seaforths Posted 30 April , 2016 Share Posted 30 April , 2016 Who is the photographer? (identified lower left) this may help with location Chris Oh I've already burnt out my retinas trying to read that! The first letter looks like an 'H' or then again 'W' following on from that initial looks like an St.... Marjorie, That the site of the photo is Ripon seems as plausible a theory as any. Maybe someone will be along who recognizes the building in the background. Mike Thanks Mike, I did try searching for images but not surprisingly, similar structures with those windows also found Tidworth and Salisbury so they were probably being constructed hastily to a uniform plan. It also occurred to me that if it had been Cromarty and all of these men had been diverted to 1st Seaforth, they might have had their insignia changed so we wouldn't see the 4th Bn. on the epaulettes - leaving Ripon but as Chris states - if the OP can make out the photographer's name from the original image, that would be most helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 30 April , 2016 Share Posted 30 April , 2016 Oh I've already burnt out my retinas trying to read that! The first letter looks like an 'H' or then again 'W' following on from that initial looks like an St.... Looks to me to be Stephens - H more likely than W? There is a pay-for photographers 1840-1940 site that lists (but does not give dates w/out paying) that gives a Harry Stephens in Burnley and W.Stephens in Birmingham and in Newport. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted 30 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 April , 2016 Who is the photographer? (identified lower left) this may help with location Chris I never noticed a photographer's name there before! As far as I can tell it says "H. Stephenson", and thanks to Google I learned that the place name is Otley. This link takes you to another of his photographs, with his name in exactly the same position https://www.kirklees.gov.uk/leisure/LestWeForget/pdf/yorkshire.pdf So if it's a Yorkshire photographer, does that confirm Ripon as the location? What did the Seaforths and Camerons do at Ripon - basic training? Thanks for all these helpful replies - you guys are amazing. Dunc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 May , 2016 Share Posted 1 May , 2016 Well done Dunc! But also Seaforths for spotting the 'H' and the 'St!' Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 1 May , 2016 Share Posted 1 May , 2016 Well done Dunc! But also Seaforths for spotting the 'H' and the 'St!' Trajan Hahahaha I do worry about my eyes you got more than I did and even corrected - my vision still gives me cause for concern when trying to see smaller stuff. I never noticed a photographer's name there before! As far as I can tell it says "H. Stephenson", and thanks to Google I learned that the place name is Otley. This link takes you to another of his photographs, with his name in exactly the same position https://www.kirklees.gov.uk/leisure/LestWeForget/pdf/yorkshire.pdf So if it's a Yorkshire photographer, does that confirm Ripon as the location? What did the Seaforths and Camerons do at Ripon - basic training? Thanks for all these helpful replies - you guys are amazing. Dunc Yes, Ripon it is, doing their basic training. The Seaforth Territorials were training separately up until November 1916 when they amalgamated to become 4th Seaforth Training Reserve. That the image is a mix of men from those Battalions indicates a possible time for the image being taken would be from November 1916 owards. Have you checked Find my Past and Ancestry to see if he has a surviving service record? If it isn't on one of those sites, it might be on the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 May , 2016 Share Posted 1 May , 2016 Hahahaha I do worry about my eyes you got more than I did and even corrected - my vision still gives me cause for concern when trying to see smaller stuff. ... Have you checked Find my Past and Ancestry to see if he has a surviving service record? If it isn't on one of those sites, it might be on the other. Well, your eyesight is not that bad as you got the H and the St... - I just guessed the rest (but missed the end) using that old tool we rely on a lot in deciphering incomplete Roman military inscriptions - letter spacing! I note what you say here (and elsewhere) on FMP and Ancestry - have you or anyone tried this Forces War records site? Any (printable!) comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Abbott Posted 1 May , 2016 Share Posted 1 May , 2016 There are a few men called John MacPhee/McPhee on Ancestry/FMP/FWR for the Seaforth Highlanders. John MacPhee S/21839 of the 7th Bn. who was a deserter. John McPhee. S/8292 of the 3rd Bn. but he joined in 1915 aged 30. John McPhee, 4829 and 201815 of the 4th and the 6th Bn. John McPhee, 16179 and 369175 (Labour Corps). John McPhee, 204404 of the 1st Bn. John C McPhee, S/13364 and S/41490 of the 4th Bn. John L McPhee, 204328 of the 4th Bn. and:- John McPhee, S/5392 of the 3/5th Bn. and the 4th (Reserve). He joined at Wick in July 1916, albeit at age 38, but he would appear a possible candidate (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted 3 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2016 Thanks everyone for all these helpful replies. John MacPhee is indeed the tallest man in the photo, fourth from the left in the back row. He was born in Dunvegan