4th Battalion Middlesex Regiment

[Blackie250]

Looking for other members who have an interest in the 4th Btn Middlesex, looking for soldiers stories rather than war diary type stuff which I already have, also looking for any pre war nominal rolls, and officer rolls for the battalion up to july 1916. Also am looking for a copy of the photo taken of the battalion taken at devonport barracks just before the btn's departure for france in 1914.

[CharlesJohnston]

Also interested in 4 Bn Middlesex. My great-uncle Capt. O.R.F. Johnston was killed in action Saturday 1 July 1916 (the first day of the Battle of the Somme) near Fricourt. Have a picture of an officer group from the preceding day.

[Paul Reed]

Charles - is there any chance of a copy of this photo? I am always interested to see photos of units that were on the Somme. Perhaps you can drop me an email to discuss?

[wizzywadey]

Looking for other members who have an interest in the 4th Btn Middlesex, looking for soldiers stories rather than war diary type stuff which I already have, also looking for any pre war nominal rolls, and officer rolls for the battalion up to july 1916. Also am looking for a copy of the photo taken of the battalion taken at devonport barracks just before the btn's departure for france in 1914.

Hi There,

Am researching for a friend, her great uncle Serjeant George John Lowen, KIA 19 July 1915 France & Flanders

Is there any chance of having a look at a copy of your war diaries? Or maybe you could have a look for me to see roughly where they were or if he is mentioned at all or where i can get a copy of the war diaries...Please excuse me as i am new at this

Thanks in advance

Ian

[drummer]

Blackie250...from the War Dairy would you happen to know if the Battalion was in summer camp when the mobilization order was received?? I do believe that the Royal Scots and Royal Irish were in Willsworthy Camp on 31/7/14 and I have been curious as to the whereabouts of the rest of 8th Brigade on that date..

Thanks,

Drummer

[Landsturm]

Also am looking for a copy of the photo taken of the battalion taken at devonport barracks just before the btn's departure for france in 1914.

That's something I'd be interested seeing also

[Clairet71]

Looking for other members who have an interest in the 4th Btn Middlesex, looking for soldiers stories rather than war diary type stuff which I already have, also looking for any pre war nominal rolls, and officer rolls for the battalion up to july 1916. Also am looking for a copy of the photo taken of the battalion taken at devonport barracks just before the btn's departure for france in 1914.

Hello there,

I am new to the database and couldn't help noticing your entry.

My Gt grandfather was also a member of the 4th Battalion Middlesex Regt.

His name was Alfred W Bunker S/7052 and he enlisted in the special reserves in August 1914. He arrived in France on christmas Eve 1914 and was at Hooge when the mine was blown in 1915. Before that he was aat Kemmel and Ypres and it was at Hooge in September 1915 that he was wounded ad lost a leg, an eye and several shrapnel wounds to his chest, head and shoulder.

Despite this he lived to the ripe old age of 88!

I was wondering if you ever received a copy of the photograph you requested of the battalion taken at Devenport before the off, if you have I would really appreciate a copy and any other information you may have.

Many Thanks

Claire

[Landsturm]

I was wondering if you ever received a copy of the photograph you requested of the battalion taken at Devenport before the off, if you have I would really appreciate a copy and any other information you may have.

Same here. Would really, really appreciated. I'm working on a graphic novel about the subject and all literal/visual help is most useful!

-Tuomas Koivurinne

[Guest tonywevans]

Same here. Would really, really appreciated. I'm working on a graphic novel about the subject and all literal/visual help is most useful!

-Tuomas Koivurinne

My great grandfather, Private john Harvey G/8004 enlisted into C Company, 4th Battalion Middlesex Regiment and died was KIA on September 25th 1915.

I would very much appreciate any photos relating to the battalion between 1914 and the day he was KIA.

[private w c notscheid]

Looking for other members who have an interest in the 4th Btn Middlesex, looking for soldiers stories rather than war diary type stuff which I already have, also looking for any pre war nominal rolls, and officer rolls for the battalion up to july 1916. Also am looking for a copy of the photo taken of the battalion taken at devonport barracks just before the btn's departure for france in 1914.

do you have access to the war diary covering 1st july 1916

my great grandfather karl augustus notscheid g/11603 was kia on this day, born in england of german parents enlisted in dec 1915 aged 38 buried in gordon dump as walter charles notscheid goaded into joining by a relative to prove his britishness

Glyn

[grobinson]

Looking for other members who have an interest in the 4th Btn Middlesex, looking for soldiers stories rather than war diary type stuff which I already have, also looking for any pre war nominal rolls, and officer rolls for the battalion up to july 1916. Also am looking for a copy of the photo taken of the battalion taken at devonport barracks just before the btn's departure for france in 1914.

