Hitlers gongs.

[Guest redrum]

Did Hitlers Iron Cross 1st class and his wound badge survive the war? Are they in a collection somewhere?

[Muerrisch]

Didn't Dr No have them in the James Bond film ...... he had everything else!

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I would imagine the Soviets Got them,they were first there!,Or there is a Little old Man in Vienna somewhere {or possibly Argentina}with a battered old Cigar Box,inside it,wrapped in an old Faded Swaztika Armband ,along with some Black moustache trimmings,a Copy of Mein Kampf,.........................................

[robbie]

He actually received 2 Iron Crosses:

He was twice cited for bravery in action, receiving the Iron Cross, Second Class, in December 1914, and the Iron Cross, First Class (an honour seldom given to corporals), in August 1918.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

Robbie

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

He actually received 2 Iron Crosses:

He was twice cited for bravery in action, receiving the Iron Cross, Second Class, in December 1914, and the Iron Cross, First Class (an honour seldom given to corporals), in August 1918.

Hitler was awarded the following Awards:Iron Cross 1EK;Iron Cross 2EK;Military Cross with Swords 3rd Klasse;Wound Badge Service Medal 3rd Klasse;Regimental Diploma For Outstanding Bravery.Ironically the Officer who made the Award of his EK1 was his Battalion Adjudant,Oberleutnant Hugo Gutmann~~ A Jew.

He was apparently recommended for an Iron Cross very early on in the War in 1915,but due to the fact that more names were put forward than Decorations were available for award his Award was disallowed,Hitler going on to win it later.

The First Class is only awarded if the Second Class is already Held{The same applies to the Higher Grades~Though Both Classes Could be{Rarely} awarded simaultaneously}

[PhilB]

Ah, but would any of his medals be named? If not, I`m surprised they don`t appear regularly on ebay! Phil B

[harribobs]

Ah, but would any of his medals be named? If not, I`m surprised they don`t appear regularly on ebay!  Phil B

hang about, i'll get my John Bull printing set out and have them online by tomorrow morning

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I have just found this old book "Hitler's Darkest Secret" ~"What He Has In Store For Britain" by Richard Baxter Published 1941 By Quality Press Ltd London.amongst my odd titles & flicking through it came across the Chapter "How Hitler won His Iron Cross",which gives the "Official NSDAP" citation & the discredited propaganda version of his Service.

The Book states:~

A General Schleicher began to probe Hitlers War Service & Iron Cross citation,a move which rapidly came to the attention of the "Party" & the propaganda machine under Dr Goebells sprung into action to produce the "Proofs" of Der Fureher's Gallantry,

The Public were told that Hitler had served 4 years as a Volunteer in the Frontline trenches,pride of the 16th Munich Regiment{The Lister Regt}

& having been wounded & Gassed,refused to leave the Front save for a partial cure.

The story continues of his award of the EK1:~

"Adolf Hitler was in the frontline one dark night when he spotted a French MG post which was causing many Casualties to the German position.Hitler was a Corporal in command of a desolate post in No Man's Land & ordering his men to stay put AH crawled out into NML to the French MG Post Revolver in hand,jumped up & dispatched several French Gunners,forcing the remaining 12 Frenchmen to surrender he marched them & the Captured Gun back to his lines"

The General's investigation continued by taking Statements from those who had served with Hitler,none of which according to this Book corroborated the Party Line.

A search of the 16th Munich Regiment Files could not provide proof of the Award~"He had not even been given an Iron Cross of inferior grade"

However Schleicher discovered the following:In August 1914 Hitler who was registered as an Austrian National @ Munich was called to the colours @ Linz as a Conscript with the Austrian Army,On August 3rd apparently Hitler petitioned the King of Bavaria to serve with Friends in the 16th Munich Regiment,a a Volunteer,he was duly embodied into that unit & seeking opportunity volunteered for "Runner" duties,being promoted Acting Corporal he became Runner to the Regimental Staff,the nearest to the Front being 5 kilometres,Having been offered promotion he refused as promotion meant losing out on his billet as Runner.Also no details of his Wounding & Gassing could be found,though he did spend much time in Base Hospitals for "Medical" reasons{the book notes these were usually @ times the Regiment was not doing too well!}Schleicher met the fate of all opponents of Hitler & was gunned down by Gestapo policemen @ his Home,his files raided,along with the late Citation granting the EK1 to Hitler signed by Ludendorff.

An interesting read of reverse propaganda

[gericht 1914]

The First Class is only awarded if the Second Class is already Held{The same applies to the Higher Grades~Though Both Classes Could be{Rarely} awarded simaultaneously}

Another thing that sometimes seems odd to collectors about these "progressive" awards is that you cannot actually recieve two of the same in the same conflict (ie. there's no such thing as a " 1914 Iron Cross II Klasse + bar").

dave.

