4th Battalion Middlesex Regiment

[GraemeClarke]

Hi Sydney,

 

Many thanks for the offer, however I have now been able to locate the WD.

 

Please remove your e-mail address from your posting to prevent scammers etc.

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

[Larry Hayward]

Guys I'm new to this Forum. I'm investigating my Wife's late Great Uncle Herbert John Emmerson of 4th Bn Middlesex Regiment (12804), who died on 23rd August 1914, at Mons. I have reason to believe he was with D Company, as his best mate who survived this battle told his mother that he was killed instantly by a shell fired at point blank range by the Germans across the canal and it blew him up in the air and on to the barbed wire which formed part of the barricade. His trade in the Bn was Pioneer since 13th July 1911. From what I know about A to C Companies it seems they were dug in all along the Canal in Mons and did not need the barricades and barbed wire as was needed at Obourg to defend the bridge and the flanks of the railway station building. Apparently it is near impossible to establish a soldier's Company from surviving official records but I live in hope. He is buried at St Symphorien Cemetery in the circle to the pillar commemorating 'The Royal Middlesex Regiment'

 

A few questions I hope may be answered - were Pioneers and  similar trades grouped together in one Company?

 

If he joined in December 1909  how long did it take to get a Good Service Chevron / Stripe on his Arm?

 

Thanks Larry

[AndrewThornton]

According to an enquiry card preserved by the International Committee of the Red Cross he served with "B" Company of the 4th Middlesex. The card can be viewed here: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search/#/3/2/224/0/British and Commonwealth/Military/Emmerson

[Larry Hayward]

Dear Andrew,

 

Thanks for sending me the links for the Emmersons in the 4th Middx.

 

Unfortunately, there seems to be a 'cock-up' in the records with K Emmerson using Herbert Emmerson's service number of L/12804

 

Also the next of kin I do not recognise.

 

For Herbert Emmerson, I know his home address in North Kensington London (not to hand) and his Father & Mothers names were Nathaniel & Theresa Emmerson.

 

The search continues but thanks for the info!

 

Kind Regards, Larry

Edited 17 February , 2021 by Larry Hayward

[Larry Hayward]

Dear Members,

 

Seeing as we are all helping each other out, I thought I would share the story of Private Emmerson with you and either help out others who may have had family members killed at the Battle of Mons on 23rd August 1914 or who may add to the narrative below. Please post anything to this thread as additional info or corrections. The account was recorded from both British and German accounts long before personal computers and the sources are now 'lost' to me

 

 

Private Herbert Emmerson, was born in January 1891. He served in the 4^th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment during the First World War, and it is believed he served in D Company. Sadly, he was killed at the Battle of Mons on 23rd August 1914. The 4^th Battalion, Middlesex Regt was the first British battalion to engage the German forces in a full-scale attack in the war at the Battle of Mons.

 

The Duke of Cambridge’s Own (Middlesex Regiment) to give it its full title, had a pre-war establishment of four regular battalions (including the 4^th Bn), two reserve battalions and four Territorial Force (TA) battalions. Each battalion, such as the 4^th Bn Middx, had at full War Establishment, of 1,107 officers and men split between a Headquarters Company, four Companies (A to D) and a small Machine Gun Section equipped with Vickers Machine Guns, dating from 1908.

 

Herbert joined up in peacetime on 28th December 1909 aged 18 years and 11 months and was allocated to the 4th Bn on 2nd February 1910. His height on joining was just under 5 ft, 5 inches and with a given trade as General Labourer. He stated on joining that he had previously served in the 6^th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment, Territorial Force (TF) later called Territorial Army. Sadly, his earlier TF records have been lost but as the minimum age for joining was 17, he could have served in the TF since 1^st April 1908, when the Territorial Force was officially formed, until he joined the Regular Army. If Herbert joined the 6^th Bn at age 17 in April 1908 then he could have served the Middx Regiment 1 year, 4 months in the Territorial Force. This may explain why he had the Good Service badge on his Army tunic, seen on his portrait photo wearing his Red & Blue ‘Number 1’ best uniform. Good Service badges were issued after about six years’ service.

