Canadian J Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 Good day everyone! I just got back from the range and my BSA 1916 no1 mk3 is way out! I have the fixed rear sight, so no luxury of the adjustable rear windage sight. Is there another way, if any, to adjust windage with fixed sights? Thanks so much in advance! - J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 1st question was it grouping? 2nd is your ammo home load or made, and is it close to the original spec? I think it is possible to adjust the foresight for lateral adjustment, but best left to a gunsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 What distance were you shooting at? A couple of years ago I shot a 1918 SMLE at a windy Hythe ranges at 300 metres and was grouping at about 8 inches. That was without a windage rear sight. Yes there is a way to make the adjustment it's called 'aiming off'. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 I think T8Hants and G.B. made the main points. What distance were you shooting at and what was the group like? If you were shooting at 100 yds then you should have produced a group around 3 inches in diameter irrespective of where it was centred. Once you can produce a reasonably tight group you can consider adjusting the sights to bring it onto the black. If you are not producing a good group then some thing is wrong with either the rifle, the ammunition or the shooter.! - Cheers S.W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 We were trusted to adjust our own foresight on the SLR. If you are striking too far to the right of the targetat 100 yds in good conditions, drift the foresight to the right a little. Trial and error I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 2 hours ago, Stevie said: We were trusted to adjust our own foresight on the SLR. The SMLE foresight was set up in the factory or by an armourer. They are graded (from memory) 0 - 5. A really good barrel would have a 0 sightly a wonky one a 5. Hence zeroing in. The foresight has nothing to do with windage. The SLR had a simple sight despite having a very long reach. One of my friends hit an Argie in the Falklands at nearly 1000 metres. Standard SLR. I suppose that if YOU knew your rifle well you could make such an adjustment. If ever a rifle needed a good sight it was the SLR. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 Canadian J, If the rifle is shooting well to one side there may be a reason for that other than that the foresight has been moved by a previous owner. To be safe, I would therefore urge you to have the rifle checked by a competent gunsmith. That said, a tool is available to move the foresight. Here is a website that may be of interest although I know nothing of the company concerned.http://vmaleather.com/Bromley-Armaments/Sight-Adjusting-Tools/SMLE/desktop/index.php/ Adjusting the foresight appropriately should not involve too much trial and error as if you search on the internet I believe there is a table available giving the appropriate adjustment to achieve a given result. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said: If ever a rifle needed a good sight it was the SLR. John well there was always the L2A1 Sight Unit, Infantry Trilux. As has been noted a lot is going to affect where you are hitting. The rifle was zeroed in the factory but that was @ 100 years ago and lots could have happened since then, Part of the reason for the SMLE's distinctive ears was to protect the foresight which, on the SMLE (and earlier CLLE) went from being a solid, immovable block attached to the barrel to being a blade on a movable (just) wedge inserted into the foresight block. The ears do a very good job of protecting the blade but it can get moved. As Stevie points out using a clamp* or tapping with a drift left and right is the way to adjust it and it will take trial and error. There are other causes of the error (inc stocking up) which would also need to be investigated One thing I would do before doing anything is check the foresight from the front (muzzle end - ensuring of course that the rifle is unloaded!) sometimes the block were punched with a single pin punch mark to indicate the correct position (which is often not central and may look "off") If it was pin punched and the sight blade knocked or later replaced this may give you something to go on. A couple of my rifles are a bit off (couple of inches at 100 yards) and I simply hold off slightly. I have had one (actually a No4) which was way off and I spent an afternoon and nearly a bandolier of rounds tinkering until I got it straight. Chris * the clamp to which I refer is shown in Michael's link above Edited 26 July , 2016 by 4thGordons Add ref to previous post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 27 July , 2016 Share Posted 27 July , 2016 13 hours ago, 4thGordons said: well there was always the L2A1 Sight Unit, Infantry Trilux. Yes Chris, but when it mattered the Argies often had better sights on their FN FALs than we had on the SLR. Certainly more image intensifiers. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 28 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2016 Wow thanks so much to you all for your replies and advice! I was shooting at 100 yards with 174 grain FMJ on a table with a sandbag front rest. I have shot it in the past at a very large target and was hitting approx. 