Riflemen Walter Richard Bedingham 2nd Bn Kings Royal Rifle Corps

[Gardenerbill]

Thanks Mark,

The 1st Battalion location information came from the KRRC Association website here:

 

KRRC

[MBrockway]

3 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

Thanks Mark,

The 1st Battalion location information came from the KRRC Association website here:

 

KRRC

 

Crikey!

 

In fact since posting, I have found that same table as Appendix A on p.216 of Wallace's 2005 Brief History of the KRRC.

 

It is definitely incorrect: the 1904 and 1905 KRRC Chronicles give great detail of 1/KRRC's time in Malta and their relocation to Egypt (and Cyprus/Crete etc.) in Feb 1905.

 

Unfortunately I do not have the 1902 or 1903 KRRC Chronicles yet, so I cannot give you an exact date when the battalion got to Malta from South Africa.

 

The 1903 Hart's Annual Army List has 1st/60th stationed in Malta and states they embarked for there in 1902.

 

The 1902 volume has the battalion in South Africa.

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

 

 

[MBrockway]

On 26/10/2017 at 21:17, stiletto_33853 said:

On 18/12/1894 the barracks at Winchester were destroyed by fire, in the meantime the KRRC & RB were stationed in Gosport Barracks. 29/8/04 Winchester Barracks was re-opened.

 

Andy

 

I've just added material on the 1894 fire to the Rifle Depot, Winchester topic.

 

Mark

 

[Gardenerbill]

A few more questions:

During his 3 years service Walter committed the following offences:

1. Creating a disturbance in the Bk room about 10-5 p.m
2. Drunk on the Mole Marino about 11.25 p.m.
3. Absent off furlough tattoo 18th till 11.45 p.m. 19th
4. Unreadable
5. Abs from reveille till apprehended by the civil police at about 10.5 a.m. 26th Inst.
6. Absent from tattoo and Improperly dressed in town at 11.25 p.m.
7. Absent from tattoo 1.9.05 until apprehended by B.M.P. 12 mnght 2.9.05

What does tattoo mean in this context?
Is BMP battalion Military Police?
And is this number of offences, 7 in 3 years, fairly typical?

 

[Ron Clifton]

I think that BMP is probably British Military Police, as distinct from Maltese local civilian police. It could be Battalion MP, but these were usually referred to as RP or Regimental Police.

 

Tattoo was the time in the evening when soldiers should return to barracks, broadly comparable to a pub's "Last Orders" (though I stand ready to be corrected in this respect by any who have actually served in the Army). There was an appropriate bugle call, after which  came "Last Post".

 

Ron

[Gardenerbill]

I believe this form is to confirm that a soldier has completed basic training and can be posted to an active battalion.

 

 

Top line is Officer Commanding Rifle Depot

Third line approval for the Kings Royal Rifle Corps

What is entry on the second line?

[thetrenchrat22]

London Regt 

[tullybrone]

Hi,

 

I haven’t searched Ancestry/FMP for the original document but could it be part of a form used in relation to a pre War Territorial (London Regt) Soldier seeking to enlist (Special Enlistment?) in the regular forces (Rifle Brigade)?

 

It appears to convey the opinion of the OIC London Regt that the soldier is suitable for Rifle Brigade regular Amy enlistment.

 

Steve Y

 

Edited 30 October , 2017 by tullybrone

[Gardenerbill]

Thanks, but I am not convinced it's Regt and just realised that there is a copy of the page whcih is a little clearer:

 

[Gardenerbill]

It relates to pre war service and is dated 11-10-02 the date fits with completion of TF service the man Private Walter Bedingham attested 7th October 1902. Further down the page it lists 90 days of drill completed in the Militia.

Edited 30 October , 2017 by Gardenerbill

[thetrenchrat22]

3 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

Thanks, but I am not convinced it's Regt and just realised that there is a copy of the page whcih is a little clearer:

 

 

If it’s not Regt, then the word begins with ‘ R ‘ as the R in Royal are very similar 

 

The second letter is also similar to the ‘ e ‘ in rifle and pte 

 

[Gardenerbill]

Third letter doesn't look like a g though?