 

The 4th Battalion to which, was based at Devonport at the outbreak of war on 4^th Aug 1914, and as part of the British 8th Brigade in 3rd Division in 2nd Corps it was commanded by Maj Gen Horace Smith-Dorrien and Maj Gen Hubert I.W. Hamilton, respectively. On 14^th Aug 1914, the battalion landed in France at Boulogne as part of the British Expeditionary Force and advanced on foot to its positions in and around Mons in Belgium. The Germans had invaded neutral Belgium without warning in order to advance in to Northern France. As Britain had guaranteed the sovereignty of Belgium it was therefore drawn in to the war against Germany and their allies in the Central Powers.

 

On 23^rd August 1914, 'D' Company, 4^th Middlesex Bn, with about 220 men, was Commanded by Captain H.E.L Glass with the help of his Second in Command, Captain Kenneth Roy. Each Company was split in to four Platoons of about 50 men. Early on the 23^rd August, a reconnaissance by bicycle mounted troops from the HQ of the 4^th Bn Middlesex Regiment had warned each Company that the Germans were advancing in their direction, with the intent of forcing a crossing over the Mons–Condé Canal. The Mons–Condé Canal formed a defence line which it was hoped would contain the German’s advance in to Belgium and onwards to France. Each side knew of its importance, so the Companies of the 4^th Bn Middlesex were entrenched all along the canal, dug in slightly back from the edge of the tow path, using bushes and trees as cover. However, the task for D Company was slightly different in that they had a bridge over the canal to defend which by chance crossed the canal in front their positions at Obourg Railway Station, as the railway ran parallel with the canal at this point. To defend the bridge across the canal in front of Obourg Station, the British built a barbed wire barricade over the bridge itself. In this way they cut down anyone approaching the bridge. In case the canal was crossed by the Germans, D Company built a defence line of sand bags and cement and barbed wire, on the platform and also beside and between the Station and outbuildings so as to protect their flanks. It is believed that this was the only position in which the 4th Bn Middx employed barbed wire and barricades.

 

There were other British Army Regiments, such as the 4^th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers, 2^nd Bn Royal Irish Regiment and 1st Bn Gordon Highlanders manning defensive positions all along the other parts of the canal, either side of the 4^th Bn Middlesex that went in an arch around the town of Mons, but the Germans chose the bridge at Obourg for their attack!

 

The Germans attacked at around 9 am on the morning of the battle. Reportedly the enemy attack was initially by two German Battalions of the 18th Division of the 9th Corps; about 2,000 men. The attack was violent and murderous, with D Company of the 4^th Bn Middlesex outnumbered nearly 8 to 1 and with very little hope of reinforcements as the other Companies of the 4^th Bn Middlesex were expecting attacks in their own area. The 4^th Middx were at first taken aback by the mass assault, but recovered quickly and returned a continuous stream of fire.

 

At this time the German tactics were to send young soldiers in row upon row all in line abreast, which made easy targets for the British Soldiers. The Germans kept this up for quite a while but then hesitated and moved back away from the canal and in to the cover of the trees and bushes on their side of the canal. Up to this point the Germans suffered horrendous casualties, using tactics no better than the Napoleonic Wars with men marching in rows and being cut down with murderous fire. No wonder they withdrew to re-group. However, a little later more enemy soldiers were ordered forward in the same manner by their Officers, once again with no concern for losses. Once again, the British soldiers shot and killed more young men such that their bodies formed a barrier of their own.

 

With so much firing the Lee Enfield rifles belonging to the men of the 4^th Bn soon began to heat up, the men’s fingers went numb from cocking and firing. So many rounds of ammunition were fired that empty cartridges soon began to pile up next to each infantryman. The British Infantry had been taught to use ‘rapid fire’ and inflicted great losses.

British soldiers were able to shoot fifteen aimed rounds a minute with their Lee-Enfield rifles. And they were very accurate with it too. Some British infantrymen managed as many as 20 shots a minute - what instructors refer to as the ‘mad minute’.

 

Strangely by today’s standards each Company was equipped with very few Vickers machine guns. In fact, there were only two Vickers belt fed machine guns in each Company, as military thinking was that 15 aimed shots per man per minute was far better than machine gun fire which it was assumed would waste precious ammunition.

