Barracks Challenge - 1911 Census

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SteveE said:

Martin

This doesn't answer your Sheffield problem but......

"England, York     1"

2nd Bn. Yorkshire Regiment (or some of it at least) along with some Royal Scots Greys was at Strensall Camp, Strensall, York.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_28383_0085_34/39365610?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=rg14_28383_0053_34

Steve

 

 

many thanks. Another one added. 

[MBrockway]

There were lots of non-infantry units at Woolwich - ASC, AOC were there in numbers. RAMC, artillery and Engineers also present.  Eastern Command HQ too of course.

 

Why do you think it's an infantry battalion you're missing?

 

Edited 16 November , 2016 by MBrockway
Website stutter caused content duplication

[Hywyn]

With due apologies if I may have the wrong end of the stick here as to which you have and haven't found.

 

On Ancestry England 1911 if you just put Military into Keywords you get 218,891 returns

 

Those that show Residence as Military are the overseas ones. Those have Residence as Anytown, UK are the home based ones.

 

First two

Hugh Wordsworth shows Residence as Miliatry and when you open the page he's RFA in India

 

Kenneth Ross shows Aldershot, Surrey and when you open it you get the below (putting Military  Woolwich gets 6758, some born there though)

 

Name:	Kenneth Ross
Age in 1911:	20
Estimated birth year:	abt 1891
Birth Place:	Holborn, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:	Aldershot
Search Photos:	Search for 'Aldershot' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island:	Surrey
Country:	England
Street address:	Albuhera Barracks, Stanhope Lines, Aldershot
Marital Status:	Single
Military Unit:	4th Battalion Middlesex Regiment
Registration district:	Farnham
Registration District Number:	34
Sub-registration district:	Aldershot
ED, institution, or vessel:	13
Piece:	3123

[Hywyn]

Having read your opener again I see I did get wrong end of stick.

 

I note you say in the list in post 1 you have not found those for Gravesend.

 

Put Military in Keywords and put Gravesend in Street address and it seem it's 1st Bn Duke of Cornwall L I  About 741 of them

 

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1911England&gss=sfs28_ms_r_db&new=1&rank=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gskw=military&gskw_x=1&_F0006866=gravesend&_F0006866_x=1&MSAV=2&uidh=a63

 

 

 

[westkent78]

Solved the 1st RWK in Great Warley/Hornchurch conundrum. It's a portion of 1st Bn The Queen's (West Surrey) and not Queen's Own Royal West Kent. Looks like the Married Quarters.

 

Have you tried looking at the 1901 census? Ancestry has put the barracks information in that indexing. I was able to re-find the Maidstone Infantry Barracks that way in 1911.

 

Perhaps if you tell us which Bns you think you're missing we can assist?

 

Matthew

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

There were lots of non-infantry units at Woolwich - ASC, AOC were there in numbers. RAMC, artillery and Engineers also present.  Eastern Command HQ too of course.

 

Why do you think it's an infantry battalion you're missing?

 

 

The original reference document is James' "British Regiments 914-1918" which shows the 1st Bn Middlesex Regiment based at Woolwich on the eve of the War.  The Middlesex Regt's published history confirms this. 

 

I am therefore trying to establish which battalion was there in 1911 during the Census. 

 

 

 

[MBrockway]

16 minutes ago, QGE said:

 

The original reference document is James' "British Regiments 914-1918" which shows the 1st Bn Middlesex Regiment based at Woolwich on the eve of the War.  The Middlesex Regt's published history confirms this. 

 

I am therefore trying to establish which battalion was there in 1911 during the Census. 

 

 

 

Sorry Martin - losing the plot ... mainly through having to plough through very long and closely argued posts in another topic

[Guest]

Since the Op I have managed to locate a number of the missing Barracks. The ones outstanding are all central London, Woolwich (which I suspect was not functional in 911) and the Isle of Wight. In theory these should be easy to locate. I can't establish any regular battalion in Warley. In theory there were two.

