1914 BEF Embarkation Ships

[stiletto_33853]

Also 3/KRRC, 4/KRRC, 3/RB and 4/RB had all come from India via a short stopover in Blighty to reconfigure.

 

Small ageist moment here, 2nd & 4th RB were in India, 1st were in UK, 3rd in Ireland where they embarked on the Patriotic in Cork on the 17th August, disembarking in Holyhead on the 18th.

 

Andy

[Terry_Reeves]

13 hours ago, Nick1914 said:

Terry, just pulled some very useful data from your previous posts.  Anything on 54th & 55th Field Coys part of 7th Division and probably landed Zeebruge?? 7th October 1914.

 

Nick

 

 

Nick

 

54 Field Company RE  - Embarked 5.10.14 on ss Cornishman. Disembarked Zeebrugge 7.10.14

 

55 Field Company RE - 21st August 1914 Pretoria, South Africa, entrained for Cape Town.  27th August embarked on the Goorkha and Guildford Castle. 20th September disembarked Southampton.  5th October embarked on the Cestrian. 7th October disembarked Zeebrugge.

 

TR

Edited 19 July , 2017 by Terry_Reeves

[MBrockway]

4 hours ago, stiletto_33853 said:

Also 3/KRRC, 4/KRRC, 3/RB and 4/RB had all come from India via a short stopover in Blighty to reconfigure.

 

Small ageist moment here, 2nd & 4th RB were in India, 1st were in UK, 3rd in Ireland where they embarked on the Patriotic in Cork on the 17th August, disembarking in Holyhead on the 18th.

 

Andy

Heh heh - knew I should have checked the RB bits first!  Thanks Andy

[Nick1914]

Terry, many thanks for the latest RE dates again just what I needed.

 

A few more "tricky" questions on individual CO departures and ships.

 

1) Brig-general George Grey Aston and the Marine Brigade going to Ostend and disembarking 25th Aug.  What was the embarkation port for the Marine brigade & ship?  They returned I believe only 3-4 days later and not to be confused with Antwerp in October.

 

2) Samuel Lomax GOC's 1st Division & Richard Haking -2nd.  Did they go with Haig & 1st Corps Staff on SS Comrie Castle to Le Havre landing on 15th August or on other ships?  Presuming everything other than Aston was ex-Southampton?

 

Thanks in advance.  Nick

[Muerrisch]

Nick, congratulations on attempting this mammoth task ................. may we live in hope that you will free up your results for our information?

 

Or [I dread to suggest this!] will you make us wait until you can add a ship picture to each sailing? It may well be doable, there are huge ship photo archives "out there".

[Guest]

Nick

 

I have the BEF regular Infantry on a spreadsheet-Brigade HQs and Battalions - 127 units across 8 Divisions (includes Army Troops transferredto Brigades ect). I only have 8 gaps in the data (mostly Brigade HQs) .I can post it here if you are interested to see if our research converges. The spreadsheets are in the Test area the forum.Some units required two vessels.

 

Corps, Div, Brigade, Bn......Embarkation port...Date...Disembarkation port...Date...Transport

 

Ditto Cavalry and TF Infantry 1914.

 

Martin

  

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Nick1914 said:

Terry, many thanks for the latest RE dates again just what I needed.

 

A few more "tricky" questions on individual CO departures and ships.

 

1) Brig-general George Grey Aston and the Marine Brigade going to Ostend and disembarking 25th Aug.  What was the embarkation port for the Marine brigade & ship?  They returned I believe only 3-4 days later and not to be confused with Antwerp in October.

 

Thanks in advance.  Nick

 

Aston as on board HMS Euryalus with the Chatham Bn. 

 

Chatham Bn War Diary:

 

CHATHAM. 26th Aug 1914: Battalion embarked at SHEERNESS in HMS "Euryalus" having left Chatham Dockyard in a Tug. Brig Gen Aston came on board and assumed command of the RM Bde.

 

Marines:

Chatham Bn - Sheerness in the Cruisers HMS Euryalus and HMS Aboukir. Disembarked  Ostend 27th Aug 1914.

Portsmouth Bn and RMA HMS Price of Wales, HMS Venerable, HMS Formidable and HMS Irresistable. Disembarked Ostend 27th AUg 1914.. 

 

Sources:

1. WO 95/3108/2 Royal Marines Brigade War Diary 1914-1918

2. Britain Sea Soldiers 1914-1918  by Gen Sir H E Blumberg. Page 110.

Edited 19 July , 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

Indian Cav Corps and IEF - A data. Only two data points missing: 2/3rd Gurkha Rifles and HW Sirhind Brigade  - both diaries failed to record the ship's name. Highlighted in yellow.

 

As a general observation It is worth noting that the dates vary by one or two dates depending on how one defines Embarking and Disembarking v sailing and docking. Often it was a two day process so the dates in te Brigade diaries (for example) sometimes differ from those in the Battalion diaries. 