 

At first the Germans couldn’t cross the canal and stayed put as losses were too great. However, the German artillery was called up and placed at the edge of the woods overlooking the canal and Obourg Station. Their artillery was powerful, well-hidden and accurate. Modern warfare showed how deadly it could be, when firing at point blank range. The noise was deafening, shells explode everywhere and shrapnel flew through the air and whistled through the blinding smoke. The British soldiers coughed, their eyes were stinging, but they held their ground. A Major in the German Division gave an order for some of the artillery to move closer to the canal. Under British rifle fire, German Lieutenant Petersen and two others managed to move the 75mm cannon belonging to the German II/45^th Field Artillery Regiment much closer. The shelling became more accurate in and around the Railway Station. A house on the British side of the canal and in the German line of fire was quickly demolished with a few shells and the line of sight on the 4^th Bn Middx positions was now clear. 

 

Obourg Railway Station was allegedly shelled to pieces. It was at this time that Private Herbert Emmerson was killed, as a survivor of the battle later told his mother and family (either in person or by letter) that he died instantly when was blown up by an artillery shell at point blank range, which blew him in to the air and over the barbed wire defences next to the train station.

 

Sadly, the heroic actions of ‘D’ Company could not repel the German advance; there were just too many of them for the remaining soldiers to fight off. By early afternoon, ' D' Company's position was desperate and Captain Glass ordered his remaining men to withdraw. Many desperate individual actions ensued, with men of ‘D’ Company trying to give covering fire to their comrades. In one action Captain Roy was killed in fierce hand to hand combat with the enemy and there remains one great mystery from the action at Obourg Station. Who was the private who barricaded himself on the roof of the station and heroically provided covering fire for his mates as they retreated through the wood behind the station?  Sadly no one knows who he was. By 3.15 pm the German infantry began working their way around both sides of the 2nd Royal Irish Regiment near Obourg. A decision was taken to withdraw the Battalion to hold a new line at Bois la Haut. The remnants of the 4th Bn Middlesex was also ordered to withdraw. Later at around 7-8 pm the Germans: renewed their attack against British 8th Brigade and after an hour the Brigade was ordered to withdraw to Nouvelles. The Germans did not exploit their success in the canal salient as dusk fell. Instead, their buglers were heard to sound the ‘cease fire’.

 

In view of the situation most of the wounded had to be left behind and were captured along with Captain Glass. A very detailed account of the action at Obourg was recorded in the official War Diary of the 4^th Bn Middlesex, written by Lt. & Adjt. T.S. Woollcombe states that of the 220 men in the Company, 183 were killed. That only leaves 37 who survived and were able to re-join the Battalion later that day, some of which were wounded.

 

However, the Germans lost far more men than the 4^th Bn Middlesex, and after the battle it was found that the 4^th Bn Middlesex had held up a force of eight German Infantry Battalions. In the Battle of Mons, the British Army suffered some 1,638 casualties, with losses concentrated especially in those units which occupied the canal salient. As many as 5,000 Germans were killed or wounded in the one-day engagement.

 

 Herbert Emmerson is buried at St Symphorien Cemetery  in a circle around a pillar to the 'Royal Middlesex Regiment' as the Germans mistakenly thought they must be a royal regiment due to the ferocity of their defense in 1914.

 

Edited 17 February , 2021 by Larry Hayward

[RaySearching]

4 hours ago, Larry Hayward said:

Dear Andrew,

 

Thanks for sending me the links for the Emmersons in the 4th Middx.

 

Unfortunately, there seems to be a 'cock-up' in the records with K Emmerson using Herbert Emmerson's service number of L/12804

 

Also the next of kin I do not recognise.

 

For Herbert Emmerson, I know his home address in North Kensington London (not to hand) and his Father & Mothers names were Nathaniel & Theresa Emmerson.

 

The search continues but thanks for the info!

 

Kind Regards, Larry

 

Larry

The card from the ICRC  link provided by Andrew Thornton is the correct card (just a typo on his first initial) 

 

His mothers name was Teresa Emma Emmerson  The address  on the ICRC card, almost  corresponds with his mothers dependants pension card claim

 

which indicates that  that he served in B Company 4th Middlesex 

as previously stated by Andrew

 

 

Pension card curtsy of the Western Front Association

 

Ray

 

 

 

Edit the Emma making the enquiry to the 1CRC appears to be 

Teresa Emma Emmerson's  married daughter  Emma Oliver (nee Emmerson)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 February , 2021 by RaySearching
adding info

[Guest]

An excellent write-up.

 

Herbert Emmerson was asked for through the Red Cross and has a card with the International  Red Cross "Prisoners" website. Alas, it has him listed with the wrong initial.  He is listed as B Company but this does not really affect matters-  Often family members making enquiries were giving details which were "last known position" and not absolutely up to date. However, it does suggest that he was in B Company as the Die Hards went to France

    Quite who Mrs Emma Oliver was is down to you!!