[Gardenerbill]

This is the full page, there is a faint date of enlistment in the Militia looks like 13th March, anyway I think it is transfer from one of the London Regimant Militia Units affiliated to the KRRC but which one. At the bottom it says place Barnet.

 

[MBrockway]

GB, got your mail.

 

The 2nd or Edmonton Royal Rifle Regiment of Middlesex Militia - one of the KRRC's militia battalions - had its Depot and HQ in Barnet.

 

From 1881 to 1908 this was known as 7/KRRC.  From 1908 it became 6/KRRC and was converted to a Special Reserve battalion.

 

It was fairly common for VF volunteers to enlist into the Special Reserve/militia battalions after 1-2 years of being in the VF.  Enough time to prove themselves to their unit commanders.  Likewise to go from Special Reserve/militia into the full time Regulars.

 

I'll scrutinise the docs carefully and get back to you on what I think it says!

 

Mark

Edited 30 October , 2017 by MBrockway

[MBrockway]

4 hours ago, tullybrone said:

Hi,

 

I haven’t searched Ancestry/FMP for the original document but could it be part of a form used in relation to a pre War Territorial (London Regt) Soldier seeking to enlist (Special Enlistment?) in the regular forces (Rifle Brigade)?

 

It appears to convey the opinion of the OIC London Regt that the soldier is suitable for Rifle Brigade regular Amy enlistment.

 

Steve Y

 

 

He actually had the sense to opt for the King's Royal Rifle Corps - the senior regiment - not those young upstarts in The Rifle Brigade (this one's for Andy )

 

Mark

[MBrockway]

4925 Rfn Walter BEDINGHAM was a Regular in 2/KRRC.  Enlisted in approximately Oct-Dec 1902 from his Service Number.

 

2/KRRC went out on 13 Aug 1914, but Walter has no 1914 Star entitlement, but he is on the Victory & War Medal rolls, so he did not join the battalion overseas until after end 1915.

 

I'll continue to investigate.

 

Do you have a date for the form above?

 

Mark

 

[Edit: the above was all written before the topics were merged and when I was unaware other Pals had already posted most of this information!    ]

 

Edited 31 October , 2017 by MBrockway

[Gardenerbill]

Thanks Mark, the form is dated 11-10-02 I am off line now this is from my mobile phone I will catch up in the morning.

[MBrockway]

59 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

4925 Rfn Walter BEDINGHAM was a Regular in 2/KRRC.  Enlisted in approximately Oct-Dec 1902 from his Service Number.

 

2/KRRC went out on 13 Aug 1914, but Walter has no 1914 Star entitlement, but he is on the Victory & War Medal rolls, so he did not join the battalion overseas until after end 1915.

 

Mark

 

 

Walter has no Star mentioned on his BW&VM MIC, but he is in fact on the 1914 Star Roll with Disembarkation Date 13 Aug 1914 and is marked Accepted as Died 14 Sep 1914.

 

Edited 30 October , 2017 by MBrockway

[MBrockway]

On 29/10/2017 at 11:29, Gardenerbill said:

A few more questions:

During his 3 years service Walter committed the following offences:

1. Creating a disturbance in the Bk room about 10-5 p.m
2. Drunk on the Mole Marino about 11.25 p.m.
3. Absent off furlough tattoo 18th till 11.45 p.m. 19th
4. Unreadable
5. Abs from reveille till apprehended by the civil police at about 10.5 a.m. 26th Inst.
6. Absent from tattoo and Improperly dressed in town at 11.25 p.m.
7. Absent from tattoo 1.9.05 until apprehended by B.M.P. 12 mnght 2.9.05

What does tattoo mean in this context?
Is BMP battalion Military Police?
And is this number of offences, 7 in 3 years, fairly typical?

 

 

7 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

I think that BMP is probably British Military Police, as distinct from Maltese local civilian police. It could be Battalion MP, but these were usually referred to as RP or Regimental Police.

 

Tattoo was the time in the evening when soldiers should return to barracks, broadly comparable to a pub's "Last Orders" (though I stand ready to be corrected in this respect by any who have actually served in the Army). There was an appropriate bugle call, after which  came "Last Post".

 

Ron

 

Been examining Bedingham's service record myself.

 

Offence #7 took place at Winchester after he had been posted back to the Rifle Depot (which by then had re-opened at Winchester).

