Seeking translation of a wound description in German

[The Prussian]

Please have a look at #21

There you see the 41st division.

Curry served with the Durham Light Infantry. The 20th bataillon was attached to the 41.Inf.Div.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battalions_of_the_Durham_Light_Infantry

[The Prussian]

Here the official german recordings (Der Weltkrieg 1914-1918, vol. 14)

The english XVII. corps left the hill of Monchy in the night. A german advancing over the line Hénin-Mory into the west would have torn the entire front.

General Byng, leader of the 3rd army, sent all reserves in that area. The 41st Division, coming from Doullens, took part in Morchies, because the six brigades of the IV. corps were reduced to bataillons-strength; the brigade at Morchies had only 120 men!

http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/education/universities/dissertations-post-graduate/the-durham-light-infantry-in-the-first-world-war-1914-1918.html#sthash.1G6uPiX9.dpbs

[JefR]

Hi Andy

Thanks for your note on abbreviations. I understand Parchim was a work camp, so "Nicht Verwendungsfähig" - not employable - makes a a lot of sense. Actually, all eleven men listed on the page are marked as "Nicht Verw." So perhaps those who were unfit were housed together.

The details of the 3 records are attached.

Thanks too for the maps and military details.

38607 Thomas Mark Curry was in the 2^nd Durham Light Infantry which was part of 3^rd Army, 6^th Division, 18^th Brigade, and I am quite certain that he was captured at,Morchies near Bapaume on 21^st March 1918. Although I have not checked the Battalion diary, I have referred to John Sheen's history of the 2^nd DLI "The Steel of the DLI" and he devotes 10 pages to the Battalion's action around Leech Trench near Morchies on that day.

The Friedrichsbesg Camp record is correct in all the basic details whilst the Parchim record lacks the second forename and is incorrect in Surname spelling, and place of capture - understandable errors perhaps given the influx of prisoners between March and June 1918.

On balance, I'm inclined to believe the Friedrhsberg record.

Best regards

Jef

[The Prussian]

Jef

I´m a little bit puzzled with the D.L.I.

The british system with over 20 bataillons is very strange to me. Some sources say, that the 2nd bataillon were near Arras, some sources mention the 20th bataillon.

He served with the 2nd company. 2nd company of what? 2nd bataillon or 20th bataillon? How were the companies counted in the british army?

[JefR]

Andy

I'm not surprised that you are puzzled - everyone is puzzled - I am most certainly confused. Indeed, if you are not confused you don't understand!

It seems that nothing is standard in the British Army. Every statement about it should begin "Usually, but not always……"

The best source of information is the "Long, Long, Trail" website. There is a link to this site in the menu bar at the very top of this forum's home page - it is the first item in the dark blue menu bar immediately below the "Great War Forum " title. I've included instructions for finding further information in red where the symbol " > " means "click the left mouse button".

Regiments

The Long Long Trail website lists 83 regiments in the British Army and each regiment has a different number of battalions. The Durham Light Infantry (DLI), one of the largest regiments, contained 43 battalions in the 1914/18 period whilst the Wiltshire regiment, one of the smallest, contained 10 battalions. This is probably because traditionally each regiment recruited from a geographic region and the number of men available to it depended on the size of the population in that region.

For more information see: The Long Long Trail > Army (on the black menu bar) > Regiment and Corps (blue subheading) > Infantry Regiments (blue subheading) > Durham Light Infantry (or any other regiment you wish to explore).

Battalions

The Battalion consisted of about 1000 men and was the basic army unit in 1914/18 (please don't ask me to explain the Battalion numbering system!). Each Battalion was divided into four fighting companies (Coys) of about 220 men, usually, but not always, identified as A, B, C, and D; the remaining 120 or so being administrative staff, signallers, cooks et cetera.

The man I'm investigating served in B Coy of the 2^nd Battalion DLI.

The battalions of the regiment would be attached to different divisions. Thus, the 2^nd Battalion of the DLI was a part of the 6^th Division which in March 1918 was located in the area of Morchies, whilst the 20^th Battalion DLI was part of the 41st Division located near Arras.

For more information see: The Long Long Trail > Army (on the black menu bar) > Definitions of Units (blue subheading).

You might also find useful information in: The Long Long Trail > Army (on the black menu bar) > Infantry Divisions.

And: The Long Long Trail > Army (on the black menu bar) > Basic Hierarchy of the Army.

I hope this helps

Jef

[The Prussian]

Hello Jef!

Well, that helped a lot! Thank you very much. I know the "Long, long trail" site, but I am old-fashioned and I prefer real books. I use internet-sources only in extremly emergency cases...

I was not sure, that 2nd D.L.I. means 2nd bataillon. Then it´s clear.

Fact is, the 6th division was located near Lagnicourt (Morchies, Bapaume). I read that in the divisional history of the 6th division (pages 46-47), that you can download here:

https://ia802702.us.archive.org/11/items/hist6thdivision00marduoft/hist6thdivision00marduoft.pdf

Here I have anpother close-up, which shows the location of the 6th divison near Lagnicourt. Their german opponent might have been the 20th division with the infantry regiments 77 (2nd. Hannover), 79 (3rd Hannover) and 92 (Braunschweig).

[The Prussian]

organizations on march, 21 (morning)

You see:

british 3rd army (Gen. Byng), IV. Corps, 6th Division with 6 bataillons in the "hot zone" (1. Stellung) - task force reserves: 25. Division and three tank-bataillons

versus

german XIV. reserve corps Arras (17. army), Generalleutnant v. Lindequist with bavarian 16th. Inf.Div., 20.Inf.Div. and 3.Guard Inf.Div., 2nd line: 39.Inf.Div.

[JefR]

Andy

Pleased I was able to be of help. Thank you for the map, the 6th Division history link (a book I haven't seen before) and the Order of Battle pages for 21st March..

It will take me some time to work through the tables because I find the old Gothic script difficult to interpret, and also my German language skills are very rusty now. It's over 40 years since I was in Germany for an extended period.

At that time I was not far from where you live, I spent a few months in Leverkusen at the Wuppermann steelworks and remember visiting one of the Krupp steelworks in Essen.

With very best regards

Jef

[The Prussian]

Jef,

Well, the script is not too difficulty...

We have I.D. for infantry division, R.D. for Reserve-Division and R.K. for Reserve-Korps.

The headlines are: Die britische Abwehrfront (the british defense-front) and "Die deutsche Angriffsfront" (the german attack-front).

A means Armee-Reservem (army reserves), H means Heeresreserven (Heer in this case means the reserves of the OHL, the underlined units were attack-divisions, the not-underlined units are trench-divisions.

Yes, Leverkusen ist 60km from my home. The Krupp steelworks have finished now. We don´t have any industrial areas here. Today it´s just administration.

[trajan]

It will take me some time to work through the tables because I find the old Gothic script difficult to interpret, and also my German language skills are very rusty now. It's over 40 years since I was in Germany ...

Jef, after living and working in Hannover 40 years back, I was then fortunate enough to have to keep up some German for academic work, but the reading has certainly improved over the past few years thanks to being on GWF! So, yours will come back!

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

I was puzzled with the ü (über). But surely if the gunshot wound was above the knee, the medical term would be: Oberhalb des Knies (above the knee)?

Kindest regards,

Kim.