MaxD Posted 8 February , 2018 Share Posted 8 February , 2018 In the 1881 search for John Hy Dickinson wife Susannah Oxford. In 1891 search Frederick H Ralls Oxford. Pity about the medals mix up, blame the passage of time. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 8 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2018 3 minutes ago, MaxD said: In the 1881 search for John Hy Dickinson wife Susannah Oxford. In 1891 search Frederick H Ralls Oxford. Pity about the medals mix up, blame the passage of time. Max Thanks Max, as you wrote that - I finally found it! Beam Hall, Western Street. Must be related on the mothers side as noted "sister in law" on the census information. Shame on the medals - not exactly a full set, but suppose thats part of the history. All 4 will look good together, even if they do have several names on !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 8 February , 2018 Share Posted 8 February , 2018 Hi, 2 hours ago, MaxD said: The Dickinsons and the Ralls were related. In 1881 young Guy Dickinson is with his family in Headington Oxford, father JH Dickinson born Harrogate. In 1891 FH Ralls is living with the JH Dickinson family in Headington. There is a family tree on Ancestry. I haven't checked through it to see if it looks correct, but presuming that it is and that I've understood it properly, what you appear to get is: Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 8 February , 2018 Share Posted 8 February , 2018 That certainly accords with the 1891 where FH Ralls is entered as nephew to JH Dickinson making FH and Guy cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 8 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2018 Thanks so much Max and Chris That is correct as Adelaide was married to George Ralls (had 10 children!) Now get the link between families fully, so I have Frederick's cousins medal !! Will add to my tree on ancestry Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 8 February , 2018 Share Posted 8 February , 2018 Hi Tom, 3 minutes ago, tomralls said: so I have Frederick's cousins medal Have you picked up on Guy sadly not making it through? Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 8 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2018 50 minutes ago, clk said: Hi Tom, Have you picked up on Guy sadly not making it through? Regards Chris Hi Chris, I hadn’t actually - I’m still trying to work out the Canadian connection. But that must be why my family ended up with his medal - but still F H Ralls’ one is missing... Do you know what happened to him? i know F H Ralls was K.I.A age 30 thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 8 February , 2018 Share Posted 8 February , 2018 His next of kin was a Mr JW Dickinson at 6 Morton Street Oxford. He arrived in England in November 1915, went to France in April 1916 with the 27th Canadian Infantry and was killed in action on 16 November 1917. My post of a few hours ago. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 8 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2018 Thanks Max - mea culpa... ive read so much today my brain is fried - you did indeed say that earlier - thanks for reposting !! Much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 8 February , 2018 Share Posted 8 February , 2018 Looking again at his 1914 Star medal roll, it looks as if there was some mix up by the army also. There is a note that says the medal "was returned, sent to Reeds [don't know what that is] in place of above man's". There is what looks like a later note dated 6 January 1922 saying the medal was reissued. WST Ralls is on the line above him in the roll and the reference of the correspondence for WST and for the medal's return is the same. Not really worth trying after 100 years to determine who/why/where a cock up happened but the roll is clearly not straightforward. It is suggestive of some sort of initial cock up and mix up with his brother which led the family to send back FH's Star for some change and it was then re--issued. Recipe for it being somehow separated from the War and Victory medals and his MC. Glad you have the latter - one could argue that that one is the most important of the lot. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 9 February , 2018 Share Posted 9 February , 2018 Having said it isn't worth trying to puzzle out what is clearly an error or series of errors, now I am doing exactly that! The medal card for the brother WST Ralls who served alongside FH Ralls until he (WST) was wounded and invalided out in April 1917, has the note "Oic London Rec returns 1914 Star for amendment 9 7 19". WST received a Silver War Badge (SWB) which is recorded on his card but which may be the SWB incorrectly entered on FH's card that I remarked on earlier. Also puzzling is the note on FH's card saying that Oic 216 Infantry Brigade forwards application for 1914 Star from 2 Lt FH Ralls 7 12 17 then later notes an application for his medals from his brother 10 Dec 1921. 