   

 

[Larry Hayward]

Dear Raysearching,

 

Thanks for the attached regarding his War Pension

 

Is there the possibility that if the Red Cross mixed up two records even if Emma Oliver was his sister and Oliver is her married name and she made the enquiry?

'Disparu' means disappeared in French - so why not say 'mort'.

 

Incidentally when was the enquiry likely to have been made. Shortly after the Battle of Mons or after WW1?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Larry

 

 

 

[RaySearching]

16 minutes ago, Larry Hayward said:

Is there the possibility that if the Red Cross mixed up two records even if Emma Oliver was his sister and Oliver is her married name and she made the enquiry?

No

[Matlock1418]

So what does this additional pension card do for you?

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3 - with thanks

Same address as PoW card

:-) M

[Matlock1418]

37 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

  Quite who Mrs Emma Oliver was is down to you!!

   

 

See also:

Another pension card as the same address as PoW card

:-) M

Edited 17 February , 2021 by Matlock1418

[Guest]

Thanks Chaps- I am asking the Mods. to merge threads or shut one of them down-  Opening of double threads on the same topic is beginning to p*ss me off.

[Matlock1418]

On 17/02/2021 at 20:34, Guest said:

I am asking the Mods. to merge threads or shut one of them down-  Opening of double threads on the same topic is beginning to p*ss me off.

, A good idea to try and minimise but the other thread is older.  We do understand, but Larry H is a newbie so we should jut be grateful that he posted in the first place - Know you appreciate it that.

Larry - another thanks for your detailed posting on Pte. Emmerson.

:-) M

[Guest]

Fair go.  But is was the second time this week.

 

     I have looked at CWGC-  Taking it that  "Sid" fell ill up to one week before with dysentery and that dysentery is likely to kill fairly quickly, then between 16 November 1915 and 31st December 1915 there are 4 men of 2nd Royal Fusiliers with the initial "S" who died-  2 at Helles memorial, one at Gallipoli and one at East Mudros.  This matter may be insoluble

 

 

Edited 17 February , 2021 by Guest

[AndrewThornton]

Hello Larry. Looking at ICRC records you will often come across interesting spellings of surnames and incorrect initials. However the information does relate to Herbert (as also confirmed by Matlock1418). With regard to him being reported as missing (disparu), this too is not unusual, especially for soldiers of the 4th Middlesex who fought at Obourg. The process of trying to establish what happened to those reported as missing was sometimes a lengthy one and with regard to many of the 4th Middlesex, their death was not assumed to have happened on 23 August 1914 'for official purposes' (such as for payment of pensions and settling the outstanding balance of effects) until 1916, 1917 or even in some cases 1918. My blog post on the story of Private John Parr may be of interest as it details how the Record Office at Hounslow received information and how it was processed.

 

https://ourwar1915.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/private-john-henry-parr/

 

Edited 17 February , 2021 by AndrewThornton
Spelling

[Larry Hayward]

Dear All,

 

Thanks for all your help; I really do appreciate it and I hope I don't come across as rude for my disbelief in the sources. As mentioned I am a newbie to this forum . All the other members of my family who fought in WW1 came home alive, all be it, with wounds, so there history is known. Herbert Emmerson was the only one who did not come home. I have endeavoured to find out in which Company he served for 30 years - so I am really grateful to all on here if I finally have the answer.

 

One of the biggest reasons why I convinced myself that he was in D Company is the manner of his death from a fellow comrade in 4th Bn Middx, who said he was blown up at point blank range by German artillery and his body was thrown up in the air and he came down over the barbed wire barricade. 

 

In reading up on the 4th Bn Middx I had convinced that B Company was not at Obourg Station and yet just now I have this site (below) stating that B Company was also at Obourg Station. If this is true then both the IRC records and the eye witness accounts both match!

5. Obourg Station | visitMons - The Official Tourism Website of the Mons Region   

I appreciate that B Company was to the left of D Company at Obourg Station and I wonder where this statement comes from in the above link ?

 

At the station, B Company had been put under Lieutenant WILMOT-ALISTON who gained the unhappy privilege of becoming the first prisoner from the entire British Army. The soldiers had been camouflaged under the platform of the annex, well concealed under sacks of cement. Thanks to this protection, they cut down any enemy that tried to approach. The German soldiers were from the 31st Infantry Regiment.