1.5 feet right. After shooting it the other night at a smaller target (10 inch x 12 inch) and not hitting it once after 20 rounds, I thought it was time to ask the GWF pals. I will hopefully be going out again tomorrow evening and will bring a larger target (4 feet x 8 should do ) and will report back to you pronto! Once again, thanks to all of you. Michael H thanks for the link for the front post adjuster. Chris, I will check mine for the pin punched sight tomorrow night! - J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 28 July , 2016 Share Posted 28 July , 2016 Way out ! At 100 yards you should be grouping very tightly. I'd not waste money on bigger targets - targets are not the problem. I'd recommend a visit to a gunsmith who can clamp it down and set it up from scratch. It may be that a new barrel is required. Have you checked the bore? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 28 July , 2016 Share Posted 28 July , 2016 The foresight's in a dovetail and can be moved sideways. There are several different heights of foresight to allow you to line up elevation with the rearsight calibrations. On my SMLE I found the foresight could be moved sideways so easily that I had to dotpunch it to keep it in place - I had to punch the base of the sight blade itself, as the block it fits in on the muzzle was too hard. I would think they could usually be drifted sideways with a punch and light hammer. Of course, you move it in the direction of the error, not the direction you want the MPI to move. Generally you have to take off the nose shoe (can't remember its official name) to get at the dovetail joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 31 July , 2016 Share Posted 31 July , 2016 On 7/26/2016 at 17:10, Stevie said: We were trusted to adjust our own foresight on the SLR. If you are striking too far to the right of the targetat 100 yds in good conditions, drift the foresight to the right a little. Trial and error I'm afraid. Horizontal adjustment to the iron sights on the L1A1 SLR was by means of the two screws, one each side, on the rearsight ramp. You backed off so many clicks on one side and tightened up the other side, using the large screwdriver blade on the combination tool, Foresight could be adjusted vertically, loosen off the grub screw with small s/driver on c-tool, then screw in/out the foresight post using the little fork attachment. In both cases a certain number of clicks or half turns would give a pretty precise adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 August , 2016 Share Posted 1 August , 2016 Question prompted by John's comment (post 11) about "grouping" Were you hitting consistently 18" right or were you all over the shop? It would seem to me you could group very tightly but still be a foot an a half off? A rifle that is inconsistent with flyers all over the place (high/low, left right etc) is a much worse problem than one that is consistent but "off" in sighting. I was assuming the latter. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 11 August , 2016 Author Share Posted 11 August , 2016 FINALLY hit the range today and sorry for my delay in replying! Work and being a new Dad keeps one quite busy! My grouping at 100 yards today was to the right, approx one foot but consistantly right. elevation was adjusted with the ramp site set to 200 yards. once i started shooting slightly left, I started to hit more accurate, but all within 8 inches of center regardless. I was set up with a bench rest as well, however a vice would be an idea to really dial it in. I will have to try and track one down. My barrel may be worn as John suggested, I will post some pics. I was just recently talking to a veteran who used to shoot a no4 mk1 and he said they would use a "drift punch" on the front site, so I suppose they are designed to accept this as MikB suggested. Pics to come of the bore, and I'll try and hit the range again tomorrow and report back again! All the best for now pals and thanks so much for the advice so far - J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 11 August , 2016 Share Posted 11 August , 2016 Sounds like progress to me. 8 inches at 100 yards is not great from a fixed mount, so it may be more than just the sights. Adjusting the sight may correct the shooting to the right but the group needs to be much tighter at 100 yards. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 August , 2016 Share Posted 11 August , 2016 (edited) I agree that 8" is quite a big group at 100yds from a rest. Depending on the way your range is run you might benefit from getting closer than 100yds (distance doesn't matter so much for left/right adjustment as for elevation obviously). In the absence of an adjustable clamp tapping with a drift punch is the standard means of adjusting the foresight as has been discussed*, but be aware that very small moves can make very big differences! (did you see if the foresight blade was pin punch marked?) As John says, there may be other things going on. On a 100 year old rifle there is lots that can. While a worn bore/muzzle damage can really affect accuracy it is very hard to tell how that is going to work just from visuals. I have a couple of rifles that look to be right old sewer pipes but which shoot very well indeed and conversely I have one that looks immaculate but which I have never been able to get to group to my liking. One of the things that is often not understood about SMLEs is that the stocking up is really quite complicated and the fit of the wood (at the drawers and along the barrel