216 Inf Bde was a home service brigade which had no London Regiment units so what that was to do with FH - who knows. None of these jigsaw pieces fit together and (again) it is not worth going any further with it. I'd draw just the one conclusion that the issue of medals to the brothers Rall and the recording thereof was as far away from text book as you could get and that medals were flashing to and fro like a fiddler's elbow - no wonder one went missing! (Did I say that that the 1914 Star roll also got WST's initials wrong to start with!) Time to let this aspect drop I think although it will be very interesting to see what his record says should you decide to go ahead and get them. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 9 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2018 Wow - what a mix up all round! I'm sure the army will send me a 1914 star out immediately! The SWB - was this on FH's card? Sorry if you mentioned that before, but wasn't aware he was awarded one. Another mix up is that one of WST's medals has "W. S. F. Ralls" engraved around the perimeter... Not particularly good at this medal issuing were they! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 9 February , 2018 Share Posted 9 February , 2018 (edited) Hi, 15 hours ago, tomralls said: Do you know what happened to him? Guy Dickinson appears to have lost his life on 6th November 1917 when the battalion was involved in attacking Passchendaele. The war diary is available free from the Library and Archives Canada, and includes a report on operations covering the period 4th to 7th November. Regards Chris Edited 9 February , 2018 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 9 February , 2018 Share Posted 9 February , 2018 Sorry Tom, lack of precision on my part. I should have said FH's card has the initials SWB. They are up where a man's regiments are listed. I opined earlier that they were for the South Wales Borderers and there is the little symbol of an X with dots which means a change of regiments. Given that SWB also stands for Silver War Badge I got carried away with a vision of an office where a clerk was wresting with both Ralls' cards and someone rushing in saying "He's got an SWB!!!" and it being entered on both cards. Only his records will confirm whether he spent any time with the South Wales Borderers. Feel free to ignore this! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 10 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2018 Thanks for th tip Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 10 February , 2018 Share Posted 10 February , 2018 (edited) Guy Dickinson's service record is available to download at Library and Archives Canada: click here. His Circumstances of Death card shows his original burial place as 28.D.6.d.3.8 (on the back of the card) Phil Edit: Link to Grave Registration card added Edited 10 February , 2018 by Phil Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 11 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2018 Thanks very much Phil - really interesting Canadian authorities let you have the information... British make you pay for it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 14 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2018 Managed to get hold of a bar for his M.C. Doesn’t look too bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 14 February , 2018 Share Posted 14 February , 2018 Well done Tom - a full house (if you use WST's Star for FHR? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 14 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2018 Indeed, I had to cheat to get a full house (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 14 February , 2018 Share Posted 14 February , 2018 Nobody will ever know (except the zillions who read this forum!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 14 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2018 Hahaha 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 14 February , 2018 Share Posted 14 February , 2018 Dear Tom, Just for the record, to achieve the correct precedence, shift the silver British War Medal next to the 1914-15 Star, and the bronze Victory Medal to far right. See a comparable group, attached, but with an outstanding two Bars to the MC. Oh, and the rosette could be removed from the MC ribbon, too. Sorry to sound so pedantic... A great compliment to the GWF members who helped to complete the puzzle - well done to all of you! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomralls Posted 15 February , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2018 Morning Kim, Thanks for that - need to get them framed in the right order !! Everyoens knowledge is superb and recoeved with great thanks. On the rosette - I thought this would go on the ribbon bar as per photo below? I did place it on the main ribbon to avoid loss as it’s a little small!! Thanks again, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 16 February , 2018 Share Posted 16 February , 2018 Dear Tom, Yes, the small rosette belongs on the ribbon-bar. As far as having the large MC, 15 Trio group mounted, a four-medal group can be mounted with the ribbons side-by-side (i.e., not overlapping as in the MC two Bars example illustrated). I attach a four medal group example (which happens to have a Mention in Despatches oakleaf), for your information, which shows the ribbons side-by-side - in this case so-called Court mounting. Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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