Somme - if you need photos

[temptage]

Curiouser and curiouser

[robins2]

hopefully CWGC will be able to shed some light on this, still waiting for a reply from them 

[Don Regiano]

Wonder what "body not recovered for burial" means in this context and whether it has any impact on the curiosity of these cases?

 

Reg

[robins2]

In the case of Brown, I suspect that when the card was first completed no body had been recovered, at a later date the cemetery and plot info was added when a body was recovered.  CWGC first showed  the recovery as Leech and later amended to read Brown, still a bit of a quandary, I wonder what evidence led them to believe it was Leech in the first place (a officer) and then conclude it was Brown ( a O.R.) identified by shoulder title.

A very interesting story re: Leech, where the letter he wrote to his mother the night before going into battle: 

 

Another Canadian on the front, Hart Leech, talked about the feelings that came when soldiers wrote their families before going into battle.

“In a way it’s darned funny. All the gang are writing postmortem letters and kind of half-ashamed of themselves for doing it. As one of our officers said: ‘If I mail it and come through the show, I’ll be a joke. If I tear it up and get killed, I’ll be sorry I didn’t send it.’”

Leech was killed soon after writing the letter. It only reached his mother 12 years later, as it became lost for a time in his belongings after he died. 

[BFBSM]

Martine,

 

Thank you for the offer. I shall put something together and send you a PM.

 

Mark

[Don Regiano]

16 hours ago, robins2 said:

In the case of Brown, I suspect that when the card was first completed no body had been recovered, at a later date the cemetery and plot info was added when a body was recovered.  CWGC first showed  the recovery as Leech and later amended to read Brown, still a bit of a quandary, I wonder what evidence led them to believe it was Leech in the first place (a officer) and then conclude it was Brown ( a O.R.) identified by shoulder title.

A very interesting story re: Leech, where the letter he wrote to his mother the night before going into battle: 

 

Another Canadian on the front, Hart Leech, talked about the feelings that came when soldiers wrote their families before going into battle.

“In a way it’s darned funny. All the gang are writing postmortem letters and kind of half-ashamed of themselves for doing it. As one of our officers said: ‘If I mail it and come through the show, I’ll be a joke. If I tear it up and get killed, I’ll be sorry I didn’t send it.’”

Leech was killed soon after writing the letter. It only reached his mother 12 years later, as it became lost for a time in his belongings after he died. 

I take your point and, of course, it is easy with hindsight, but I would have thought that when the cemetery and plot info was added, they would have taken the opportunity to delete the comment about body not recovered.

 

Regards.

 

Reg

[robins2]

you would think so, but at the  same time with Leech form, no corrections there either, still listed as buried Ovillers, hence the confusion, a mix up with paper work between CWGC & Cdn. Govt???

 

regards

 

Bob R.

[robins2]

The reply from CWGC, which does not really answer any of the questions???

 

 

 

Dear Mr Robins,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding Lieutenant Hart Leech, 1st Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion, who died on 15/09/1916 and is commemorated on the Vimy Memorial.

I would explain that as Lieutenant Leech is commemorated on the Vimy Memorial, sadly, he has no known grave. Attempts were made during both world wars to locate and register graves. However, in battlefield areas many soldiers were never actually buried.

In addition, the graves of those who were buried were then destroyed in subsequent fighting. Any possible temporary grave markers were then lost or became illegible. In many instances, areas lost in fighting or very close to the front line, meant that graves registration was often delayed for months, or even years

The casualty buried in Plot 11, Row U, Grave 8 in Ovillers Military Cemetery is recorded as Private James Graham Brown, 101123, 31st Bn., Canadian Infantry, who died on 15/09/1916.

Please see the link below to our website page for all of the information which we hold on Private Brown, including concentration records which record how his remains were identified:

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/545600/BROWN,%20JAMES%20GRAHAM

We hope that this information is helpful.

Yours sincerely,
CWGC Enquiry Support Team    

[robins2]

Subject:	received this latest reply from CWGC, I'm afraid no further info available as to how they had Lt. Leech first buried there and then changed to Brown.         RE: Lt. Hart Leech
From:	CWGC Enquiry Support Team <enquiries@cwgc.org> (Add as Preferred Sender)
Date:	Wed, Jul 13, 2016 6:31 am
To:	"robinsr@westsphereasset.com" <robinsr@westsphereasset.com>

From

Subject (Thread Messages)

Date

Size

Dear Mr Robins   Thank you for your email.   Please find below a link to our website with details of Private J G Brown.   http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/545600/BROWN,%20JAMES%20GRAHAM   All the documents related to this case are available on the above link.   I am afraid that this is all the information we hold. The discovery, identification and reburial was undertaken by the Grave Registration Units at the time, however a later research from them showed that the remains believed to be those of Private Brown rather than Lt Leech. We sadly hold no records of this investigation so we do not know how they arrived to this conclusion.   We hope you find this information useful.   Kind regards   CWGC Enquiries Team

[Frajohn]

On 11 June 2016 at 22:34, Mark Hone said:

Martine-would you consider photographing the following headstones of former pupils of Bury Grammar School?

Corporal Percy Grenfell Simmonds, 20th Battalion King's (Liverpool) Regiment, died 26/6/16. Grave II L 17 Cerisy-Gailly Military Cemetery

Sergeant John Norman Leather, 20th Battalion Manchester Regiment, died 25/9/16. Grave II F 20 La Neuville British Cemetery, Corbie

Many thanks,

Mark Hone

 

 

Hi Mark

 

Below are the images you requested.

 

PM an email address if you would prefer them sent through.

 

Kind regards

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Hone]

Thanks very much, John, lovely pictures.

[robins2]

excellent photos, well done

 

Regards

 

Bob R.

[Ghazala]

Thank you Martine.