mancpal Posted 7 March , 2018 Share Posted 7 March , 2018 I am hoping that someone could help me by looking up the DCM citation from the London Gazette for the above soldier (service number 18914). His family have much information about him but are missing the citation. I have tried searching the gazette but I don’t appear to know what I’m doing ! thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 7 March , 2018 Share Posted 7 March , 2018 Award - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30450/supplement/60/data.pdf Citation https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30636/supplement/4666/data.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2018 IPT, thats great stuff, thanks. I think his service number indicates he may have been an original Salford Pal but I’ll have to check when I get home. thanks again. simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 7 March , 2018 Share Posted 7 March , 2018 For his conduct from February to September 1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2018 Thanks Harry, i wonder who put the dates down which doesn’t show on IPTs link? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 7 March , 2018 Share Posted 7 March , 2018 Hi Simon, The image that HarryBrook posted is from the DCM Registers held by the National Archives. They were originally created by the War Office, so I guess that the answer to your question is probably a (unknown) admin officer who had the responsibility for the creation and maintenance of the registers. Your chap appears on p294/396 of part 1 of this free download. The benefit of looking at citations in the DSO/MC/DCM registers at the National Archives, rather than just what was published in the London Gazette is that they often contain 'pencilled in' information showing a specific date and place which can be cross referenced against war diaries, and sometimes have censored out info (such as the unit) that didn't make it in to the publically published version. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2018 Thanks Chris, i understood your response far more clearly than I understand almost anything technological , specifically The London Gazette though ICRC comes a close second. I’m due to see Sgt Haynes grandson in the next few days and I’m sure he’ll be delighted with all the above information. Thanks again Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 8 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 8 March , 2018 23 hours ago, mancpal said: I think his service number indicates he may have been an original Salford Pal but I’ll have to check when I get home. Yes indeed, he was an original pal in the 3rd Salford Pals (19th Service Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers), which converted to a Pioneer Battalion on 29th July 1916. He originally joined 16th Platoon in D Company of that Battalion as a Private - the Salford Brigade Roll of Honour contains a photograph (attached) of that Platoon so he will be somewhere in it - perhaps his family can pick him out if they have other photographs of him. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 8 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 8 March , 2018 His award of the DCM is also recorded in 19th Bn LF War Diary on 4th January 1918. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 8 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2018 (edited) Russ , thanks so much for your interest and contribution. If I don’t see Fredericks grandson tomorrow it’ll be sometime next week. I know the family have done some family genealogy but I’m uncertain as to how much relates to WW1 history. Im reasonably sure they won’t have seen the war diary entry or perhaps even the photo. I randomly picked out the following words from your previous post :- Salford and Roll of Honour. I recently began a topic regarding a commercial artist called John McNeill who was my great uncle. He painted the roll of honour that used to hang in the old Salford Town Hall (Bexley Square), my uncle posed as the soldier and sailor featured in each bottom corner using his Dads walking cane in place of a rifle. I still own the cane. I’ll post again on this topic when I’ve spoken to my mate and may need further assistance. Thanks again, Simon Edited 8 March , 2018 by mancpal Failed to spell my own name correctly, must be bedtime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 13 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2018 Russ, a quick question about the photo. We’re these platoon shots taken prior to embarkation overseas? Im assuming they are like the Manchester Pals ones from the Book of Honour.. If they are early shots (1915 I’d guess) then it won’t be straightforward to identify him solely from his stripes as he may only have been a private at that stage Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 13 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 March , 2018 Simon The photo was most certainly taken prior to the 19th Bn LF going overseas. I think it was taken (along with photos of all the other units in the Salford Brigade) in early/mid 1915 whilst the units of the Brigade were training in Conway, North Wales. 18914 F J Haynes is recorded as a private in the Roll (see attached list) so he would not have had any stripes at this time in his service when the photo was taken. As mentioned, I guess it will only be possible to identify him if the family have contemporary photos with which to compare. