheshire Regt. originally  - which would match with #TR4/23986 [SDGW].

TLLT says 53rd was a Young Soldier Bn so seems little time of much of a military career.

He was only 18 at death.

?? RE?? Wondering where you found that - would be a new development.

 

Dolan looks a very strong candidate indeed. I may get to see his officer file in the next few days

 

Would be much obliged if you could spare a mo.  Thanks  :-)

[keithmroberts]

An apology for an error on my part. I looked at the Soldiers Effects register for John Thomas Warburton, who died in the Chester Infirmary, but a year earlier. The entry in that register for the Feb 1918 man describes him as Thomas John Warburton and I disregarded that, so Kinmel it is, and references to the Royal Engineers  as well as Chester are completely incorrect.

 

Are you clear from your other checks whether he was John Thomas as in the funeral record, or Thomas John as in the Effects register?  Not that that one matters greatly unless a family religious link can be found.

 

Rev J F Dolan has to be a serious possibility, although the battalion that he was attached to appears to have been in France from 1916 until the end of hostilities. However it has to be possible that he returned to a UK posting  after illness or injury and found himself at Kinmel. or that he  some other as yet unidentified chaplain, may have been attached to barracks or hospitals nearer to Leominster. The file on Rev Dolan might help by at least confirming any posting.

 

Sorry to have picked up the wrong casualty, my only excuse is the error in his forenames shown in one or other record.

 

Keith

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, keithmroberts said:

An apology for an error on my part. I looked at the Soldiers Effects register for John Thomas Warburton, who died in the Chester Infirmary, but a year earlier. The entry in that register for the Feb 1918 man describes him as Thomas John Warburton and I disregarded that, so Kinmel it is, and references to the Royal Engineers  as well as Chester are completely incorrect.

 

Are you clear from your other checks whether he was John Thomas as in the funeral record, or Thomas John as in the Effects register?  Not that that one matters greatly unless a family religious link can be found.

 

Rev J F Dolan has to be a serious possibility, although the battalion that he was attached to appears to have been in France from 1916 until the end of hostilities. However it has to be possible that he returned to a UK posting  after illness or injury and found himself at Kinmel. or that he  some other as yet unidentified chaplain, may have been attached to barracks or hospitals nearer to Leominster. The file on Rev Dolan might help by at least confirming any posting.

 

Sorry to have picked up the wrong casualty, my only excuse is the error in his forenames shown in one or other record.

 

Keith

 

    As John Wayne says in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon"-"Don't apologise,Son-sign of weakness".  The matter was confused  by some references to him only as Thomas or T.

[Matlock1418]

On 30/05/2018 at 22:12, keithmroberts said:

An apology for an error on my part.

It happens - and far to often in my efforts!

No worries.

My Dad said it was the sign of a man, who can admit such things! 

Now "Drink yer milk and get back on yor 'orse" [sic]

;-)

Are you clear from your other checks whether he was John Thomas as in the funeral record

Appears in birth and 1901 and 1911 Censuses [or so I would believe - I'm doubting myself] - it's on his grave too.

Think I'm pretty / very sure - but CWGC has him as plain "T" at the moment [but they really can't explain why]

I've also recall that I have seen him described somewhere as "Thomas John" before - I suspect it may be from the same place you saw it but I've not seen the **** myself [is it really called that? - shame on somebody!] or perhaps SDGW ??? [I'll admit I just can't recall where at present].

Perhaps in life he used  / was known as Thomas more than John ???

I wonder if you have seen the real thing, rather than a transcription, if you could possibly add an image of the above please. [for avoidance of doubt - the document ;-)]

 

Edit - Have been auto-moderated the **** was an acronym for Army Register of Soldiers' Effects !! - that'll teach me to try some military humour.  

[keithmroberts]

GWF Rules forbid posting images  from Ancestry for other members and I might have to suspend myself  if I add the image , but here is a link  https://goo.gl/mct2eS

 

If you have access to Ancestry, just use the link, or alternatively  search/card catalogue/effects Thomas John Warburton

 

Keith

 

 

[Matlock1418]

11 minutes ago, keithmroberts said:

I might have to suspend myself

 

Don't want that!

Thanks.