in the Isle of Skye on 24th June 1881 but would have been living in Glasgow in 1916. He was married to Catherine (Kate) Stewart and they had four children at that time with a fifth on the way. So far as I know, he had no middle name, just plain John MacPhee. Earlier generations spelled it MacPhie. He served in Mesopotamia and Palestine and brought home a bottle of water from the River Jordan that was used to baptise my mother a few years later. I never heard any mention of him serving anywhere else. Ron - If this helps identify which of those John MacPhees is my grandad that would be wonderful. I hope it's not the first one! But I never heard any talk within the family of desertion either. It doesn't sound like him. Dunc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted 3 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2016 I meant to say earlier - we have found no trace of his medals, nor any paperwork that would give his service number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bif Posted 3 May , 2016 Share Posted 3 May , 2016 Dunc, Do you know either of his parents name or the date he may have passed ? Those would help on Ancestry. Bif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted 3 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2016 Dunc, Do you know either of his parents name or the date he may have passed ? Those would help on Ancestry. Bif John MacPhee's father was Roderick MacPhie (1833-1897) and his mother was Marion MacRaild (c.1846-1938). John MacPhee died on September 15th, 1952. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 5 May , 2016 Admin Share Posted 5 May , 2016 Returning to this post, perhaps the other one could be locked. As we know he served with the MEF and the only Battalion that served in that theatre was the 1st so we can eliminate a fair few on Ron's list at post 32. We also know the the sequence of renumbering for the TF 200001 240000 4 Seaforth Highlanders 240001 265000 5 Seaforth Highlanders 265001 290000 6 Seaforth Highlanders (LLT) There is only one in the list who has service in the 1st Bn, that is 204404 who was previously in the 4th Bn and numbered/renumbered in March 1917 or later. He is one of a number of men with the six digit TF number in the 2044** series posted on active service to the 1st Bn. with no other unit shown in the Rolls. It’s therefore fairly safe to assume they went overseas after the renumbering and the unit first served with was the 1st Bn. One of these was 204419 (on the RE Rolls) he enlisted under the Derby Scheme in December 1915, was placed on the Army Reserve and mobilised on the 4th May 1917. He was posted to the 4th Reserve Bn embarked Devonport 23 July 1917 arriving Bombay 25 September. Although he went to Suez in 1918 he was then posted to the RE. A high degree of caution is needed as I can only find the one surviving record of those with a six digit number who were posted to the MEF, but 204404 may have followed a similar path up until Suez. There is, incidentally some correspondence on the record of another 4th Bn man in this series, but who did not go to the 1st Bn, that he was disciplined at Ripon in October 1916, which may help date the photograph. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bif Posted 5 May , 2016 Share Posted 5 May , 2016 Yes, the post in Soldiers is locked. My error. Thanks for the reply Ken. Bif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted 8 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2016 Returning to this post, perhaps the other one could be locked. As we know he served with the MEF and the only Battalion that served in that theatre was the 1st so we can eliminate a fair few on Ron's list at post 32. We also know the the sequence of renumbering for the TF 200001 240000 4 Seaforth Highlanders 240001 265000 5 Seaforth Highlanders 265001 290000 6 Seaforth Highlanders (LLT) There is only one in the list who has service in the 1st Bn, that is 204404 who was previously in the 4th Bn and numbered/renumbered in March 1917 or later. He is one of a number of men with the six digit TF number in the 2044** series posted on active service to the 1st Bn. with no other unit shown in the Rolls. It’s therefore fairly safe to assume they went overseas after the renumbering and the unit first served with was the 1st Bn. One of these was 204419 (on the RE Rolls) he enlisted under the Derby Scheme in December 1915, was placed on the Army Reserve and mobilised on the 4th May 1917. He was posted to the 4th Reserve Bn embarked Devonport 23 July 1917 arriving Bombay 25 September. Although he went to Suez in 1918 he was then posted to the RE. A high degree of caution is needed as I can only find the one surviving record of those with a six digit number who were posted to the MEF, but 204404 may have followed a similar path up until Suez. There is, incidentally some correspondence on the record of another 4th Bn man in this series, but who did not go to the 1st Bn, that he was disciplined at Ripon in October 1916, which may help date the photograph. Ken Ken- thanks for your very helpful reply. Dunc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R Posted 26 May , 2016 Share Posted 26 May , 2016 Ripon? Unsure. It may equally have been Northern Command Gas and Grenade School in Farnley Park near Otley. Is the card dated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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