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 13 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2018 Thanks Russ, much as I suspected. i assume the camp in Conwy was Morfa Camp, if so I stay on the site regularly in our caravan. i passed on all the above to my mate today, Much of it he hadn’t seen before which makes me wonder if anyone knows where else to look for anything else? ive seen on another thread a source which contains photographs of individual headstones, could anyone suggest a link I can search (I have the grave details). thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 13 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 March , 2018 8 minutes ago, mancpal said: ive seen on another thread a source which contains photographs of individual headstones, could anyone suggest a link I can search (I have the grave details). thanks It might be this website: https://www.twgpp.org/ Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 13 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 March , 2018 17 minutes ago, mancpal said: i passed on all the above to my mate today, Much of it he hadn’t seen before which makes me wonder if anyone knows where else to look for anything else? How much do you have already? For example, I assume you already know that he unfortunately died (cerebral haemorrhage). Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 14 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2018 In answer to the question I don’t no exactly what they have got as yet. When I showed my friend all the above he was quite surprised that anything had been discovered except the CWGC page commemorating Sgt Haynes. i hinted above that the research done so far has been more about their family tree in general rather than specifics about military service. i no longer have any subscriptions so I’m hoping someone can provide sources which may lead to a service record (if in existence) or details regarding war gratuity or pensions etc. I did note the brain haemorrhage and wonder if this was just bad luck or perhaps the result of a previous bang on the head, probably never know that. thanks for your interest. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 14 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 14 March , 2018 (edited) Simon Can't find any service records for him - so it looks like it was destroyed (like many others). Can't find any record for him in the MH106 medical registers. Soldiers Died Great War has him born in Small Heath and enlisting in Salford. His Soldiers' Effect Record notes that he was awarded a War Gratuity (nett) of £16 10s and he also had a credit of £40 9s. All monies were paid to his widow Katie. One can predict an enlistment date based on his War Gratuity, Rank and Date of Death. This predicts March 1915, which is consistent with the fact he was an original member of the 19/LF which began to form in Jan 1915. Service papers for 18908 and 18919 reveal enlistment dates of 24th and 25th April 1915 respectively. The WO Casualty List records his death under "Died" in the 16/04/1918 edition - see image. The only other source I can think of is the Pension Card Records - these are not yet digitised but I think you can pay for a look-up via the WFA. Regards Russ Edited 14 March , 2018 by RussT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 14 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 14 March , 2018 Simon Perhaps you have this info already - but just to note that if your friend has an interest in the general background to the forming and the service of the Salford Pals, then I can recommend the following book (it contains the list (page 280 in my edition) I posted in post #12): Salford Pals: 15th, 16th, 19th & 20th Battalions Lancashire Fusiliers - A History of the Salford Brigade by Michael Stedman. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 15 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2018 Russ, thanks once again. I have recommended the book already, mysteriously I can’t lay my hands on my copy. As a slight aside, I’m mentioned in the acknowledgments of Stedmans Manchester Pals book having loaned some research regarding both my grandads. We met in the now defunct Punch Bowl on Chapel St, Salford, opposite Trinity Church . thanks again Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 28 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2018 Could anybody tell me how to find out if Sergt Haynes is commemorated on any UK war memorial. I’d imagine if at all Manchester/Salford would be the likeliest starting point. thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr U Posted 15 April Share Posted 15 April Simon, (mancpal) please contact me. I am the Great Grandson of FJ Haynes DCM, 3rd Salford Pals. I have much info regarding my Great Grandfather. My Great Grandfather had no Grand children alive in 2018 when you were doing your research for your friend. I am the custodian of all information and artifacts for the family and a veteran of 35 years military service. I would like to assist you in your endeavors and am keen to liaise with your friend regarding my Great Grandfather and his family link. Very best regards. Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 15 April Admin Share Posted 15 April Welcome to the forum Roger This tag should alert @mancpal to your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr U Posted 15 April Share Posted 15 April Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 15 April Author Share Posted 15 April Roger, I’m afraid I can’t help. I normally have a clear memory of my previous searches but receiving your message today was a surprise as I have no memory of this thread and even more oddly, no memory of who asked me the initial question. I have a bulging folder of rough notes which I’ve accumulated over many years which I’ll look through but I’m not hopeful I’m afraid. Should I find or remember any thing I will contact you with. I’m sorry I can’t help further. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 April Admin Share Posted 15 April 3 hours ago, Mr U said: I am the Great Grandson of FJ Haynes DCM, 3rd Salford Pals. Welcome to the Forum Roger I do remember contributing to this thread !! Did you manage to locate him on the Platoon photograph I posted above? Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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