[gericht 1914]

(ie. there's no such thing as a " 1914 Iron Cross II Klasse + bar").

Just to clarify (before anyone jumps down my throat!) - there is such a thing as an "Iron cross II Class and Bar" ("EKII mit Spange") or "Iron Cross I Class and Bar", so it is possible to win the Iron Cross of the same class twice, but it has to be over different conflicts (You can get a 2nd Class 1870 Iron Cross with a 1914 Bar if the medal was won in the 1870-71 War and again in the 1914-18 War for example, or a 1914 Iron Cross with a 1939 Bar, etc.).

I know it's almost an impossibility, but with the existance of the Volkssturm,etc, does anyone know if there was ever a recipient of the Iron Cross with 2 bars? (ie. a recipient of the Iron Cross in the 1870-71, 1914-18 and 1939-45 wars).

Dave.

[Neil Burns]

Hi Dave,

I think a 90 odd year old man would most likely not be awarded a combat gallantry decoration in WWII, maybe a War Merit Cross which replaced the noncombatant Iron Cross II Class. I have no idea if it happened, though.

Neil

[gericht 1914]

I think a 90 odd year old man would most likely not be awarded a combat gallantry decoration in WWII,

Exactly why I said almost an impossibility. I know of one 86 year old who was awarded the EKII during the bombings at Hamburg. He wasn't classified as being "non-combatant" as he was a member of some quasi-military organisation and was "under enemy fire" at the time of his deed.

I doubt a 3 Bar Iron cross holder ever existed, but cases such as above make me wonder.

Dave.

[Rob B]

I think Hitlers decorations are in the Soviets hands they certainly got into hot water recently when I think Himmlers gold part badge was stolen from an exhibition.

Rob

[Neil Burns]

Exactly why I said almost an impossibility. I know of one 86 year old who was awarded the EKII during the bombings at Hamburg. He wasn't classified as being "non-combatant" as he was a member of some quasi-military organisation and was "under enemy fire" at the time of his deed.

I doubt a 3 Bar Iron cross holder ever existed, but cases such as above make me wonder.

Dave.

Hi Dave,

Error on my part, I figured the War Merit Cross w/swords would have been awarded to this type of unit.

Live & learn,

Neil

[barrieduncan]

Are Himmler's medals/badges still doing the rounds? Thats surprising, I read that the medals belonging to the defendants at Nuremburg were all melted down, is that right?

Before anyone jumps in, I know Himmler wasn't at Nuremburg, but I would have thought they would have done the same with his medals, had they been found.

[Rob B]

Melting down was an easy option but the Russians got to the bumker first and a lot of kit went back to the Motherland. They even took the Fuherers half destroyed skull and subsequently burnt it, ground it down and floated it down the river to prevent the extreme right from getting it.

With the opening up of the Soviet block I am sure more of these little souveniers will come to light. On the party badges the original plan was that on the death of the holder the badge be returned to Germany for interment in a special vault. Himmlers I read had been stolen from an exhibition within the last 6 months possibly to order.

Its all true it was in the Telegraph!

Rob

[Jim Strawbridge]

Also no details of his Wounding & Gassing could be found,though he did spend much time in Base Hospitals for "Medical" reasons

Perhaps being treated for a deficiency in the testicle department, hence the song.

[Rob B]

He might have had only one - But it was a very good one!

Rob

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I read that the medals belonging to the defendants at Nuremburg were all melted down

Goering's Iron Cross Grand Cross star [One of them] @ least survives,I believe held by a USA Forces

Museum,

With regard to AH's Hospitalisation;General Schleichers inquiries portrayed him as somewhat of a "Lead Swinger" on the accounts of those who had served with him & were brave enough to commit their recollections to paper

[Jonathan Saunders]

Goering's Iron Cross Grand Cross star [One of them] @ least survives,I believe held by a USA Forces

Museum,

I thought Goering's medals (possibly not the full complement) were in a private collection and currently on display in the BoB/Blitz hangar at Hendon?

[Guest]

I would like to think that Hitler's medals are now part of some rusting old "Trabi" in some farmer's barn and accommodation to chickens in former East Germany.

[Neil Burns]

Goering's Field Marshal's Baton (one of them at least!) is on display at the West Point museum.

Neil

[Guest C729LEE]

I would like to think that Hitler's medals are now part of some rusting old "Trabi" in some farmer's barn and accommodation to chickens in former East Germany.

Yes, just outside Erfurt in a yellow Trabant in a barn on farmer Helmut Ruhnke's South field. Just where I can pull off the motorway, nip over the fence, be in & out in seconds & have them on my wall within the week

Lee

[Guest Hill 60]

I thought Goering's medals (possibly not the full complement) were in a private collection and currently on display in the BoB/Blitz hangar at Hendon?

They were there a few years ago. Can't remember when, but I recall looking at them and his uniform (?).

[Mark Crame]

Goerings decorations were at hendon the last two times I went.