Territoral enlistment May 1915

[Fujdog]

Can anyone shed any light for me on the following:

 

My ancestor signed up in May 1915, signing the Attestation form E501 for the Territorial Force.  When I looked at his WO file at Kew, there was no Imperial Service Obligation form - although that may be due to any number of reasons. 

 

Forgive me if this is a stupid question: why would he sign up for the Territorials if by that period of the war, he was going to be obliged to go overseas anyway? I understand that he would have been unlikely to have been accepted if he hadn't signed the Imperial Obligation form. Was it to do the length of service commitment maybe?

 

I found this earlier thread 

but I'd appreciate any clarification.

 

He signs up for the Inns of Court OTC on the same day as attesting, and 3 months later is commissioned in the Special Reserve of the Queens Royal West Surreys.

 

Many thanks

 

[ss002d6252]

11 minutes ago, Fujdog said:

Can anyone shed any light for me on the following:

 

My ancestor signed up in May 1915, signing the Attestation form E501 for the Territorial Force.  When I looked at his WO file at Kew, there was no Imperial Service Obligation form - although that may be due to any number of reasons. 

 

Forgive me if this is a stupid question: why would he sign up for the Territorials if by that period of the war, he was going to be obliged to go overseas anyway? I understand that he would have been unlikely to have been accepted if he hadn't signed the Imperial Obligation form. Was it to do the length of service commitment maybe?

 

I found this earlier thread http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/210628-territorial-home-service-option-closed-march-1915/ but I'd appreciate any clarification.

 

He signs up for the Inns of Court OTC on the same day as attesting, and 3 months later is commissioned in the Special Reserve of the Queens Royal West Surreys.

 

Many thanks

 

 

Perhaps he had mates already in the T.F. or he felt like supporting his local battalion - probably impossible to say. Wartime T.F. men were given the option to remit their service at the end of the hostilities - it worked pretty much the same way as with the Kitchener men.

 

They couldn't be forced overseas until the Military Service Act changed their terms of service however they did stop accepting men who wouldn't agree to overseas service. Sometimes it was better to jump than to be pushed.

 

One possible loop-hole I could see though is that a man could withdraw his ISO commitment at any time - this wasn't ended under the Military Service Act. So , in theory, he could have enlisted with an implicit ISO agreement and then withdrawn it afterwards.

 

Craig

Edited 18 October , 2016 by ss002d6252

[kenf48]

It would be easier to shed some light if we knew who he was and a bit more about him especially his age, e.g. the age limit for the Special Reserve was eighteen, and for the TF seventeen whereas the Regular Army required men to be nineteen (we know these conventions were often ignored).  That said there is a simple explanation as to why no Imperial Obligation in his papers.

If he was accepted into the Inns of Court OTC this was to enable him to secure a Commission, although nominally a TF Unit it was in effect, an Officer Training Unit hence no Imperial Obligation.  

The normal pre war training for an officer at Sandhurst was six months but as war was declared this was shortened to three months, the period allowed in the Inns of Court OTC.   

The Inns of Court OTC held a unique position within the structure of the Army in that it trained thousands of officers for active service from September 1914.  

 

See this earlier thread

and see also here

 

At the conclusion of his training he was Commissioned and sent to the Special Reserve, where there was an obligation to serve overseas, to await a posting.  Special Reserve Battalions did not go on active service as formed units but sent men to other Battalions.

 

Assuming he remained fit for active duty, and there was no irregularity over his enlistment he would then be posted to an active service Battalion of the Queen's.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 October , 2016 by kenf48

[clive_hughes]

Ken has hit the nail on the head.  The only reason for enlisting into an OTC unit is so that you will gain a commission: the Territorial element of it may be incidental!

 

Clive

[Fujdog]

Thank you gentlemen, a mystery solved with extraordinary swiftness. So the 'Territorial Force' on the Attestation form is a bit of a red herring. 

 

My ancestor was 2nd Lt Lionel Bertram Frank Morris - 18 years and 5 months on attestation.

 

When he applied for a commission with the QRWS at the end of his time with the Inns of Court he stated his preference was for joining the infantry as a Special Reserve officer  - but a month later he wrote from Chatham applying for transfer to the RFC. Given that joining the RFC at that stage effectively meant serving the army anyway, is the 'infantry' a red herring too  I wonder? Or had he decided he really didn't want to stay in the army?

 

He joined No. 11 Squadron in May 1916 and was dead by September 17th, the first pilot to be shot down by Manfred von Richthofen.

 

Jill

[rolt968]

1 hour ago, Fujdog said:

Thank you gentlemen, a mystery solved with extraordinary swiftness. So the 'Territorial Force' on the Attestation form is a bit of a red herring. 

 

My ancestor was 2nd Lt Lionel Bertram Frank Morris - 18 years and 5 months on attestation.

 

When he applied for a commission with the QRWS at the end of his time with the Inns of Court he stated his preference was for joining the infantry as a Special Reserve officer  - but a month later he wrote from Chatham applying for transfer to the RFC. Given that joining the RFC at that stage effectively meant serving the army anyway, is the 'infantry' a red herring too  I wonder? Or had he decided he really didn't want to stay in the army?

 

He joined No. 11 Squadron in May 1916 and was dead by September 17th, the first pilot to be shot down by Manfred von Richthofen.

 

Jill

In 1916 the RFC was very much still the army and there was no sign of its becoming anything else. So there is no reason to believe he wanted to be in another service.

 

In general with hindsight from the early 21st century it is possible to assume too much that all was logical in man's "career" progress. 

 

I wouldn't assume that he didn't want to be in the infantry when he said he did. It might be interesting to know why he requested the particular regiment. It is perfectly possible that the RFC seemed more exciting / interesting/ attractive a month later. He might have thought that the RFC looked more exciting, or would get him into action more quickly.

 

Were there any comments in his file from the Inns of Court OTU about his particular aptitude?

 

Roger M

[kenf48]

Accepting Roger's observations that 100 years on it's possible to assume too much it was probably as simple as the RFC trawling other units seeking volunteers.  

 

This link describes the selection and training of an RFC pilot in 1916 and specifically mentions the periodic call for volunteers once the recruitment condition of an FAI licence had been lifted.

 

Ken

[Fujdog]

13 hours ago, rolt968 said:

 

 

Were there any comments in his file from the Inns of Court OTU about his particular aptitude?

 

Roger M

Thanks Roger. His original transfer request for the RFC does exisit, and he lists knowledge of motor mechanics, map-reading and field sketching  as well as elementary mechanics and French and German.
 

12 hours ago, kenf48 said:

Accepting Roger's observations that 100 years on it's possible to assume too much it was probably as simple as the RFC trawling other units seeking volunteers.  

 

This link describes the selection and training of an RFC pilot in 1916 and specifically mentions the periodic call for volunteers once the recruitment condition of an FAI licence had been lifted.

 

Ken

I agree Ken, most likely it was a combination of the opportunity arising and him deciding it was something he wanted to do.  I've seen the Skeet article, thank you. RFC training pre 1916 is a very murky area!

 

Thanks again all.

 

Jill

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, Fujdog said:

His original transfer request for the RFC does exisit, and he lists knowledge of motor mechanics, map-reading and field sketching  as well as elementary mechanics and French and German.
 

 

Jill

 

It's more than possible the knowledge of motor mechanics swayed his decision.  I think it was Michael Herr who observed about Vietnam that the car parks of the helicopter training units were full of hot rod cars.  

 

It would still be a most marvellous adventure to learn to fly!

 

Ken