Territorial Home service option closed March 1915?

[clive_hughes]

Hi,

I've long known that the Home Service option for Territorial Force recruits was specifically not offered under the Derby Scheme of October 1915 or after. However, I recently read that this was in fact ended in March 1915. The statement appears in several of Ian F.W.Beckett's books (A Nation in Arms, The Amateur Military Tradition, Ypres 1914). Though I've had his first book for many years I admit this statement didn't impact on me. Neither was it seen in a good collection of Number 4 Welsh District Recruiting Orders 1914-15 which I trawled though years ago in the National Library of Wales; or in contemporary newspaper accounts.

Ian is without doubt a real expert and I'm not denying what he says; but nowhere is the exact nature of this order/instruction given. Can anyone please point me to the source for the original order and what it says?

Thanks

Clive

[ss002d6252]

You are correct in that it happened in March 1915.

The best I have found to date is a Hansard discussion.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1915/jul/28/territorial-force-home-service-enlistment#S5CV0073P0_19150728_CWA_30

Craig

[clive_hughes]

Thanks very much for looking that up Craig, we may find out more in due course

Clive

[NigelS]

A date isn't given for it, but another Hansard entry for 1st July '15 Click implies that Home Service option had disappeared at the introduction of a revised version of Army Form E 624 (Imperial Service Obligation) which all TF recruits then had to sign (this also appears to be linked to changes allowing transfer of men between different Territorial units); other than the need to maximise the number of men available for overseas service, an entry for the 9th June '15 Click indicates another possible reason for the disappearance of the Home Service option:

With regard to the question of my hon. Friend the Member for the Middleton Division (Sir K. Adkins), commanding officers who-are enlisting new recruits will ask the new recruit whether he is willing to sign this new form, and if the man says he is not willing to sign it, then the officer will probably inform the recruit that the Home Service units are full, therefore, if a man wishes to join the Territorial Force—[HON. MEMBERS: "What about transfer?"]—inasmuch as the Home Service units are full and that no further recruits are being taken for Home Service, the services of this man, unless he will sign, will not be required.

Presumably there was a limit on total numbers allowed for TF Home Service which couldn't be changed without legislation (not something likely to have been considered during a war being fought overseas.) I have also come across mention that men who had opted for Imperial Service could, originally, withdraw from it at a later date; possibly this condition was given in the original E624 form with the 'get out ' having been removed on the revised version?

NigelS

[ss002d6252]

There was no limit on the number of men allowed for home service , this was the original ethos of the T.F., but what they did find was that many men who enlisted in the T.F. for home service were fit to serve oversees. Rather than change the T.F. retrospectively they simply refused to accept any new men who didn't agree to sign the imperial service obligation. A imperial service obligation man could revoke that term but it was unusual for a man to do so.

craig

[clive_hughes]

Fascinating, and informative stuff. I'm obliged to you folks.

Clive

[clive_hughes]

Hi folks,

I've now received chapter and verse on this point from Ian Beckett, who was kind enough to burrow into his past notes and retrieve it as follows:

The document referred to is entitled 'Territorial Force: Chronological Summary of the Principal Changes in the Organisation and Administration of the Territorial Force since Mobilisation' issued by War Office T. F. 1 in October 1918. It was in the old War Office Library. On page 5 it cites 79/6988 (A.G. 1) of 25 March 1915 as issuing schedules on the establishment of third line depots with a covering letter laying down that all enlistments must now be for imperial service. On page 12 it cites 79/7269 (A.G.1) of 24 April 1915 ordering the separation of imperial service and home service men with the latter sent to coast protection units and provisional home service units.

The second War Office Library document was 'Miscellaneous Letters during War Period' compiled by T.F. 2 for July 1914 to June 1915. No 759 is an instruction to Associations dated 13 Apl 1915 reminding them that they can now only enlist men for Imperial Service, while 785 of 24 Apl 1915 is that already cited above. As you know Tennant referred to the cessation of recruiting for home service in the Commons on 28 July 1915.

Many thanks to Ian for clarifying this matter.

Clive

[ss002d6252]

On page 5 it cites 79/6988 (A.G. 1) of 25 March 1915 as issuing schedules on the establishment of third line depots with a covering letter laying down that all enlistments must now be for imperial service. On page 12 it cites 79/7269 (A.G.1) of 24 April 1915 ordering the separation of imperial service and home service men with the latter sent to coast protection units and provisional home service units.

So it looks like there was a month or so for the battalions to get their act together before the men were split.

The document referred to is entitled 'Territorial Force: Chronological Summary of the Principal Changes in the Organisation and Administration of the Territorial Force since Mobilisation' issued by War Office T. F. 1 in October 1918. It was in the old War Office Library

Interesting, not a document I've heard of but one which I'd love to see (although I can't imagine there are many copies left).

Craig

[RussT]

I have come across a few service records where a man signed Army Form E624 twice spaced some months apart.

Here is an example for George Laybourne No 465, later 308202 of the Lancashire RGA. The first is signed in April 1915, the second in July 1915.

Can anyone advise why this might have been required?

Regards

[ddycher]

Gents

Have been struggling with this area whilst going through 1915 returns this last week. Without copies of the ACI's or Army Orders to ref it is difficult to pull a overview together. Atleast in the Devons the timeline varied a little :

1. Home Service men from the 2nd Line (1st line already gone overseas) were sent to the Bde Provisional Bn in early February 1915. LEaving the 2nd Line IS only.

2. I see no HS recruits going into the 2nd or 3rd Line after this but going directly to the Prov. Bn. Significant no's of HS recruits continued to join the Prov. Bn. upto the end of September.

3. I could not find anything significant happening in April but this may have referred to the 3rd Line units then being formed. In my case the 5th Devons had yet to form a Depot Coy. but when it was subsequently formed there were no HS recruits posted to it. Depots formed on mobilization were renamed Admin Centres to prevent confusion with this 3rd Line units.

4. That said I see single digit HS recruits in the returns all the way upto July 1916 when HS is no longer shown. With the advent of the Reserve Groups (later Brigades) all ref's to HS disappears.

Not definitive but gives the experiences of a particular TF unit.

Regards

Dave

[clive_hughes]

Dave,

Thanks for noting what was going on with the Devons. I can't recall a "Brigade Provisional Battalion" for the North Wales (158th) Brigade RWF Territorials but their war diaries helpfully commence at Mobilisation, and if I can't have a look in the next few days, maybe Hywyn (who has also checked the local TFA minutes) can comment here?

Clive