 

At risk of repeating myself, I know where these places are and I know which battalions were based there (except Woolwich). I am trying to find the barracks in the 1911 Census. MG

 

Place	Count	Found
England, Aldershot	14	13
England, Blackdown	1	2
England, Bordon	4	4
England, Chatham	1	1
England, Chelsea Barracks	2
England, Colchester	4	4
England, Devonport	2	2
England, Dover	3	3
England, Gosport	1	2
England, Gravesend	1	1
England, Guernsey	1	1
England, Isle of Wight	1
England, Jersey	1	1
England, Lichfield	2	2
England, Plymouth	2	2
England, Portland	1	1
England, Portsmouth	2	2
England, Sheffield	1	1
England, Shorncliffe	3	3
England, Tidworth	4	4
England, Tower of London	1
England, Warley	2
England, Wellington Barracks	2
England, Windsor	1	1
England, Woking	1	1
England, Woolwich	1
England, York	1	1

Edited 16 November , 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hywyn said:

Having read your opener again I see I did get wrong end of stick.

 

I note you say in the list in post 1 you have not found those for Gravesend.

 

Put Military in Keywords and put Gravesend in Street address and it seem it's 1st Bn Duke of Cornwall L I  About 741 of them

 

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1911England&gss=sfs28_ms_r_db&new=1&rank=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gskw=military&gskw_x=1&_F0006866=gravesend&_F0006866_x=1&MSAV=2&uidh=a63

 

 

 

 see post #25

[Guest]

1 hour ago, westkent78 said:

Solved the 1st RWK in Great Warley/Hornchurch conundrum. It's a portion of 1st Bn The Queen's (West Surrey) and not Queen's Own Royal West Kent. Looks like the Married Quarters.

Matthew

 

See my Post #5 -  the confusion between the QRWSR and QORWK was noted and already resolved.

 

The Queen's Royal West Surrey Regt was definitely in Warley in 1911, however I still cannot locate them other than those in Married Quarters. 

Edited 16 November , 2016 by Guest

[westkent78]

Tower of London: 3rd Bn Coldstream Guards.  St. Botolph without Aldgate, Mile End New Town and Whitechapel 21-30.  (Used 1901 census to find the 'right' parish.)

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_01496_0000_02?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d2352%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=rg14_01497_0001_34

 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, westkent78 said:

Tower of London: 3rd Bn Coldstream Guards.  St. Botolph without Aldgate, Mile End New Town and Whitechapel 21-30.  (Used 1901 census to find the 'right' parish.)

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_01496_0000_02?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d2352%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=rg14_01497_0001_34

 

 

 Great. Thank you. The 1901 route looks as if it will be very useful for the London based units. 

[westkent78]

Trawled through Woolwich with similar results to you. The regular Bn in 1901 was 3rd Middlesex at Cambridge Barracks. As you know 5th Rifle Brigade was in Cambridge Barracks in 1911, which might indicate that there wasn't a Regular battalion there at the time of the census?

[Guest]

Isle of Wight is nailed too... 

 

1st Bn Worcestershires at Albany barracks. 

 

Hampshire... Carisbrooke  02

Edited 16 November , 2016 by Guest

[westkent78]

Wellington Barracks: 1st & 3rd Grenadier Guards.  St Margaret and St. John 28-43 

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_00493_0000_02?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d2352%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=rg14_00493_0073_34

Edited 16 November , 2016 by westkent78

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, westkent78 said:

Wellington Barracks: 1st & 3rd Grenadier Guards.  St Margaret and St. John 28-43 

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_00493_0000_02?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d2352%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=rg14_00493_0073_34

 You are on fire....

[westkent78]

Luckily I have a medal group to someone who was at Wellington Barracks in 1851, so a quick look at the parish and I was on the trail

[MBrockway]

Quote

At risk of repeating myself, I know where these places are and I know which battalions were based there (except Woolwich). I am trying to find the barracks in the 1911 Census. MG

 

How about searching the 1911/1912 Hart Annual Army Lists for the location - e.g. Chelsea - then find the unit(s) located there and then noting down the name of an officer from such a unit who is likely to be permanently resident in the barracks - e.g. QM - and then using his name in a 1911 Census look-up?