I joined this forum today and am still struggling to figure out how best to use it. My Great Grandfather served as a regular with the 4th Middlesex in the first few years of the century (approx 1902-1905) and was still on the reserve list when war broke out in 1914, I'm guessing he turned out simply because he wanted to be sure to serve with his old unit and get into the action first. He went to France with the 4th from Devenport and fought at Mons. He was captured at some point, but I don't know when or where and the records don't show this for other ranks. He survived the war as a result of being a POW and of three brothers who also served in various infantry regiments two returned, but sadly the third was killed at 3rd Ypres, having fought for nearly three years inthe worst of it. All of them were in their late thirties, quite an age for an infantryman. Would really like to see the photo from Devenport if anyone has it. I have a photo of a man we think is my Great Grandfather (or could be one of the brothers, confusingly he is wearing an East Surrey cap badge, a regiment none of them served in) probably taken before he left for France.

[KevinBattle]

Hi and welcome. Spend a few hours just going through some of the threads about finding information. There is a useful panel telling you how to best go about researching just below the GWF strapline when you sign in. (The BLUE Beta Search button on the GWF header strip is better than the green Search button) You'll also see a small button on the extreme left as you look at the screen "LLT" which is the Long Long Trail, packed full of useful information.

You may find it better to post your request as a New thread, rather than resurrect an old one. Sounds an interesting family history, post up the details of all the brothers and let the Pals take it from there!! (Full Names, Dates and places of birth, addresses, parents, occupations etc etc) Root out what information you have and if you have photos etc, read up on how to post them. You need at least 5 posts before you can access Private Message and other useful facilities (people find it quicker to post a "Thanks" or some such message to get the required number).

Be warned!! This can become very addictive!!

[grobinson]

Hi Kevin

My apologies for not replying to your very helpful message sooner. We decided to move house and everything else took a back seat in the meantime. I'll follow your advice and read up on how best to use the GWF. It's quite amazing how much information can be found on line, it's just knowing where to look. I found my great grandfather's brother's name on the Menin Gate, fortunately I worked in Belgium for a couple of years and had time to explore the area. Census documents have also been useful to find out what all the brothers did for a living, where they lived, and so on. The most frustrating part is that civilian records are almost non existent - the women appear only in the census, birth, death and marriage documents. Otherwise I cannot glean much about their lives, how they managed on the pitifully small sums from a soldier's pay etc. and how little they received even when a husband was killed.

Since all four brothers served in the1914-18 warplus others on my father's side and more family in WW2, my father in Suez, there's still much to research to complete the picture to pass on to my daughters. I served in the 1970's (Gunners) and am thankful that I have no sons, I;m not sure how I'd handle the fear of having a lad serving in the current conflicts, it's all the more real when you understand the risks and know what modern weapons can do to people. I cannot imagine what my great great grandparents must have experienced with all four sons at the front.

Your advice is very much appreciated. And yes this gets a bit addictive - my only computer based obsession apart from using it as a glorified radio !

Gary

Hi and welcome. Spend a few hours just going through some of the threads about finding information. There is a useful panel telling you how to best go about researching just below the GWF strapline when you sign in. (The BLUE Beta Search button on the GWF header strip is better than the green Search button) You'll also see a small button on the extreme left as you look at the screen "LLT" which is the Long Long Trail, packed full of useful information.

You may find it better to post your request as a New thread, rather than resurrect an old one. Sounds an interesting family history, post up the details of all the brothers and let the Pals take it from there!! (Full Names, Dates and places of birth, addresses, parents, occupations etc etc) Root out what information you have and if you have photos etc, read up on how to post them. You need at least 5 posts before you can access Private Message and other useful facilities (people find it quicker to post a "Thanks" or some such message to get the required number).

Be warned!! This can become very addictive!!

[John Desmond]

I know this thread is probably very much dead, but if there's anyone who can direct me to information on the 4th Battalion Middlesex Regiment I'd be grateful. In particular, if the photo of the battalion at Devonport is available I'd really like a copy. My great grandfather Henry Sidney Carey died 22nd Dec 1917 aged 36 (Quatermaster Serjeant). My grandmother was 3 when she last saw him and the only picture she's seen is a very damaged copy of him when he was much younger. Her stepfather wouldn't let the family talk of him or have keepsakes so we don't know much about him. My grandmother is 97 and is the last surviving of Henry's 5 children and I'd dearly love to find a photo of him. Yes, this is a longshot, but here's hoping.

Thanks in advance. John

[jackin]

Hi there,

I also had an uncle in the 4th Battalion,B company Duke of Cambridge's Own. He died on July 20 1915.Not sure whether that was Ypres or the Somme.I have difficulty tracing not to good with search engines and any time I look up 4th middlesex I do nott seem to get much history on where they were up to his passing away.

regards

b

[markivee]

My Great Great Uncle Victor Gray was with the 4th Btn Middlesex - he won his DCM @ Kemmel on the 25th April 1915. Would love it if anyone could give me any more info .

Mark.

[tomandbeth24]

Looking for other members who have an interest in the 4th Btn Middlesex, looking for soldiers stories rather than war diary type stuff which I already have, also looking for any pre war nominal rolls, and officer rolls for the battalion up to july 1916. Also am looking for a copy of the photo taken of the battalion taken at devonport barracks just before the btn's departure for france in 1914.

I am also interested in the 4th Btn. Middlesex, Capt. Duncan H. Morrieson, 1884. Can anyone tell me what the Regiment was doing at this time? Thanks so much!!