 

Now two more aspirins and I'm off to bed [if you've read the thread you'll know the source]

;-)

.

[Dragoon]

This is from the Belfast news letter dated 28th May 1914, its not Military related, but its the closest name i could get on the newspaper archives, Reverend Joseph Boylan.

Probably nothing to do with it, but as i said, the closest i could get.

 

Chris

 

[daggers]

The Soldiers' Effects entry makes the common error of 'KIMNEL'.  Wiki tells us that the military hospital had 800+ beds - might there have been a chaplain attached?  It seems to me more likely that the 'home' burial would be peformed by someone more locally based.

D

Edited 31 May , 2018 by daggers
typo

[nigelcave]

On 30/05/2018 at 18:38, Matlock1418 said:

Still looking out for these and/or their marriages and/or deaths for their religion

 

Thanks - Have checked today with Ushaw college by phone but they too cannot find a Boyan, or any really close, in their directories - but perhaps he wouldn't have been recorded if in military harness ???  They seems to suggest the directories were for civilians ??

 

 

True - but the Catholic Year Book (or equivalent) directory should tell you at least if there was a priest of that name and, if so, to which diocese or religious congregation he belonged. From these you should be able to find out whether or not he served as a chaplain - tho' it would not follow that such records would show where and with whom he served.

[Honora]

On 27/05/2018 at 14:16, Matlock1418 said:

Seeking more details of the above: forename(s), wartime & other service, personal details etc. please. 

Source material is a burial record in February 1918 in Leominster, Herefordshire, in which he performed the ceremony - the entry is in very clear handwriting, as above.

Have already tried/searched: Museum of Army Chaplaincy, Officers' Service Records (TNA) and Medal cards - to no avail. ???

And tried a number of possible surname name variants ???

Google, etc. ???

Not much I know, but from smaller acorns GWF has been known to grow large oaks!

Thanks, in hope ...

 

Edit: been thinking, possibly Boyne ???  Mis-heard / mis-recorded?

Dear Matlock

To keep this brief - I have just quickly glanced through this long chain:

 

I assume the church in question is St Ethelbert, Leominster?   

 

I will be able to check the relevant National Catholic Directories on Monday. These give the names and addresses of all priests in Great Britain, and I hope to find your man.

 

I am however able to say at this point, that there were many parish priests who served as  temporary RC army chaplains in army camps throughout the country. 

 

I can also pass your query to someone i know that has made a speciality of researching WW1 RC chaplains. 

 

Honora

 

 

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Honora said:

I assume the church in question is St Ethelbert, Leominster?   

 

I will be able to check the relevant National Catholic Directories on Monday

 

The burial was in a non-/multi-denominational Borough cemetery

Casualty was born ? baptised ? in Kimbolton (near Leominster) which has an Anglican church - St. James

Hmm...?

Thanks

[Matlock1418]

Thanks to one and all for your continued thoughts.

 

Still don't know the Rev'd Boyan's faith or made a link to Leominster in February 1918.

 

But here is a big suggestion offered to me yesterday [through non-GWF channels - with many thanks] for you to consider, if you would please ...

The Rev'd John Christian Albert BOHN, CF

Nice homophone and yet having looked at him he may also be another big red-herring, but ...

 

This is what I think I have found of him so far:

For starters: He was a Congregationalist [and Non-Conformist Chaplain] 

• Born Marylebone, London - 1879 [E&W Births]
• Possibly a "Post Office Telegraph Learner in the Central Office, London" - 1894 [LG - same full names]
• West Ham, Essex [Married]
• Sittingbourne, Kent - 1910 [daughter born] and 1911 [Census]
• Teignmouth, Devon - Rev. - various dates pre-war, 1914 etc. [various newspapers and other reports - there are many spanning a wide range of dates - he appears to have been a bit of a speaker]
• Commissioned Chaplain 4th Cl - 28 June 1915 [LG]
• Entered France - 19.11.15 [MIC]
• France - 15 July 1917 [Letter from a London Regiment, 15th Bn, soldier - N.C. Padre - "was in good form and gave a very helpful address" & "for the first time learned his name. Rev. J.C.A. Bohn C.F late of Tynmouth". [sic] "He used to be a Civil Servant before going to New College. He studied at King's School"]
• France/Belgium - 1918 [Biography memorial for an Australian Pioneer, 5th Bn, soldier [died 14 Sept. 1917] - "was buried by a Captain JCAB of the 47th Division" (which I believe was a London Division). Burial - in Huts Cemetery, Belgium]
• London - 1919 [Unveiled a war memorial in Baptist Church, Catford]
• Egypt - probably c.8.1922 [MIC - I think the MIC "EEF" reference relates to when he applied for his medals in 1922, and probably is not wartime service] and 1923 [passenger list]
• To 1934 - Chaplain [retires as Cl 4 or Cl 3 - 2 x LG]
• 1939 - off Reserve of Officers due to age. [LG]
• Brighton - 1947 [E&W Deaths]