 

I hope it is of use.

 

 

 

 

Edited 21 July , 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

BEF British Cavalry. Embarkation and Disembarkation. Some units failed to record their transports. Some required two transports. Note I have used SS throughout rather than HMT (Hired Military Transport) as both prefixes were used throughout the diaries. 

 

Edit: Amendments and addition courtesy of GWF member Lostinspace. In gratitude. Martin G.

 

 

 

[Guest]

BEF Territorial Force Infantry 1914. 

 

Note: the 1/7th Bn Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders departed on the SS Oxonian which had to return to port due to a fire. The Battalion transferred to the SS Tintoretto. 

 

[Nick1914]

Dear Martin, very many thanks for your sterling work as always beautifully structured so makes a complex task so much easier.......I wish I was as diligent with my referencing.  Sorry for not getting back immediately but the Open Golf and visitors provided a big distraction!

 

With regard to your missing data for the 2/3rd Gurkhas - I already had in my spreadsheet the embarking ships as SS Ekma and Concordia. Unfortunately I can't just find my source but probably "Sepoys in the Trenches" or "The Indian corps in France" as I have mainly used these sources in searching in the last 3-4 weeks. On checking against your spreadsheet and the Garhwal Brigade it made alot of sense although I've not found any specific dates.

 

You may also just want to look at your 129th Baluchis entry I suspect the ex-Karachi date is August 26th not September?

 

Finally would you have any data on Yeomanry embarkation?  In particular the 1/1st Northumberland Hussars around 6th October and the North Somerset & Leicestershire Yeomanry.

 

Thanks again Martin, I spent a most fruitful 3 hours last night trawling your data.  Members interest in the topic appears to have been quite high so really worthwhile on everyone's part.

 

Best, Nick

[Guest]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:24, Nick1914 said:

Dear Martin, very many thanks for your sterling work as always beautifully structured so makes a complex task so much easier.......I wish I was as diligent with my referencing.  Sorry for not getting back immediately but the Open Golf and visitors provided a big distraction!

 

With regard to your missing data for the 2/3rd Gurkhas - I already had in my spreadsheet the embarking ships as SS Ekma and Concordia. Unfortunately I can't just find my source but probably "Sepoys in the Trenches" or "The Indian corps in France" as I have mainly used these sources in searching in the last 3-4 weeks. On checking against your spreadsheet and the Garhwal Brigade it made alot of sense although I've not found any specific dates.

 

You may also just want to look at your 129th Baluchis entry I suspect the ex-Karachi date is August 26th not September?

 

Finally would you have any data on Yeomanry embarkation?  In particular the 1/1st Northumberland Hussars around 6th October and the North Somerset & Leicestershire Yeomanry.

 

Thanks again Martin, I spent a most fruitful 3 hours last night trawling your data.  Members interest in the topic appears to have been quite high so really worthwhile on everyone's part.

 

Best, Nick

 

Nick the BEF spreadsheet for the Regular Battalions (all 8 Divisions plus 19th Inf Bde)  with embarkation and disembarkation details is posted on the "Test" part of GWF. I would happily post it here but I was afraid you might already have it and it wouldn't add much to your existing knowledge. Attachments in the Test area eventually get deleted. 

 

Thanks for 2/3rd Gurkha Rifles. I have both books and didn't think to look. 

129th Baluchis. Yes...Aug not Sep. my typo. Fat fingers. It is a diary that I have not yet attacked .It is a particularly annoying error as the Brigade HQ was on the same ship.  

 

Yeomanry. Some gaps but this is what I have. Old data and not double checked. Sources will be war diaries and published histories. 

 

1/1st Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars

Embarked 19th Aug 1914 Southampton on SS BELLOROPHON

Disembarked 22nd Aug 1914 Dunkerque

 

1/1st Northumberland Hussars:

Embarked 5th Oct 1914 Southampton on SS MINNEAPOLIS,

Disembarked 6th Oct 1914 Zeebrugge

 

1/1st  Leicestershire Yeomanry

Embarked 2nd Nov 1914 Southampton on SS ????????? Note: war diary does not record the neame of the Transport

Disembarked 3rd Nov 1914 Le Havre

 

1/1st North Somerset Yeomanry

Embarked 2nd Nov 1914 Southampton on SS ROSETTI

Disembarked 3rd Nov 1914 Le Havre

 

1/1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry

Embarked 3rd Nov 1914 Southampton on SS ?????????

Disembarked 4th Nov 1914 ???????