[Guest]

Just now, MBrockway said:

 

How about searching the 1911/1912 Hart Annual Army Lists for the location - e.g. Chelsea - then find the unit(s) located there and then noting down the name of an officer from such a unit who is likely to be permanently resident in the barracks - e.g. QM - and then using his name in a 1911 Census look-up?

 

I have been using this methodology. The problem with the Guards is that many Officers lived at home and did not reside in the mess/barracks.

 

I am 99% sure that Woolwich was not occupied by a regular battalion in 1911. The Army List shows none. 

I am 100% sure that teh 1st Bn Queens R West Surrey Regt was in Warley. All approaches have been defeated so far.

I am 99% sure that Warley was only occupied by one regular battalion in 1911. The Army List shows only the QRWSR. 

 

Only Chelsea Barracks left to nail...

[westkent78]

Here's the rest of 1st Queens at Warley Barracks. South Weald and Little Warley 20,24-26

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_10015_0067_33?pid=53222689&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DQVc10%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1911England%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26msrpn__ftp%3DEssex,%20England%26msrpn%3D5264%26msrpn_PInfo%3D7-%7C0%7C0%7C3257%7C3251%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C5264%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C%26gskw%3Dlittle%20warley%26_F000686E%3Dsoldier%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3D7a3%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D1%26h%3D53222689%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=QVc10&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=rg14_10015_0105_34

 

Along with a mixture of 2nd and 3rd Essex. Some 1st Queens interspersed with them and more 1st Queens in another book after the Essex men.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, westkent78 said:

Here's the rest of 1st Queens at Warley Barracks. South Weald and Little Warley 20,24-26

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_10015_0067_33?pid=53222689&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DQVc10%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1911England%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26msrpn__ftp%3DEssex,%20England%26msrpn%3D5264%26msrpn_PInfo%3D7-%7C0%7C0%7C3257%7C3251%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C5264%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C%26gskw%3Dlittle%20warley%26_F000686E%3Dsoldier%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3D7a3%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D1%26h%3D53222689%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=QVc10&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=rg14_10015_0105_34

 

Along with a mixture of 2nd and 3rd Essex. Some 1st Queens interspersed with them and more 1st Queens in another book after the Essex men.

 

 

Sublime.

[RussT]

Martin

 

I seem to have two pdf files (circa 40 pages long) tabulating the hyper-links to "all" the 1911 military census pages on Ancestry. I didn't realise I had them and I can't remember from where I got them.

 

If you send me a PM with email address, I can mail them to you - it could be a gold-mine for you.

 

Regards

 

Russ

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, RussT said:

Martin

 

I seem to have two pdf files (circa 40 pages long) tabulating the hyper-links to "all" the 1911 military census pages on Ancestry. I didn't realise I had them and I can't remember from where I got them.

 

If you send me a PM with email address, I can mail them to you - it could be a gold-mine for you.

 

Regards

 

Russ

 

 PM on its way

[RussT]

Hidden away in my archive I now also seem to have found 4 similar tables hyper-linking to the 1911 census of military units in:

 

Ireland

Wales

Jamaica, Malta, Mauritius, Sierra Leone, Singapore, South Africa, Sudan

Aden, Bermuda, Burma, Ceylon, Channel Islands, China, Cyprus, Egypt, Gibraltar, India

 

Hopefully a treasure trove.

 

Russ

 

 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, RussT said:

Hidden away in my archive I now also seem to have found 4 similar tables hyper-linking to the 1911 census of military units in:

 

Ireland

Wales

Jamaica, Malta, Mauritius, Sierra Leone, Singapore, South Africa, Sudan

Aden, Bermuda, Burma, Ceylon, Channel Islands, China, Cyprus, Egypt, Gibraltar, India

 

Hopefully a treasure trove.

 

Russ

 

 

 It will be interesting to see India. Ancestry stripped out the cover pages a year ago and mussed up the sequence. Having indexed it once, the work became redundant immediately they decided to trip the pages.