[KevinBattle]

C'mon Pals, surely SOMEONE can answer these posts about 4th Middlesex?

I rarely see any posts go unanswered, yet here we have 4 with no response whatsoever.

Is that really the way we now treat enquiries?

Surely there's SOME information that we can give Johnny D; boaz, Mark Vent and now tomandbeth?

Are the War Diaries available?

I know they can find out about the Battalion by following the LLT links but isn't there anything else we can provide?

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

Does anyone have the WD for the 4th Middlesex ??

If so, I'd be grateful for the entry for

10 October 1917

Many thanks,

Graeme

[JMButchart]

I have the 4^th Middlesex war diaries from August 1914 to 30/06/1916, downloaded from the National Archives. The diaries from the beginning of July 1916 have not been digitised, so I cannot download them.

It is more than late to answer queries from 2011, and in any case I cannot help Johnny D, but just in case they are still looking I can tell boaz that in July 1915 the 4^th Battalion were still in the Ypres salient, manning trenches opposite Hooge. 19^th to 20^th July they took part in a 3^rd Division attack there, following the explosion of a British mine under German defences. The intention was to occupy German trenches. Bombs (hand grenades) were the principal weapon in the intense fighting in the trenches and the Battalion’s bombing parties simply did not have enough of them. They were out-bombed in German counter-attacks and had to withdraw from one part of the German trenches they had occupied.

Mark Vent’s query is a puzzle. In April 1915 the 4^th Battalion were serving in the Kemmel trenches south of St Eloi and the salient. There is a large entry in the war diary for the 24^th, reporting activity in the N.E. of the salient following the German gas attack – 2^nd Ypres. They had one man killed that day and one wounded in a reserve billet. The entry for the 25^th says that they had no casualties during the day or the night. I have found the DCM Medal Roll Index Card for L/Cpl 8172 V. Gray, which gives the date 3-6-15 – presumably the date it was announced in the Gazette.

I cannot help Graeme as I’ve no access to the battalion’s diaries beyond the end of June 1916. This is extremely frustrating for me, because I’m tracing the time of Private G/7315 Bertie Charles Letch in the 4^th Middlesex from June 1915 until he was killed in action on July 2^nd 1916. The war diaries I have are unusually informative, so it is very frustrating to lack the critical last two days of his service. If anyone can help me with the war diary entries for the 1^st and 2^nd July I’d be most grateful.

[WalkEric]

I have the war diary for July 1916. PM me your email address and I will send you a copy

[JMButchart]

My most gratefu thanks to WalkEric, who has sent me the diary for July 1916.

[JMButchart]

Thanks to WalkEric I have the 4th Middlesex war diary for July 1916. This includes a summary of the battalion's casualties in the three days 1-3 July made on 4th July.

The man I have been researching, Private Bertie Letch, is listed killed in action on July 2nd in Soldiers Died in the Great War. I used Ancestry to get separate counts from SDGW of the 4th Middlesex deaths for July 1st and July 2nd. It list 63, all killed in action, for July 1st and 104 (all but 2 killed in action) for July 2nd.

Reading the account of the two days in the 4th Battalion's war diary does not give the impression of more casualties on the second day than the first - quite the contrary. Its account of the first day emphasises their losses from the outset, while the account of the second day, when they were holding a position, makes no mention of casualties.

The count in SDGW of 4th Middlesex deaths for the two days adds up to 167. It lists no deaths for July 3 and 2 died of wounds on July 4. The total of 167 for the first two days agrees very well with the Battalion's war diary totals for 1-3 July. It lists 15 officers, 131 Other Ranks and 15 missing believed killed, making 161. I found one of the named officers not in the SDGW counts because the record did not specify his battalion, so there could be others. However I think the two sources of the counts agree as well as can be expected.

So I am left asking why it is that more 4th Middlesex men are listed killed on July 2 than July1 in SDGW when I would expect from accounts of the battle for the reverse to be true.

Is there any evidence that battalions were encouraged to shift casualties from the first day of the Somme to the second day?

[Guest Lahf1]

Hi all - I am looking for information about my great uncle Private Henry Hickson 6897 KIA on 14 April 2015 - aged 18. He is buried at Godezonne cemetery where a couple of other soldiers are also buried who died on the same day. I have looked at various sites to see what occurred that day but can find nothing specific - so information from the war diary would be really helpful and any other info that anyone has generally about the 4th battalion and any other soldiers he may have known. As he was so young - hard for us to comprehend now - it would be good to know something about the soldiers he served with and the comradeship which would have been crucial in the time that he served. I'd be grateful of any information particulatly any photos during that time ...

Mthx

Lisa

[SydneyBevan]

On ‎11‎/‎06‎/‎2013 at 15:12, GraemeClarke said:

Hi

Does anyone have the WD for the 4th Middlesex ??

If so, I'd be grateful for the entry for

10 October 1917

Many thanks,

Graeme

Do you still want to war diary entry for the 10th October 1917? My 2nd great uncle died on that day with the 4th Battalion duke of Middlesex regiment.

Edited 17 August , 2018 by SydneyBevan