The only truly military record I could find was his MIC - nothing else showing at TNA

I presume that because he served beyond 1920 his Officer's Service Papers are still with the MOD.

 

Nothing at the Museum of Army Chaplaincy. Looked and spoke to them.

 

I am told today Congregationalist records are sparse & scattered and their churches later became United Methodist Churches United Reformed Church [see post 71 below: Thanks daggers - my error when typing - I'm not not up much on these organisations] which won't make tracking down any easier. 

Mention was also been made of a/the "United Board" [don't know what that is but a quick Google suggests might be for Baptists and other Non-Conformists] - ???

 

London, Essex, Kent, Devon, France/Belgium, London, Egypt, ... & Brighton - All seems to point to other than Leominster in 1918 but I guess not totally ruled out ... can anyone find more info on the Rev'd/Capt. Bohn and a possible link to Herefordshire area??

 

Really got my hopes up as seemed such a nice sounding name, but now feeling somewhat deflated [not blaming anyone!]

 

Grasping at straws ... but still in hope of finding the Rev'd "Boyan", of whatever religion.

Edited 1 June , 2018 by Matlock1418
correction and addition

[daggers]

Most Congregationalist churches joined the United Reformed Church, not Methodist.

D

[keithmroberts]

I'm pinning some faith in Honora. The only Boyan individuals I have traced have been connected with the catholic faith, I'm still puzzled however by the absence of an entry in the long number file that I downloaded from kew. If she finds a candidate we might be there. A Chaplain's presence would be explained by one of three factors: based at a hospital local to Leominster, attached to the camp at Kinmel and travelled with the body to conduct the funeral, or, and least likely, at home on leave from an overseas posting.

 

Keith

[kenf48]

There is as Keith previously posted a  John B Boyan, Clerk in Holy Orders at Ampleforth College in the 1939 Register.

He is also in a 1978 telephone directory at St Peters Chester which wikipedia says is Anglican(?)

He died 2nd quarter 1997.

 

Born on the 10th March 1910 he was clearly not conducting funerals in the Great War but I wonder if he was a relative of the man we are seeking?

 

In March 1942 he  conducted the funeral mass  for his father Surgeon-Captain John Boyan R.N.(Retd).  The newspaper account noted the two brothers of the late Capt Boyan were too ill to attend.  

 

Unfortunately had no luck so far in tracing the brothers, but was one in Holy Orders?  Also can't find John Boyan who qualified in 1896 at Barts so born around 1870 in the census to name his brothers I guess he has a naval record which may or may not help.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 June , 2018 by kenf48

[Guest]

This may need a call for help from whichever Local Studies Library covers Leominster. There should be an account of the funeral service in the local newspaper, "Leominster News". This may be the source of the original citation of Boyan anyway. Unfortunately, BL has the volume as "Npot to be produced"- a common fate for the 1918 newspapers it holds, due to paper restrictions meaning newsprint was of much poorer quality. Alas, they also do not have amicrofil copy available (that is despite their cataloge saying that there is). Thus a friendly call to the Leominster area may be in order.

Edited 2 June , 2018 by Guest

[kenf48]

This may need a call for help from whichever Local Studies Library covers Leominster. There should be an account of the funeral service in the local newspaper, "Leominster News". This may be the source of the original citation of Boyan anyway.

 

Accepting a visit to the Local Archive may be worthwhile,  the original citation appears not to be a newspaper but the burial record (post 14).  As noted while the clerk may have misheard one assumes it was a contemporaneous record.

 

Ken