 

Lastly for a Good Service Chevron inverted stripe, how many years service was needed to get this badge?

 

[Gunner 87]

6 minutes ago, Larry Hayward said:

Dear All,

 

Thanks for all your help; I really do appreciate it and I hope I don't come across as rude for my disbelief in the sources. As mentioned I am a newbie to this forum . All the other members of my family who fought in WW1 came home alive, all be it, with wounds, so there history is known. Herbert Emmerson was the only one who did not come home. I have endeavoured to find out in which Company he served for 30 years - so I am really grateful to all on here if I finally have the answer.

 

One of the biggest reasons why I convinced myself that he was in D Company is the manner of his death from a fellow comrade in 4th Bn Middx, who said he was blown up at point blank range by German artillery and his body was thrown up in the air and he came down over the barbed wire barricade. 

 

In reading up on the 4th Bn Middx I had convinced that B Company was not at Obourg Station and yet just now I have this site (below) stating that B Company was also at Obourg Station. If this is true then both the IRC records and the eye witness accounts both match!

5. Obourg Station | visitMons - The Official Tourism Website of the Mons Region   

I appreciate that B Company was to the left of D Company at Obourg Station and I wonder where this statement comes from in the above link ?

 

At the station, B Company had been put under Lieutenant WILMOT-ALISTON who gained the unhappy privilege of becoming the first prisoner from the entire British Army. The soldiers had been camouflaged under the platform of the annex, well concealed under sacks of cement. Thanks to this protection, they cut down any enemy that tried to approach. The German soldiers were from the 31st Infantry Regiment.

 

Lastly for a Good Service Chevron inverted stripe, how many years service was needed to get this badge?

 

 Hi Larry, Good Conduct Stripes were awarded to Private's and Lance Corporal's, or equivalent, for two, six, twelve or eighteen years and every five years that.  

[Michelle Young]

Threads merged

[Matlock1418]

On 03/11/2020 at 22:13, Midd47 said:

Is there anyone still active on this thread? My great great grandfather served in the 4th battalion, L/15041 Sgt Albert Reginald James. Id be interested to have a chat with anyone still around on here. I also have a picture of his ?company/section.

Hi Matt,

Seems rather remiss that none of us have welcomed you to GWF - So a belated warm welcome to you.

As you can see this thread has indeed warmed up a bit more recently so please post what you might wish [photos are always much appreciated!] - and likewise ask any questions.

All for the greater good - and we hope we might be able to help you too.

:-) M

[Larry Hayward]

Regarding Herbert John Emmerson L/12804 of B Company, 4th Bn Middlesex Regiment , who was killed at Mons on 23rd August 1914. 

 

Does any one know who was in Command of B Company and who was his second in Command?

 

Also, who was Lieutenant WILMOT-ALISTON and what position did he hold in 4th Bn Middx? I have twice read that he was an officer in B Company and that he was the first British Officer to be captured in WW1 (at Mons) ?

Major and Mrs. Front's Definitive Battlefield Guide to Western Front-North - Tonie Holt, Valmai Holt - Google Books

 

Wilmot-Aliston survived the war as a POW and was later promoted to Major

 

Thanks 

 

Larry

Edited 19 February , 2021 by Larry Hayward

[Corgarian]

Dear Forum

Lieut. Lachlan Henry Veitch Fraser, 4th Battalion Middlesex Regiment. Died 24th February 1915

I'm researching the names of the men on Strathdon War Memorial in west Aberdeenshire. The above individual is named. Does anyone have the war diaries who can tell me what happened to him, or at least where the 4th Middlesex were on the day he died?

Thank you in advance.

Image copyright 2022-  Malvern College First Wold War Casualty List.

[Matlock1418]

41 minutes ago, Corgarian said:

Does anyone have the war diaries who can tell me what happened to him, or at least where the 4th Middlesex were on the day he died?

4 Middx War Diary for that date - Currently free to download from TNA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352078 

M

Edit: I now note the same question has been posted in a new thread https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/298299-lieut-lachlan-henry-veitch-fraser-4th-battalion-middlesex-regiment-died-24th-february-1915 - and later answered by another member in exactly the same way!  Please avoid duplication as it can cause duplication and frustration.

 

Edited 11 June , 2022 by Matlock1418
Edit