 

Offences #4 - #7 all took place at Winchester.  #1 was at Gosport in 1902 (Rifle Depot) and only #2 was on Malta.

 

Mark

 

[MBrockway]

3 hours ago, Gardenerbill said:

This is the full page, there is a faint date of enlistment in the Militia looks like 13th March, anyway I think it is transfer from one of the London Regimant Militia Units affiliated to the KRRC but which one. At the bottom it says place Barnet.

 

 

Definitely 7th KRRC - the stamp at the foot of the page is clear.

 

Walter enlisted into the Militia as 7381 on 13 Mar 1902 joining 7th (Militia) Bn, KRRC (Edmonton Royal Rifles or 2nd Regiment of Middlesex Militia) whose Depot and HQ was at Barnet.

 

See here for more: 7/KRRC marching through High Barnet

 

He then enlisted as a Regular into the KRRC as 4925 on 07 Oct 1902 on Terms 3 years with the Colours and 9 on the Reserve.  After approx six months at the Rifle Depot, he was posted to 1/KRRC.

 

He was transferred to the Army Reserve on 06 Oct 1905.  His 9 years on the Reserve would have expired in Oct 1914, so he was recalled to the Colours at the start of the war.  He appears to have been posted to 2/KRRC.  He embarked on 13 Aug 1914.  1st and 2nd battalions both embarked on 13 Aug 1914, but his only battalion in the BW&VM roll is 2/KRRC and the 1914 Star Roll only has him with 2/KRRC.

 

On 19 Sep 1914 he was reported as Missing 14-17 Sep 1914 by 2/KRRC and on 16 Dec 1915 the War Office accepted 14 Sep 1914 as his Date of Death.

 

During this period 2/KRRC were in action in the Chemin des Dames area near TROYON.

 

 

[MBrockway]

Re the original question [Edit: this post was originally in a separate Topic that the Mods very wisely merged into the earlier thread] about deciphering the wording, inverting the image sometimes makes it easier to make out ...

 

 

 

For what it's worth I think it says ...

 

The Officer Commanding London Rectg Area

having notified the final approval for the King's Royal Rifle Corps

Regiment of No. 7381 Pte Walter Richard Bedingham

of the Regiment, or Battalion, under my command, I have the honor to inform you that

I have no objection to his enlistment etc. etc.

 

A. Wynn Captn¹

 

for offr Commanding 7th. Bn. KING'S ROYAL RIFLES  Regt.

 

 

London Rectg Area being the London Recruiting Area, one of the sections in London District Command, known then as Home District Command.

 

¹Unsure about the signature, but Capt. Alfred Wynn was the Quartermaster of 7/KRRC at this time and this is the best match I can get from the officers of 7/KRRC listed in the Army List.

 

HTH

Mark

 

Edited 31 October , 2017 by MBrockway

[Gardenerbill]

Ron, thank you for clarifying the meaning of tattoo and BMP.

[Gardenerbill]

Mark, that's brilliant, do you do your best work at 3 a.m. ?

I am happy with Recruiting and I had wondered about the 7th Bn stamp. I am putting together Walter's story for a relative who is a friend of my Father-in-law, I will post a draft paragraph or two on this early part of his military career just to make sure I have it right, probably at the weekend, and I would be grateful if you could check it for me. I think I have 3 topics now on Walter so I will put links in them to pull it all together. Incidentally there are two medal index cards for Walter, the 1914 one is spelt with a two Ds. I have the 2nd KRRC war diary and plan to read through it and see if I can find the action where he went missing. 

[Gardenerbill]

Since posting this original topic, I have posted questions about Walter's service record documents in various other sub forums, here are the links:

 

 

Edited 31 October , 2017 by spof
Links removed as the other threads have been merged into this one.

[MBrockway]

1 hour ago, Gardenerbill said:

I have the 2nd KRRC war diary and plan to read through it and see if I can find the action where he went missing. 

 

There is a six page detailed report on the 14 Sep 1914 action at TROYON in the 2/KRRC War Diary complete with sketch maps.

 

2/KRRC's casualties for the day were ...

 

Officers: Killed or Missing - 8, Wounded - 7

OR's: Killed, Wounded or Missing - 306