 

1/1st Essex Yeomanry

Embarked 29th Nov 1914 Southampton on SS ANGLO CANADIAN

Disembarked 30th Nov 1914 Zeebrugge

 

1/1st Surrey Yeomanry

Embarked 16th Jan 1915 Southampton on SS KINGSTONIAN

Disembarked 18th Jan 1915 Le Havre

 

1/1st Bedfordshire Yeomanry

Embarked 9th Jun 1915 Southampton on SS DUCHESS OF HAMILTON

Disembarked 10th Jun 1915

 

Edited 31 July , 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

Incidentally I recently bought the very excellent "Hospital Ships and Troop Transports of the First World War by Campbell McCutcheon which has images of most of the Transports mentioned. A lovely little book packed with images. MG

[TTracer44]

Hello just a query on Martins Cavalry list I cant see the Royal Horse Artillery, I believe E Battery went out on 15-8-1914 from Fermoy in Ireland, I see some left from Dublin and wondered if they did the same. 

Den

Edited 30 July , 2017 by TTracer44

[Nick1914]

Thanks again Martin, I'd love to access your BEF spreadsheets but what/where is the "Test" area on the GWF? I'm not a "power-user" on this site so not all that familiar with the intricacies.

 

With regard to the transports.  Does your new book have a picture of the SS Winefredian by any chance.  It would be great to see if possible?

 

Best, Nick

[Guest]

On 30/07/2017 at 23:25, Nick1914 said:

Thanks again Martin, I'd love to access your BEF spreadsheets

Best, Nick

 Here you go. Some gaps though...

 

 

 

[Guest]

SS Winefredian is here

[Nick1914]

Thanks Martin most interesting. The F Leyland line(owners of the SS Winefredian) was I believe eventually subsumed into the Ellerman Line which was extremely prominent around WW1. 

 

Best, N

[johnboy]

The Bedfordshires had just returned from South Africa, but were quickly re-equipped and attached to 21st Brigade of 7th Division. This formation left Southampton on 5 October 1914 on board the ‘SS Winifredian’ and landed at Zeebrugge in Belgium on 7 

[johnboy]

[Nick1914]

Nice post Johnboy.  I also note the correct spelling is SS Winifredian. I'd seen other sources with an e.

 

Nick

[Nick1914]

Nice post Johnboy.  I also note the correct spelling is SS Winifredian. I'd seen other sources with an e.

 

Nick

[Nick1914]

Dear Cavalry experts, does anybody by any chance know the exact date when Allenby himself disembarked in France with the BEF in August 1914.  Presumed sailed from Southampton but which ship and to which port?

 

Did his ADC Lt George Garth Marshall( 11th Hussars kia 6th Nov '14) sail with him?  Similarly for a second officer on Allenby's Intel Staff Captain Bertrand Stewart( West Kent Yeomanry kia on Aisne 12th Sept '14)?

 

Thanks, Nick

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Nick1914 said:

Dear Cavalry experts, does anybody by any chance know the exact date when Allenby himself disembarked in France with the BEF in August 1914.  Presumed sailed from Southampton but which ship and to which port?

 

Did his ADC Lt George Garth Marshall( 11th Hussars kia 6th Nov '14) sail with him?  Similarly for a second officer on Allenby's Intel Staff Captain Bertrand Stewart( West Kent Yeomanry kia on Aisne 12th Sept '14)?

 

Thanks, Nick

 

I can only help to eliminate possible lines of enquiry.... The only names on the 1914 Star roll under "HQ Cavalry Corps" are

 

Allenby

Drake

Browne

Chance

Arnott

Godman

Marshall

 

No date against Allenby's name...all the others have date varying between 15th an 17th Aug if that helps... Marshall was 16th. The chances of an ADC not going with his boss were slim (in my opinion) given their critical roles. HQ would have an advance party so 15th makes sense as a start date. My guesstimate would be 16th (I know this doesnot answer the question but might help focus the search). Incidentally Bingham 18th  Aug, Chetwode no record, 

 

The 1914 Star roll is incomplete and not a good guide in my experience. Lots of 'misses' in the data. Stewart is not listed in the primary volumes (well at least on my transcriptions) yet clearly he made it out within the dates........

 

Unsurprisingly I have 1914 Star roll transcribed for all BEF Officers Inf and Cav. A Corps HQ would be a small unit and  likely to have travelled with other larger units... on 16th the following disembarkations were recorded for the main body's of:

 

Household Cav Composite Regt (1 LG, 2 LG RHG)

4 DG

5 DG

6 DG

Royal Scots Greys

3rd Hussars

9th  Lancers

11th Hussars

 

Which might help narrow this down...oddly these units don't really correlate well within the orbat.... Some of the diaries might mention if Div HQ ...I will check and revert if any mention but from memory none do. 

 

MG

Edited 1 August , 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

In addition to the above

 

SS Comrie Castle embarked on 11th Aug 1914. 1st Cav Div HQ (plus all Div troops) which shortly evolved into 1st Cav Corps. OC ship was Col Dawkins AQMG which might suggest Allenby was not on the ship [?]

 

Edit. The Marquess says he was a "near disaster" to research having left no memoir or papers.

 

Edit 2. Lawrence James has no leads

Edited 1 August , 2017 by Guest