channel) has a significant impact, as does the upward pressure on the barrel from the plunger/spring inside the fore-end and even the fit of the nosepiece/foresight guard at the muzzle. Suffice to say there is enough to keep you "interested" for a while! Ammunition might also be an issue - what were you using? Having said that, the fact that it appears relatively consistent is a good thing as all of the above tend to lead to inconsistent results rather than a consistent bias, so starting with the sight to get closer to PoA would be where I would start. Good Luck Chris *Note this is harder on the SMLE than the No4 because you have to remove the foresight protector on the former but not the latter. Edited 11 August , 2016 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 11 August , 2016 Share Posted 11 August , 2016 Three things determine the size of the Group, 1. The Weapon 2. The Ammunition 3 The Firer 9 out of ten times 1 and 2 are not the reason for big groups. My SMLE Gauges .310 half way up the barrel (1917 dated) and holds a sub 4in group at 100 using HXP ammo. If a Military Grade un-tweaked SMLE can shoot 2 MOA or less group you are doing well. The SMLE Bedding screw being loose or at the wrong torque can create issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 12 August , 2016 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2016 (edited) Thanks for the further replies pals! Considering what Chris has said about fitting of the forend at the draws and around the action. I restored this myself and I am by no means a professional. So I definitely feel it could be the bedding/contact points being sub par due to the fact that an amateur (me) restored it with new wood. I am attaching pics Chris (although I know not much can be drawn from visuals) just to at least give you guys an idea of my pattern and the rifling/barrel life. 303man, how much torque is recommended on the bedding screw? Thanks for the advice. Another random question while I've got your attention would be that after every round fired, the safety turns on! The recoil is somehow causing the switch to come back half way, enough to activate the safety. It doesn't feel loose, but maybe it is? I can't upload pics for you guys! The images are less than 245.46 kb so not sure why it keeps telling me "you are only allowed to upload 245.76 kb!" - J Edited 12 August , 2016 by Canadian J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 One thought occurred to me. If your SMLE barrel is an original WW1 1916 fitting, then there is a good chance it may have fired rifle grenades at some time. It is said that the accuracy of a rifle suffered after just 5 rifle grenades had been fired. I've never known if this was the effect on the barrel (slightly oversize like 303man's) or if the shock affected the general set up. It could be a barrel fault dating back to WW1. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 (edited) Did you try with pictures that were too large to start with? If so, I have found that leaving the thread then coming back and starting a new post will let you post them (I believe there is a glitch and the system "remembers" the failed upload so you have to get it to "forget". It seems to work.) So if you have files of a suitable size try posting them now! On the safety - it sounds to be as though the hour glass shaped (or possibly a flat oval if a later Australian replacement) spring is weak or the screw that holds it in place is not tightened. The assembly certainly should not be that loose. Chris Edited 12 August , 2016 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 12 August , 2016 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2016 (edited) It's working! Thanks so much Chris! Here are some bore pics and my target at 100 yards (12 shots fired), shooting Remington 174 grain FMJ, 35$ Canadian per 20 rounds (not cheap by any means). Also using a benchrest. - J Edited 12 August , 2016 by Canadian J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 16 hours ago, Canadian J said: The Safety Catch jumping is without doubt the Banjo Spring being worn, they are reasonably easy to find on e bay or similar buy New old Stock not a take off one. I torque my SMLE Bedding screw to 6n/m. However the spacer sleeve need to be the correct length. to long and the stock slaps about, to short and you crush the stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian J Posted 12 August , 2016 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2016 Thanks very much for the advice 303man, I will track down a new banjo spring if tightening doesn't work. i'll try torquing my bedding screw as well, when i find the right tool! all the best for now - J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 1 hour ago, Canadian J said: Thanks very much for the advice 303man, I will track down a new banjo spring if tightening doesn't work. i'll try torquing my bedding screw as well, when i find the right tool! all the best for now - J Let me know if you can't find one - I have a couple of NOS and can send you one easily. I have found that sometimes disassembling and a very thorough degreasing/cleaning of the parts can help with an unreliable safety (not something you want in any circumstances). Cosmolene and grease/grit in the components can sometime affect them - but from what you have described I bet it's the spring. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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